402 replies to this topic

[Noobochok]

Kaeb Odellas, on 16 November 2015 - 11:31 PM, said:

IS don't have Streak 4s and 6es.

Considering those SPL FS's I've seen... They're pretty much even more broken than ACH are. Better surviability, MOAR LAZORS and now superior heat capacity.

[Vashramire]

Noobochok, on 17 November 2015 - 05:51 AM, said:

Considering those SPL FS's I've seen... They're pretty much even more broken than ACH are. Better surviability, MOAR LAZORS and now superior heat capacity.

FS are the only IS light chassis that have no movement or durability quirks. Compared to a ACH with 6 ER-SPL and ECM, a FS with 8 SPL and range mod and 10% range quirk still needs to get within 132m to do full damage and still has a smaller alpha and lower dps, has fewer JJ, and dies to losing a side torso. If you and your team let something get that close and don't punish it with its overly bulky for its tonnage silhouette then maybe it's not the mech.

Edited by Vashramire, 17 November 2015 - 08:03 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I am at work right now...

Did they activate it yet, or is it slated to become active in 2 hrs? Their wording is off... Using past-tense verb for something that's supposedly scheduled to happen later in the evening today...

[Kaeb Odellas]

Noobochok, on 17 November 2015 - 05:51 AM, said:

Considering those SPL FS's I've seen... They're pretty much even more broken than ACH are. Better surviability, MOAR LAZORS and now superior heat capacity.

You're kidding me, right? 8 SPLs do 32 damage per alpha. 6 C-SPLs do 36 damage per alpha. Same damage per heat. And don't talk to me about laser durations, as the C-SPL does the same damage per tick as the IS SPL, at 6 damage in 0.75 seconds vs 4 damage in 0.5 seconds. Plus, the C-SPL has 50% longer range. The C-SPL is basically an IS SPL with +50% added to every stat but cooldown and weight. 50% more range and 50% more damage for 50% more heat and 50% more beam duration.

Plus, the ACH has ECM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Kaeb Odellas, on 17 November 2015 - 04:02 PM, said:

You're kidding me, right? 8 SPLs do 32 damage per alpha. 6 C-SPLs do 36 damage per alpha. Same damage per heat. And don't talk to me about laser durations, as the C-SPL does the same damage per tick as the IS SPL, at 6 damage in 0.75 seconds vs 4 damage in 0.5 seconds. Plus, the C-SPL has 50% longer range. The C-SPL is basically an IS SPL with +50% added to every stat but cooldown and weight. 50% more range and 50% more damage for 50% more heat and 50% more beam duration.

Plus, the ACH has ECM.

I second this reply. ACH beats firestarter in the offense and defense categories.

[ackstorm]

Quote

What Didn't Work

One key feature that didn't test well both in metrics and player feedback was the loss of optimal laser range on non-locked targets. This feature was meant to really drive home the importance of getting targets by pressing "R" in order to further address Role and Information Warfare design pillars, but ended up falling very short of target, not only in player feedback, but in how it would change the game in general.
This feature has been pulled from further investigation and will not go into any future builds. It is a dead subject.

One of the few promising things, nipped in the butt by the whiners.


ER LL IS QUIRKS FOREVER!

Quote

What You Will See in PTS4

Absolutely nothing except further grief for me over your continued 'solution' of 'quirks'.

[Eon0574]

Still do not get the re-balance or the quirks or nerfs.

Get rid of all the quirks/nerfs. Make Clan mechs unchangeable (other than changing the omni pod with their standard weapons). Base versions used to be functional mechs or it would not be in the clan inventory.

For IS, mercs they can change and alter their mechs if they want to but within the capabilities of each mech. Just because you can put 8 er large lasers on your mech doesn't mean you should get extra quirks so that when you do this you can avoid overheating, or giving up mobility due to a smaller engine etc.

The standard variant should work how it is for what it was made to do. Any aftermarket builds should be within the means of that mech.

Standard IS mechs should be balanced with other standard IS mechs. The imbalance comes when the mercenary makes changes to the particular variant's base.

Bring in other technologies in order to combat against the clan threat. (Binary Lasrers, IS ER lasers, LAMS, NLRM, ELRM, ARROW IV etc.) MASC available to all IS mech types would be good as well. As long as the mercenary is willing to accept the circumstances (weight, danger, crit slots etc.).

