63 replies to this topic

[metro]

I would like to know if the Devs have seen and read Shadows original post, and what their thoughts and Ideas are about MWO having a dual Identity.

I would like those that want to 4v4 all day to be able to do that, for whomever they choose.

I would like those that want to plan , strategize, and control jumpships and economies to be able to do that as well.

I think everyone can co-exist in MWO, we just need the devs to make it happen. =) Purrrtyyy please...Bryan!!!

[Punk KMSD]

ShadowStar, nice nic, used to have that one..decades ago, when screens were green and black and the modems made shrill noises.

I've seen all those dev docs, have quite a few too, most of mine are the EA era tho and I wonder how they are different from yours.

I think gamers wants something more fast paced then what is in those docs, back when they came out they would have fit in well with the games of the time. It's like, that Battletech is Chess, but nowadays people are all about Checkers. Some of those ideas just won't translate well, or if they even are translatable, to fit to the tastes of todays gamers. Alot of that stuff was made for Armchair Generals. All the supply line stuff makes me kinda shudder. "Our supply line is cut and we are out of Medium lasors!" "Good thing I'm piloting this Jav-F..oh..wait..I'm a walking target with no weapons...well...crap."

I do, however, really like the Planetary Hex system and think, with a little tweeking, that would work well for a modern MMO. There are some really good ideas one can cherry pick from those documents.

*kicks Metro because he's Metro*

[metro]

....and taking the best of both worlds, and the MWO Dev's keeping both sides of the Innersphere busy doing what both sides like to do is what I think will aide them in becoming short term successful and providing themselves long term stability. If the warriors get to fight, they are happy, if the strategizers get to plan they are happy. Its a win win for everyone.

[Shadowstarr]

Punk[KMSD], on 05 December 2011 - 03:03 AM, said:

ShadowStar, nice nic, used to have that one..decades ago, when screens were green and black and the modems made shrill noises. I've seen all those dev docs, have quite a few too, most of mine are the EA era tho and I wonder how they are different from yours. I think gamers wants something more fast paced then what is in those docs, back when they came out they would have fit in well with the games of the time. It's like, that Battletech is Chess, but nowadays people are all about Checkers. Some of those ideas just won't translate well, or if they even are translatable, to fit to the tastes of todays gamers. Alot of that stuff was made for Armchair Generals. All the supply line stuff makes me kinda shudder. "Our supply line is cut and we are out of Medium lasors!" "Good thing I'm piloting this Jav-F..oh..wait..I'm a walking target with no weapons...well...crap." I do, however, really like the Planetary Hex system and think, with a little tweeking, that would work well for a modern MMO. There are some really good ideas one can cherry pick from those documents.

the docs i pulled from are from the latest 3025 and not EGA 3025. Keep in mind this was the original design and not what made it to beta. Story too long, boring, and sad to tell on how it got from the original vision to what was out for beta.

Line of supply wasn't to work that way in 3025. Basic if your unit is in supply you'd be able to choose any mech from those you have available to you for the battle. If a unit it not in supply they drop into combat with some minor damage as a handicap. Further more if a player loses a mech while out of supply then that mech is temporary unavailable to the player until he is back in supply. If a player remained out of supply and keep loses mechs eventual he'll be done to that last mech. At that point the out of supply player no long loses access to the last mech. Of course once a unit got back in supply the player's full mech list is available.

-SS

[GargoyleKDR]

EGG, on 04 December 2011 - 07:02 AM, said:

I'm curious, how similar was the original MPBT to these mechanics? How exactly do REG/BGD officer appointments get decided?

It was similar in most things, but the planetary capture mechanics were more involved, and the scale was bigger in 3025.

