224 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

Working as comp teams intended.

If you are not on a comp team, you are expected to run screaming in terror from CW. Some of them actually like the stomps.

Comp team vs comp team event was a one-shot that PGI seems to not want to repeat, attempts were made.

[Lazor Sharp]

solo's got the solo q

and then the puggies want to make the group q 4 mans only...

They they want to make CW that was MADE For 12 man TEAMS conform to them as well

THEY WANT IT ALL....!!!!

well you cant have it all......

I do not under stand why some players insist upon being Baby Seals and Stray Cats baddie's and refuse to coordinate and play as a TEAM in a F'in TEAM BASED GAME.....!!!!!!

they refuse to join a unit, and learn how not to be Baby Seals and Stray Cats......so they get the stomping they deserve......

but they got to have their Baby Seals and Stray Cats BS in every game mode so they can whine about large groups and the 12 man boogeyman......

newbies need every incentive possible to join a unit first thing and NEVER EVER learn how to be Baby Seals and Stray Cat baddies to start with.......

and because PGI has Never made it easy to be A Team with all the tools, we now have this Puglandia Attitude that is ruining this TEAM BASED GAME for the real Units / Teams .........!!!!!

[Aeromaxout]

I would like to point out that if there were both group cues and solo cues in CW, there would also be groups synk-dropping into CW. The nature of the matchmaker makes it so that a cue first gets filled, then waits 10 minutes for an opposing team. This means that all an organized group need do is cue up at the same time.

I also point out that CW is a harsh grind of a game. Yes, a pug group can take on a 12 man, but not an IS pug VS a Clan 12. Proposed fix (1): If you have a tag ([UNIT] PILOT_NAME), you are IS. If not affiliated, you are Clan. This should include a special CW-Trial drop deck (good load outs with all efficiency unlocked).

Proposed Fix (2): Add more diverse game modes. 4v4, 8v8, 24v24, etc. Ideas include convoy defense, land capturing, asset defense/denial, and sneak attack (have the defenders think they are playing one mode, and the attackers have a different target to destroy). This diversity of game-play would add room for pugs to thrive in other areas of the CW game play.

Then again, I'm also the pilot who things that Mechs should be able to walk through reinforced walls... so there is that.

[Sandpit]

Quote

[color=#959595]Proposed Fix (2): Add more diverse game modes. 4v4, 8v8, 24v24, etc. Ideas include convoy defense, land capturing, asset defense/denial, and sneak attack (have the defenders think they are playing one mode, and the attackers have a different target to destroy). This diversity of game-play would add room for pugs to thrive in other areas of the CW game play[/color]

One of the best ideas on the issue and something many in the community have begged for and suggested over the years. This would help a lot and give those solo and "casual" players more niches to help fill within CW without forcing teams to give up the one and only mode dedicated to them.

A progressive mission system for planetary drops along with varying weight and drop deck restrictions based on the mission type would be a simple way to add a lot of diversity to force composition as well as mechs used.

[Clownwarlord]

Sandpit, on 16 November 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

I'd like to point out that the video you just posted is from CB, 3 years ago? (possibly 2) and was changed within months of that video being played at the launch party.

If you're going to drag up "evidence" I'd suggest you not use promotional powerpoint presentations made at the "launch" party several years ago.

That was launch event so technically out of close beta.

As for out dated evidence then show me something up to date.

**************
The only thing I have been trying to suggest is my own opinion that 12 mans ruin game play for pugs. Which in my opinion it is true because of unbalanced matches. This is why I suggest CW have a match making system to put groups against groups more so than pugs vs groups**. PGI has come out and stated that they will not do this because it will lengthen the wait time to get a match (evidence in previous town halls you go look it up) which I can agree with. BUT with the coming steam launch (which hopefully will increase CW population) and CW Phase 3 (which hopefully will increase CW population) I would like them to revisit the idea of a match maker for CW if the population does increase enough. Feel free to disagree but again at no point have you or any of you who do disagree pointed out anything remotely tangible that CW is suppose to be unbalanced matches and an unbalanced game mode.

