198 replies to this topic

[Lyoto Machida]

Aurihalcon, on 16 November 2015 - 07:56 PM, said:

Looks real good to me!

Say uh, when can we see the whole aesthetic update (where different weapons are visible depending on what's equipped) for stalkers? I love me my stalkers...

If you really love Stalkers as you say, you'll wish they never do the aesthetic "update" to that chassis...

[DarthHias]

People complaining about what frigging page shows up first after the match...

ITS NO DIFFERENCE

Yeah you heard me. Is there anyone not checking BOTH PAGES???

[Kai Allard Liao]

AdamBaines, on 17 November 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:

Again, astonished by the self centered attitude of people. "Me, me me, my needs my needs my needs, screw everyone else". Guess I should not be.....

Brainless *ssh*l*

UndeadEdd, on 17 November 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

Nice points about the "other people's needs", Karl Marx, but this isn't a real-life situation. This is just a computer game. People should not consider "other people's needs" because, guess what, those people can also have their "needs" fulfilled, without forcing everyone to play their game mode. Your comment makes no sense at all. How were "other people's needs" compromised before this enforcement method? Why should some people be forced to play game modes they don't want? Does it make sense that a person would come to a basketball game and be forced to play football instead while being told, "don't worry, after a few games you'll be able to force the others to play basketball".

True Words !

[Ninjah]

DarthHias, on 18 November 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

People complaining about what frigging page shows up first after the match...

ITS NO DIFFERENCE

Yeah you heard me. Is there anyone not checking BOTH PAGES???

Of course people don't check both pages, it's sooo obvious there are two, those buttons really stand out. I for one didn't know there were Player Stats till I accidentally clicked on it, about a year after I started playing.

Edited by Ninjah, 18 November 2015 - 02:09 PM.

[AdamBaines]

Kai Allard Liao, on 18 November 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

Brainless *ssh*l*

Keep telling that to yourself.

[Kai Allard Liao]

lol. Troll. xD

[Domenoth]

Corviness, on 18 November 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

Domenoth, really. You deceive oneself.
The poll is 1 week old

It's old because things changed yesterday.

Corviness, on 18 November 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

and even today the player votes, the only thing only 500 ppl had vote is, that nobody makes advertice for it and not many of the community are active in the forums.

Seven out of eight pages of comments happened before the 12th of November. Only a fraction of page eight has anything within the last couple of days. I agree the poll shows people didn't like round 1 of voting. But I strongly disagree everyone who voted would vote now the same way they did. I've come to this conclusion by reading the actual comments people left. Since I'm trying to figure out how people feel, I'm reading what they actually took the time to say rather than what button they pressed in the poll.

You choose to rely on the numbers alone yet you claim I am the one deceiving myself.

Corviness, on 18 November 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

As Azrael said, 500 ppl are not the whole community, but with this 500 votes you can extrapolate it.
And I don't philosophize about this topic, I see the people ingame, writing, how much they hate the voting system, hating about, that conquest is now a really dead mode. I hear it on several Teamspeakservers because we (my clan) play together with clan wolf international, clan wolf russia, and other clan wolfs. Most people don't like it.

That's your experience. It sounds like you're in group queue. My experience from two hours of solo queue last night only had one person complaining about voting across several games. And in those games, about 5 people called him on it. So out of a conservative 30 people, 1 was vocally against it, 5 were vocally supportive of it, and 23 either had chat disabled or didn't care enough to comment one way or the other. That doesn't even count all the games where no one had any comments at all.

[AdamBaines]

Ummmmm K.

Moving on......

[MrElusive]

For the most part the patch is great. The voting system is something new to try out for sure.

Others and Myself do not like the news screen popping up as soon as the game loads up, Or the mech stat bar thingy that pop's up after every match when you get back to the mech lab or what ever. You should set those things to be norm hidden until someone chooses to pop them up.

Do you think you guys could start adding some more clan mech's?

[Aedwynn]

Domenoth, on 18 November 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

It doesn't really matter what people were willing to do. It matters what they will be willing to do in the future. The system needed to change.

game mode is the item that must stay to allow addition of more modes

World of Tanks has three game modes unless their website is out-of-date. They have a much larger playerbase than us and yet they only split into three modes.

I guess we'll find out, won't we?