MPBT Chain of command (Davion example):

The House is setup in a pyramid type structure. The House
Leader is head guy. Next comes the XO. Below the XO are
5 March Commanders. Each March Commander has 3 PDZ
(Polymorphous Defense Zone) Commanders with the exception
of one for a total of 14 PDZ Cmdrs. Each PDZ Cmdr has
from 2-4 units under his command, a total of 33 units.
Each unit is commanded by a unit COS (Chief of Staff). A
unit consists of up to 12 'Mechwarriors setup in 3 lances.

2.A.2. Davion Unit Listing

Below is a list of the overall structure for House Davion.
There is a space provided for you to fill in the current
commanders. The unit ratings are: G = Green, R = Regular,
V = Veteran, E = Elite. The HQ planets are where members
join the unit.


House Leader:
House XO :

Commanders: HQ Planet:
Inner Draconis March (6 Units)

Addicks PDZ
V - 3rd Crucis Lancers RCT Caph
V - 2nd Davion Guards RCT Formalhaut

Clovis PDZ
R - 8th Crucis Lancers RCT New Rhodes III
G - Clovis DMM Cartago

Raman PDZ
E - 4th Davion Guards RCT Deshler
V - 1st Chisholm's Raiders RCT Royal


Outer Draconis March (7 Units)

Robinson PDZ
V - 1st Robinson Rangers Robinson
V - Kell Hounds Robinson
G - 3rd NAIS Cadet Cadre Tarkio

Dahar PDZ
R - 17th Avalon Hussars RCT Cassias
V - 1st Ceti Hussars RCT Glenmora

Bryceland PDZ
V - 1st Crucis Lancers RCT Tancredi IV
R - 11th Avalon Hussars RCT Kesai IV


Inner Capellan March (8 Units)

Valexa PDZ
V - 20th Avalon Hussars RCT New Aragon
V - 1st Aragon Borderers New Aragon
V - 6th Crucis Lancers RCT Moravian

Kathil PDZ
V - 5th Crucis Lancers RCT Kathil
V - 2nd Chisholm's Raiders Kathil
G - Kathil CMM Kathil

Alcyone PDZ
R - 5th Syrtis Fusiliers RCT Kittery
R - 1st Kittery Borderers Kittery


Outer Capellan March (4 Units)

New Syrtis PDZ
G - New Syrtis CMM New Syrtis
E - 6th Syrtis Fusiliers RCT New Syrtis

Sirdar PDZ
V - Davion Assault Guards RCT Frazer
R - 3rd Ceti Hussars RCT Immenstadt


Crucis March (8 Units)

Kestrel Combat Region
R - Kestrel CMM Kestrel
V - Eridani Light Horse Colchester

New Avalon Combat Region
E - 1st Davion Guards RCT New Avalon
E - Davion Heavy Guards RCT New Avalon
R - New Avalon CMM New Avalon
E - Team Banzai New Avalon

Broken Wheel Combat Region
G - 1st Albion Training Cadre Morven
R - 1st Argyle Lancers Broken Wheel

2.C.1. Davion Military

Ranks Abbreviations Training 'Mech
Qual.
------- ----------- -------- -----

1 Private Pvt. Lights -
2 Sergeant Sgt. - Lights
3 Sergeant Major Sgt.Maj. Mediums Mediums
4 Subaltern Subalt. - "
5 Leftenant Lft. Heavies Heavies
6 Captain Capt. - "
7 Major Maj. - "
8 2nd Major (internal) 2nd Maj. - "
9 Leftenant Colonel Lft.Col. Assaults Assaults
10 Colonel Col. - "
11 Leftenant General Lft.Gen. - "
12 Major General Maj.Gen. - "

Note: The promotions for ranks 1 - 9 are automatic and your promo bar
automatically resets. The promotion cycle for the senior officers
(Col., Lft.Gen., Maj.Gen.) is run every Monday and Thursday and you will
only be promoted to those ranks at that time. You need to meet the
minimum house position to achieve these ranks (Unit COS for Colonel,
PDZ/Combat Region for Lft.Gen., March for Maj.Gen.).