I agree there are things that a pug can do to alleviate the issue of getting stomped by 12 mans which I address in:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4579268

I would like to point out the date on the thread I reference ... [color=#A4A4A4]Jul 22 2015[/color]

**On that point groups vs pug still can happen, but it hopefully is cut down.

Edited by clownwarlord, 16 November 2015 - 12:33 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

Jun Watarase, on 15 November 2015 - 04:38 AM, said:

Competitive players dont enjoy free wins and pubs dont enjoy rigged matches either. When every match ends in the 12 man team spawn camping the pub team with a 3 or 4 to 1 kill ratio, where is the fun?

You are totally wrong about that. Just one example from a (in)famous MMO: In WoW premades farmed pugs in battlegrounds. On the forum they said: Awwww we would like to play other premades. We do not enjoy pug stomping. (sounda familiar, doesn't it?). In reality they even employed scouts to avoid other premades. When rated BGs were introduced the premade queue was dead.

Now to MWO: why do you think Russ called out premades for avoid fighting other premades? I think we all know the answer.

Imo that is also the reason why the queues should be seperated in CW.

[Wildstreak]

Lazor Sharp, on 16 November 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

They they want to make CW that was MADE For 12 man TEAMS conform to them as well

Actually, no, CW was never intended for 12 mans only by PGI, that was a pushed attitude by comps onto PGI.

[Ghogiel]

clownwarlord, on 16 November 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

That was launch event so technically out of close beta.

As for out dated evidence then show me something up to date.

"To re-emphasis what has been mentioned before. Community Warfare is primarily directed to role-playing and unit gameplay." Russ Bullock ooops Paul Inouye

Edited by Ghogiel, 16 November 2015 - 12:58 PM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Ghogiel, on 16 November 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

"To re-emphasis what has been mentioned before. Community Warfare is primarily directed to meta-playing and unit gameplay." Russ Bullock

FTFY

Nobody can call anything about CW (or the game in general) "role-playing". It's a battletech game but any "role-playing" is done on TS. Certainly nothing in the actual game supports it.

[Ghogiel]

cdlord, on 16 November 2015 - 12:59 PM, said:

Certainly nothing in the actual game supports it.

What, you want more than being able to pick your oh so meaningful faction?

[CDLord HHGD]

Ghogiel, on 16 November 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

What, you want more than being able to pick your oh so meaningful faction?

Who is this "Hanse" people keep talking about?

[Aresye]

clownwarlord, on 16 November 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

The only thing I have been trying to suggest is my own opinion that 12 mans ruin game play for pugs.

But they DON'T.

I JUST started playing on my F2P alt about a month ago. It's now T2 and I own 3 TDRs and 3 RVNs, but at the beginning I played CW to get the extra CBills, so I had to take a few IS trial mechs as I played for Davion.

So with 2 non-elited TDRs and 2 IS trial mechs, I dropped in multiple CW matches, frequently ending up on 100% solo teams against large groups of Clan Wolf players, including KCom and MS.

And nearly every single match I had more than DOUBLE the amount of damage and kills as the next highest player. In many of these games if there was just ONE more player that could pull similar numbers, we would have won.

I've watched players like psychih0lic rally pug teams and carry so freaking hard they would give a 10-12man of MS I'd be running with a run for our money, often ending the match with a very close score.

There's no excuse. Stop trying to blame groups. The #1 reason why solo players end up getting stomped by large premades isn't because the level of coordination on the premade's side is THAT much better. No, the reason why so many solo players end up getting stomped by large premades is because the solo players themselves suck something fierce, while they ignore VOIP to go run off and do their own thing, hiding in the back trying to launch LRMs and generally contributing a big fat 0% to the team.

[Kin3ticX]

Some players are just not cut out for CW

There is a process and some players dont want to deal with it. They are doing everything they can to avoid the process or handicap themselves

[Mystere]

Wildstreak, on 16 November 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

Working as comp teams intended.