Any experimental tech could be offered in new IS mech sales as a dedicated hard point until it is no longer considered experimental.

Trying to make every mech a clan mech just does not make sense. Neither is trying to make every clan mech an IS mech (or as close as possible).

Quit quirking/nerfing.

Fix hitboxes, splash damage, hit registration, ghost heat, HS functionality, ECM, map issues, allow punching and kicking, death from above (jump attacks), etc.

Sorry but clan double heat sinks should be equal to IS double heat sinks only taking up one critical slot less. Both of these should dissipate double the IS single heat sink.

Armor should be armor. Ferro Fibrous armor should be lighter but offer the same type of protection. Clan Ferro is lighter than the IS version.

I believe that you are just wasting your time and making the game more difficult to play in the long run with all of these quirks/nerfs.

Also, if your changes are to promote ease of beginner play then your efforts of info warfare are moot as the new players IMO are not going to be interested as they want quick point and shoot adventures.

As to variants; when a new mech is introduced that performs better due to tech advances etc. it is common for other builds to fall into obscurity. I mean once the M1 Abrams was upgraded it was replaced by the M1A1 which was then replaced by the M1A2 and so on.

Don't get your panties in a bunch when people stop playing mechs that are not as good as the next variant of that model.

Have a great day.

Edited by Eon Rha Saeri, 18 November 2015 - 02:29 AM.

[Eon0574]

Kaeb Odellas, on 17 November 2015 - 04:02 PM, said:

You're kidding me, right? 8 SPLs do 32 damage per alpha. 6 C-SPLs do 36 damage per alpha. Same damage per heat. And don't talk to me about laser durations, as the C-SPL does the same damage per tick as the IS SPL, at 6 damage in 0.75 seconds vs 4 damage in 0.5 seconds. Plus, the C-SPL has 50% longer range. The C-SPL is basically an IS SPL with +50% added to every stat but cooldown and weight. 50% more range and 50% more damage for 50% more heat and 50% more beam duration.

Plus, the ACH has ECM.

Prosperity Park, on 17 November 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

I second this reply. ACH beats firestarter in the offense and defense categories.

Now compare your merc build FS against a stock ACH. What does that look like?

If people don't like the downside of an XL engine don't use one.

Is this really a good example to what the DEVS are reacting? Someone's non standard build is better than my non standard build so we have to make changes? Seriously?

Edited by Eon Rha Saeri, 18 November 2015 - 03:18 AM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Eon Rha Saeri, on 18 November 2015 - 03:15 AM, said:

Now compare your merc build FS against a stock ACH. What does that look like?

If people don't like the downside of an XL engine don't use one.

Is this really a good example to what the DEVS are reacting? Someone's non standard build is better than my non standard build so we have to make changes? Seriously?

What on earth are you even talking about? Stock builds are a complete non-factor when it comes to balance because no one runs stock mechs outside of specific stock mech events. Why would you try to balance the game around builds that no one uses?

Clan XL engines are OP because they allow clan mechs to carry absurd amounts of firepower without the downside of single side torso death. Clanners like to say "at least IS pilots get a choice". Well, do you really think a single sane person would choose to use a standard engine over a Clan XL? Give up speed or firepower just to be able to"zombie" with one or two CT weapons? Nahhhh

[Alexander Garden]

PTS has just been updated with the following changes:

• QKD-4G [C]: Missile Cooldown changed from +1000% to +10% (the crazy shenanigans will be sorely missed).
• LCT-1V: Laser Range Quirk removed (Energy Range Quirk is still present).
• WVR-6K: Energy Heat Gen changed from +10% to -10%.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Alexander Garden, on 18 November 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

PTS has just been updated with the following changes:

• QKD-4G [C]: Missile Cooldown changed from +1000% to +10% (the crazy shenanigans will be sorely missed).
• LCT-1V: Laser Range Quirk removed (Energy Range Quirk is still present).
• WVR-6K: Energy Heat Gen changed from +10% to -10%.

Hahahaha, dang! I wish I had gotten the PTS downloaded yesterday... that Quickdraw sounds like hilarious fun XD

[Dagorlad13]

Kaeb Odellas, on 16 November 2015 - 11:31 PM, said:

IS don't have Streak 4s and 6es.

IS has more heat efficient weapons, though and how many Arctic Cheetahs, or Firestarters do you see running streaks?

My point is that IS has four broken light mechs that can tank better than any assault mech and the clans have one broken light mech.