2nd Major is an internal rank and is reached at approximately 45% of the
full bar on your Major rank. The only way of knowing when you made 2nd
Major is if you receive a pay raise to 1250 C-Bills.

To check on your status of promotion, select the personal button and
choose Personal Status option.


Planetary Capture in MPBT was based on percentage of planetary ownership. When one side had 60% of the planetary points they owned the planet. The oppostion could still continue to try to win points by winning combat missions (all of it was PVE). Each mission dropped had a point value associated with it. Win, and you got those points added to your side's total. When your side got to 100% ownership the enemy was kicked off the planet. They would have to re-assault the planet in order to attempt to capture it.

Supply lines were based on planetary ownership. If you owned the planet (60% ownership) you opened up the supply line to the next planet(s). If your side lost ownership of a planet your supply line would be cut, and you'd have to run without resupply or fall back to the previous planet in the supply line. Running without supply meant you risked going into combat with a damaged mech.

- Garg.

[GargoyleKDR]

MBPT info on Planetary Balance:

4.A. PLANETARY BALANCE

4.A.1. What is PB?

Planetary Balance (PB) is shown as a pie chart with each
attacking house having a slice of the pie. Battles are
fought on the planet to increase your slice of the pie.
When Your slice reaches 60%, you own the city and have
supply to the next planet in line. This also cuts any
supply forward on your opponents supply line. You need
to take 100% to fully own the planet and thus overrun
enemy lances there.

If another house is running as your ally during the
assault, then the planet becomes the property of the
house that originally assaulted it. Ex: Liao assaults
Deiron. We then assault Deiron, as Liao's ally (this
is an option on the planet assault window). Two hours
later, we own 45% of PB, and Liao owns 16% (total: 61%).
Liao now owns the planet (they were the original House
to assault).

A note on assaults: Do not assault a planet unless you
have your PDZ Cmdr or above concurrence. The PB shift
needed for successful assaults requires large lance
movements to accomplish. When an assault is needed, find
a PDZ Cmdr or higher online to do it for you.

4.A.2. Facts on PB

- Each lance landed on the planet receives 500 points
towards PB, when it arrives. This is immediate. Your
house can accumulate 20% (16,000 PB points of a possible
80,000 PB points total) this way. Every lance landed
after the 32th adds to the Force Balance, but not the PB.

If you move a lance to a planet and the PB moves up, it is
because your side does not have 16,000pts worth of the
planet due to occupation, even if the PB chart shows you
owning more than 20% of the pie! The reason for this is
because the pie chart (for PB) is only a ratio of planet
ownership not the total 80,000 points. This is why you
should check actual number of lances on planet, friend
and foe.

- If the mission leader (senior ranked 'Mechwarrior in the
mission) ejects for any reason, no planetary points are
earned for that mission. Personal promo points are earned
as long as you personally stay alive. Also, the original
mission contract obtainer need not be present to earn PB
or other points.

This brings us to Force Balance.

4.B. FORCE BALANCE

4.B.1. What is FB?

Force Balance (FB) is a measure of the relative strength
of a house's military force on a planet as compared to
the other houses forces there. Only military Unit COS's,
unit XO's, PDZ CO's, March CO's, House XO and HL can use
the Force Balance display.

FB gives a modifier to the Planet Balance (PB) points
earned per mission. So if you have 3 lances there
(1500pts) and they have 1 (500pts), you will see the FB
pie chart showing 75% yellow! (3 to 1 = 75%).

Say you run a mission worth 100 PB points, and you have 3
times as much FB as your opponent (75% FB). You would
actually receive 300 PB points for that mission. This is
a basic comparison. There are more numbers involved but
this is the main idea. The maximum FB modifier is 5x.

4.B.2. FB vs. the lance length of time on planet

Each lance has a set amount of force points it
contributes, depending on length of time on the planet
(Right now, all of the lances are treated as regular for
FB. Kelton is planning on implementing a unit rating
scale to show the relative effectivness of each unit,
according to it's rating: i.e. Green, Regular, Veteran,
Elite = 3,5,7,10 pts.).