If you are not on a comp team, you are expected to run screaming in terror from CW. Some of them actually like the stomps.

Comp team vs comp team event was a one-shot that PGI seems to not want to repeat, attempts were made.

Scream in terror? I think this guy has other ideas:

[Felicitatem Parco]

I pugged CW all weekend. By myself, not even grouping in client or using any VOIP.

Won 75% of matches, even with 12 pugs against mixtures of premade and pugs. Even beat a 10man + 2 solos with my 12 pug army.

It's not all that bad when enough players are in the queue. We need an event every weekend, or just bump the rewards higher. This weekend was the first time EVER that I was not disappointed by long wait times, and I never felt stomped.

[Mystere]

Wildstreak, on 16 November 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

Actually, no, CW was never intended for 12 mans only by PGI, that was a pushed attitude by comps onto PGI.

CW was intended primarily for organized groups, not exclusively for them.

[Ted Wayz]

CW is bad and people are arguing about PUGs being the queue? Really?

And show me where PGI stated they didn't want PUGs in CW. The statement belongs to misguided players, not PGI.

CW could be great. CW could work for all group sizes and actually introduce role warfare. But instead we have this horrible unimaginative mess and people argue about who should play it? No one should play it in its current state.

[Revis Volek]

bLeeat, on 16 November 2015 - 05:02 AM, said:

again your just a noob who conformed to the noob way of playing mwo. but for new players who dont wanna join a group or join a TS,to have a decent matched game, what do they do? i have to join people on a third party program to have a decent game? i have to deal with listening to babble from "pros" who only play cheese?

Maybe taking all this whine you have over to some cheese would be a WINNING combination...

cry more dude.

[TWIAFU]

clownwarlord, on 16 November 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

**************
The only thing I have been trying to suggest is my own opinion that 12 mans ruin game play for pugs. Which in my opinion it is true because of unbalanced matches. This is why I suggest CW have a match making system to put groups against groups more so than pugs vs groups**.

While I respect your opinion, just a couple comments...

So, 12man premades ruin it for pugs in CW. 1% of the population, 1 game out of 100 during non events. This is right from PGI about 12mans, think we all can agree that number has not gone up during non event times.

That means 12mans ruin Group queue.

What is the solution? Get the PUGS to team up? End 12mans? PUGS will not team up in any means necessary for teamplay. That leaves ending 12mans. Will have to face the inevitability that 10mans will be next boogeyman. Then 8? How far do Groups and Units have to be nerf'd, in the group and unit centric part of the game, by people that do not play in groups or units so they will be happy?

Smaller Groups now have extra tonnage over the 12man. Have the tools they asked for to face 12mans. All of that, just to fight the boogeyman. Just for the 99% to face the 1%. What other tools are they not using that the 12man has? It is Teamwork, Leadership, and Coordination.

People will play CW when they are bribed to. If there were meaningful rewards to playing CW all the time, we would not have the problem of people going to CW for low hanging fruit when they are not ready, not prepared, and just want their toys so they can go home.

What we need is for CW to have meaning. Have reward all the time, not just some weekends on some months. With CW having meaning and reward for playing, solo and Group/Unit w/ emphasis on Group/Unit, we will have far mor Groups and Units playing.

[FaithBombCRNA]

Part of the problem here is that the "12 man or PUG" binary choice is fallacious. 12 mans RARELY account for the imbalanced seal-clubbing matches. Most of the time it's 8-mans or 6-mans, etc. The skill gap is SO massive that a 6 or 8 man tips the scale just as badly as a 12-man. Hell, in most of the matches I've been in this weekend, a FOUR-man is enough to guarantee a curbstomp. Because that 4/6/8 man is usually made up on T1's and T2's running mastered meta mechs, while the pug side is full of T4's and T3's running trial mechs or the craptastic builds that they run in the solo queue.

There needs to be some kind of balancing. Problem is, there aren't enough people to make it work, and the 200 people that normally play CW try their absolute hardest to keep the "bads" from suggesting any changes to their super-1337 playground of skillz.