Edited by IronClaws, 18 November 2015 - 04:11 PM.

[shameless]

It was, hold the trigger for 1 second on missile weapons = overheat to death. There was a bug with the srms on it as they seemed to hit each other. the ones using LRM's however, totally hilarious.

One of the other things that I think PGI should really put on the live server...

4v4 matches

and

2v2 matches.

these were great.

[Darian DelFord]

The Oxide structure and armor buffs need to be considered for the other jenners. The Oxide can actually survive a bit longer now even with the nerfed speed tweak and agility.

However the lights need to be exempt from the agility nerfs on the skill tree. Simple put our agility is our armor, and it hit them the hardest.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Awwe, how come the Wolfhound isn't available for MC in the PTS? I was just looking forward to giving those little babies a spin! T.T

[Xenon Codex]

Twilight Fenrir, on 18 November 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

Awwe, how come the Wolfhound isn't available for MC in the PTS? I was just looking forward to giving those little babies a spin! T.T

The PTS builds and user accounts are usually copied a week or two in advance of going live, so the Wolfhound wasn't available at the time of the current PTS. You'll have to wait for the next PTS (if there is one).

I do agree that we should be able to "check out" any mech available in the Store for use in the Testing Grounds before committing to a purchase. Just make them "ghost" mechs that show up in your inventory but can't be launched into a real game. You can upgrade and kit them out, but they don't consume real C-bills or modules in the Mechlab. They are basically upgraded on credit that goes away when you return it to the Store (sort of like a shopping cart). Of course they will also have a prominent "Purchase Now" button that automatically buys the mech and all the installed upgrades and components should you choose to make it yours.

I have a feeling that would be a major rework of the UI and take a lot of time for PGI to implement, but the potential increase in mech purchases might be worth it in the long run.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Xenon Codex, on 18 November 2015 - 06:21 PM, said:

The PTS builds and user accounts are usually copied a week or two in advance of going live, so the Wolfhound wasn't available at the time of the current PTS. You'll have to wait for the next PTS (if there is one).

I do agree that we should be able to "check out" any mech available in the Store for use in the Testing Grounds before committing to a purchase. Just make them "ghost" mechs that show up in your inventory but can't be launched into a real game. You can upgrade and kit them out, but they don't consume real C-bills or modules in the Mechlab. They are basically upgraded on credit that goes away when you return it to the Store (sort of like a shopping cart). Of course they will also have a prominent "Purchase Now" button that automatically buys the mech and all the installed upgrades and components should you choose to make it yours.

I have a feeling that would be a major rework of the UI and take a lot of time for PGI to implement, but the potential increase in mech purchases might be worth it in the long run.

That sounds a little complicated... But I would love to see some way to try before buy added in... Especially on Hero mechs.. but I don't know how they'd do it.

[Kaeb Odellas]

IronClaws, on 18 November 2015 - 04:09 PM, said:

IS has more heat efficient weapons, though and how many Arctic Cheetahs, or Firestarters do you see running streaks?

My point is that IS has four broken light mechs that can tank better than any assault mech and the clans have one broken light mech.

Streak Crows. They are a hard counter to IS lights and smaller mediums, and can rough up heavier targets too if the Crow can hit and fade. The IS has no equivalent.

And it doesn't matter how many lights the IS might be able to field. The only lights worth bringing on the IS lights are 35 tonners. Spiders and Commandos lack punch, Urbies lack speed, and Locusts are Locusts. The ACH is a 30 ton mech that outperforms most IS 35 tonners.

As far as heat efficiency goes, Clan weapons are far more weight-efficient than the IS counterparts, so there has to be a tradeoff. Clan ER-SLs are actually more heat efficient than the IS SL, and Clan SPLs are equivalent to IS SPLs in damage per heat but far better in DPS and range. Both are superior in almost every conceivable metric. Clan ERML and MPLs are more equivalent to IS LLs than their mediums.

The only saving grace the IS has are their ridiculous quirks. And they're only ridiculous because PGI never bothered to try balancing IS and Clan tech at all. Or at least did a very poor job of it.

[Nehkrosis]

the Catapult is a somewhat IS equivalent to the StreakCrow, no?
or maybe the Kintaro?
or you could build a StreakHawk 2d2?

[Bacon Wan Kenobi]

The problem is that IS is limited to Streak-2s. Having the -4 and -6 versions is the major difference.