The ratio for the time on planet effect is:

0-12 hrs: 50% of full value
12-24 hrs: 67% "
24+ hrs: 100% "

4.B.3. Effects of overrun lances

Lances on a planet can be overrun. Lances are overrun
when an enemy captures a planet where your lances are,
thus moving the PB to 100% (Friendly) in their favor.
This means that your lances no longer add FB, nor can
they be used to acquire missions. They must be moved
off planet to a Davion owned planet. No assaulting
can be done with overrun lances. After being moved to
a Davion owned planet, the lance may then be moved to
the planet in question, or another planet all together.
They will act as normal lances after the initial movement
off of the planet in which they were overrun.

4.B.4. Further info on FB

- The Force Balance pie chart display shows the true
ratio of FB on the planet. Along with this, a list of
lance names is shown. At best, only the first 40 lances
are listed, any others are not. Rely on the pie chart for
an accurate idea of forces present.

- Merc lances add to the FB depending on their makeup and
show on the FB pie chart. The lance names, however, do
not show on the listing of lances.

- If you move lances to a planet, and there are no enemy
units there, the FB pie chart will not change color until
you take the city (60% PB). Then it will turn all your
color (no forces to weigh your balance against).

- When running missions on a planet, the types of 'Mechs
that you will face are drawn from the makeup of enemy
lances stationed there.

- When you run missions on a planet that has no active
enemy lances present, you will face the eight standard
'Mech types: Locust-1V, Jenner-7D, Phoenix Hawk-1,
Shadow Hawk-2H, Rifleman-3N, Warhammer-6R, Marauder-3R,
and Battlemaster-1G.

- The planetary combat stage generally depends on the
number of friendly lances present as follows. This is
an approximate list:

0 lances - 100% owned = Friendly/Hostile
1 lance - Civil Unrest
2-5 lances - Guerilla Warfare
6-9 lances - Minor Military Actions
10+ lances - Open Warfare

This effects what type of missions will be available to
you. For example with Civil Unrest, only one and two
droid missions will be offered. With Open Warfare up to
four droids per mission are available and usually are
worth much more towards planetary capture (PB).

Even with less than 10 friendly lances present, you can
reach v4 missions after bringing the PB more into your
favor through successful missions.

[GargoyleKDR]

MPBT info on Supply Lines:

4.C. SUPPLY LINES

4.C.1. How to use the Supply Line display

Supply lines can be used for strategic goals on which
route to take to a specific enemy target. You must be a
Unit COS or XO or higher to utilize this option. It is
found under Command Options. Remember that supply lines
are dynamic and can change when planets are lost and
gained.

The current Supply Line display is a basic display. The
Supply Dept. sometimes gives out incorrect info. Many
commanders prefer to use the Planetary Balance display to
tell whether planets are in supply or not. When you
select a planet on the PB screen, note the info on whether
there is supply to that world or not.

The second use of the Supply line function is to check
which planets have supply or are cut off. If a planet has
supply, all the unit and mission 'Mechs will be fully
operational. If supply is cut to the planet, mission and
unit 'Mechs will have varying levels of damage, denoting
the lack of spare parts. The supply lines connecting the
planet in question all the way back to the house capital
show supplied planets. Any planets without a supply line
shown to them are unsupplied.

Note: You can make armor repairs even on an unsupplied
planet.

There are two ways of dealing with this situation:

1) Suggest/Organize a plan to quickly retake the planets
needed for supply lines, either online or on the Davion
BB. This is the preferred method.

or:

2) Run missions there anyway with damaged 'Mechs (or you
may bring your personal 'Mech also) but in either case,
only armor can be repaired while out of supply.

One way to overcome this is to store parts on forward
planets. Commanders can store extra parts on forward,
unsupplied planets.

[metro]

bump...cuz Im waiting for the DEVS to pick up on this.

[xMarshallx]

Metro, on 05 December 2011 - 03:28 PM, said:

bump...cuz Im waiting for the DEVS to pick up on this.

Metro, I'm thinking a good way to approach this may be to reach out to each house, hold a brainstorming session over IRC/vent and compile a list of game play mechanics(both game play and strategic) that the MPBT community feels could make a positive impact for release and present them to the development team if they would be willing to take a look at them. I may be speaking out of line, but if we take the time and energy to present a document of significant substance that we as an entire community feel strongly about, the dev's may take credence in the message and ideas we have compiled that can make an MW:O enjoyable based on our past experience.

[metro]

Agreed Sniper, but I do Believe as we speak, Garth the community liason from PGI is trolling about. I do know from discussions, he does take items like this to the devs.

BUT, I agree, we need anyone and everyone that this particular topic agrees with, to make their voice heard, and the devs take heed.

MWO has to go the broad route, narrow streets will get them no where for long term.

broad base, means years, decades of $$$$$$$$$$ for them

Edited by Metro, 05 December 2011 - 03:57 PM.

[xMarshallx]

Metro, on 05 December 2011 - 03:57 PM, said:

Agreed Sniper, but I do Believe as we speak, Garth the community liason from PGI is trolling about. I do know from discussions, he does take items like this to the devs.

BUT, I agree, we need anyone and everyone that this particular topic agrees with, to make their voice heard, and the devs take heed.

MWO has to go the broad route, narrow streets will get them no where for long term.

broad base, means years, decades of $$$$$$$$$$ for them

Aye, I know we have PGI employees lurking all suggestions, however, they cannot possibly keep track of every thread and every post. The best idea ever to have been stated may simply be overlooked. This is why I am suggesting we compile our thoughts and have one concentrated effort instead of several different agendas and lay out everything from A to Z for our "vision" and offer it as food for thought for the dev team.

[metro]

Yes sir, Snipes! ya have a great idea. Such as the Survey that was done. Compiling info for PGI will help them immensely.

What ya need to do is figure out how to compile, where to compile, and how to deliver that compilation it to Vancouver!


Or if Bryan and the Devs would activate a CHAT SYSTEM online, and name a night to chat with us, Moderated of course, then that may help them along....as well.

Edited by Metro, 05 December 2011 - 04:08 PM.

[xMarshallx]

I think a compilation process of "our" ideas will require 3 separate events taking place.

1) Getting the word out and inviting folks. Ensuring we have reps from each houses CoC as it was when EA dissolved MPBT is almost a must as well. I know there was ISW but a lot of figure heads who can provide a ton of insight did not take the ISW bait - obviously some of those members are MIA or no longer with us, but the more the merrier.

2) Creating a list of items to address in the meeting. The sheer volume of various topics to discuss can be overwhelming so having an agenda prior to holding this "meeting" would benefit everyone instead of wasting time thinking of the topics during the meeting. There will be a player run website up soon and maybe the topic suggestions can be done there via post submission. I will post the link once it's established and functional.

3) Holding the meeting. With the technology today we could host it via IRC, Ventrilo or Skype(Depending on the number of participants.) IRC would be the best simply because a copy/paste can be done at the conclusion of the meeting and with a few volunteers we can take the minutes of the meeting and form it into a structured document to be presented to the developers.

Just tossing ideas out at this point, feel free to offer input/advice

[metro]

maybe an MWO = Chat system online, so the Devs can host,moderate and talk this all over with us.

[Shadowstarr]

The Sniper, on 05 December 2011 - 04:30 PM, said:

I think a compilation process of "our" ideas will require 3 separate events taking place.

1) Getting the word out and inviting folks. Ensuring we have reps from each houses CoC as it was when EA dissolved MPBT is almost a must as well. I know there was ISW but a lot of figure heads who can provide a ton of insight did not take the ISW bait - obviously some of those members are MIA or no longer with us, but the more the merrier.

2) Creating a list of items to address in the meeting. The sheer volume of various topics to discuss can be overwhelming so having an agenda prior to holding this "meeting" would benefit everyone instead of wasting time thinking of the topics during the meeting. There will be a player run website up soon and maybe the topic suggestions can be done there via post submission. I will post the link once it's established and functional.

3) Holding the meeting. With the technology today we could host it via IRC, Ventrilo or Skype(Depending on the number of participants.) IRC would be the best simply because a copy/paste can be done at the conclusion of the meeting and with a few volunteers we can take the minutes of the meeting and form it into a structured document to be presented to the developers.

Just tossing ideas out at this point, feel free to offer input/advice

While I am all for the chats and gathering of data for a organized feature wishlist, I would suggest you guys don't bother with authoring a document to submit. I seriously doubt PGI would legally accept such a document. I offered to give them everything I got regarding MPBT and I got a response saying they can't accept external documentation. I suggest we produce our efforts here on the forums.

What ever you all want to do I feel it should be done soon as possible. Summer is coming and all,

-SS

Edited by Shadowstarr, 06 December 2011 - 09:30 AM.

[Kyll Long]

Shadowstarr, on 06 December 2011 - 09:29 AM, said:

While I am all for the chats and gathering of data for a organized feature wishlist, I would suggest you guys don't bother with authoring a document to submit. I seriously doubt PGI would legally accept such a document. I offered to give them everything I got regarding MPBT and I got a response saying they can't accept external documentation. I suggest we produce our efforts here on the forums.

What ever you all want to do I feel it should be done soon as possible. Summer is coming and all,

-SS

Im saving any further comments till we see what comes out tomorrow. I'm hoping we get the first substantial info in a general way at least as far as what they envision. I'm just trying to figure out if I'm wasting my time here or not. With no real info just community speculation it gets a bit discouraging.

[xMarshallx]

Shadowstarr, on 06 December 2011 - 09:29 AM, said:

While I am all for the chats and gathering of data for a organized feature wishlist, I would suggest you guys don't bother with authoring a document to submit. I seriously doubt PGI would legally accept such a document. I offered to give them everything I got regarding MPBT and I got a response saying they can't accept external documentation. I suggest we produce our efforts here on the forums.

What ever you all want to do I feel it should be done soon as possible. Summer is coming and all,

-SS

We always retain the ability to collaborate our thoughts through outside communication and have a general spokesperson make a single thread on behalf of the MPBT community who wishes to have our voices heard. This may be the best approach after some points you brought to light.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

While I like your ideas I'm not sure how much general support it would have these days. I put up a poll to see in a general way what people think.

[Hodo]

Cyttorak, on 04 December 2011 - 11:04 AM, said:

The organization is impressive, but could be restrictive for some players. I would hope something similar will be adopted for the Houses, but left more informal for Merc Corps. Oh, and I don't think promotions should be quite as player-driven for the houses.
Another thing: seems the more successful a player is, the more they promote themselves out of action. Don't know if I like that, and it may not work at all for MWO since we don't know the depth of the meta-game.

That was the point. To FORCE people to work as nations. Unlike most other games where everyone wants to be a hero instead of doing their job to achieve victory.

Not to say there were "mercs" who did go to a merc faction. But they had to achieve a pretty high rep in a house FIRST before they could leave. Thus were experienced players not some greenhorn off the street, who doesnt know his PPC from a Gyro.

I am against 4 million merc units and a handful of house units. And if there are clans there needs to be a restriction, NO MERCS. Clans do not use them or tolerate them.

[Kyll Long]

I'm all for mercs. HAving said that if you want to be a merc you have to put up wth merc issues. Negotiating contracts etc. MErcs are not the core fo the BT universe. Houses are. Thems the facts.