Funny thing. When you read the first page of the comments in that poll, roughly every-other comment says "voting needs to go entirely because the same mode and map are getting chosen every time." or "All we're playing is Skirmish on cold maps, we need variety."

What did this patch do? It specifically made it so more game modes and maps are getting played. Pretty sure your 75% would be much smaller if the poll was taken again today. But by all means, cling to the results without actually trying to interpret what they mean or verifying if they are even still accurate.

I really don't know for sure. I have my suspicions based on what I've observed. All I ever said was that I hope and I think I am in the majority. My saying it doesn't make it true. Only PGI has the data metrics to know for sure.

Fine, do what you have to do. We'll see in the coming months if your prediction comes true or if you severely overestimated how many other people hate the same thing as you.

Guess what? Russ lied to you. Why I think he lied? It is the second attempt of putting voting in game (first was in beta). Result? Failure as in first try. Think on this - that change was put on without any testing on PTS, without even discussing it with community. Think why it was pushed so fast? To put a foundation for adding new modes? Surely not. It was put to shorten matchmaking time because it was getting longer due to falling population. That's the true reason - World of Tanks has now like 7 modes (3 classic, + 2 CTF tank style, + unequal teams - those that I remember) and has no issues even though some modes are not as popular as others. Attractive gameplay is deciding factor, period. And guess what? If playerbase continues to shrink we will see removal of last buckets - European and Oceanic servers. Those are buckets too after all.
Where it all started? When PGI focused too much on adding new mechs instead of improving mode gameplay. Now when population problems bite them in the ass they run around in panic desperately trying to do something.

Edited by Aedwynn, 18 November 2015 - 11:28 PM.

[no1337]

Andi Nagasia, on 16 November 2015 - 06:50 PM, said:

Looks Good, Cant Wait to see what the New HitBoxes look like,

where can one see the hitboxes? oO

[DarthHias]

Ninjah, on 18 November 2015 - 02:08 PM, said:

Of course people don't check both pages, it's sooo obvious there are two, those buttons really stand out. I for one didn't know there were Player Stats till I accidentally clicked on it, about a year after I started playing.

Yes it is obvious. Seriously there are two big slides with writing on them. I saw that the very first match.

[Arkhangel]

MrElusive, on 18 November 2015 - 04:42 PM, said:

For the most part the patch is great. The voting system is something new to try out for sure.

Others and Myself do not like the news screen popping up as soon as the game loads up, Or the mech stat bar thingy that pop's up after every match when you get back to the mech lab or what ever. You should set those things to be norm hidden until someone chooses to pop them up.

Do you think you guys could start adding some more clan mech's?

there's four showing up next month, man. the first four Clan BattleMechs, the Jenner, Hunchback, Orion and Highlander IICs. kinda hoping with the advent of those that the IS gets a few of its Omnimechs (and maybe the rest of the Streak SRMS, LBX and Utlra ACs. Light Gauss would be nice too)

[Domenoth]

Aedwynn, on 18 November 2015 - 11:22 PM, said:

Guess what? Russ lied to you. Why I think he lied? It is the second attempt of putting voting in game (first was in beta). Result? Failure as in first try. Think on this - that change was put on without any testing on PTS, without even discussing it with community. Think why it was pushed so fast? To put a foundation for adding new modes? Surely not. It was put to shorten matchmaking time because it was getting longer due to falling population. That's the true reason - World of Tanks has now like 7 modes (3 classic, + 2 CTF tank style, + unequal teams - those that I remember) and has no issues even though some modes are not as popular as others. Attractive gameplay is deciding factor, period. And guess what? If playerbase continues to shrink we will see removal of last buckets - European and Oceanic servers. Those are buckets too after all.
Where it all started? When PGI focused too much on adding new mechs instead of improving mode gameplay. Now when population problems bite them in the ass they run around in panic desperately trying to do something.

You present a compelling argument except a couple of very key details.

• You point out PGI didn't bother to put this on PTS noting the earlier fiasco the last time voting was added.
  
• The previous fiasco qualifies as a fiasco because droves of people stopped playing the game for a day or if they did play, they disconnected or even team killed when they launched a game mode they didn't like.
  
• You then claim the reason they're doing voting round 2 is because the population has shrunk too much recently and they are running around like the building is on fire trying to fix it.

So you're basically claiming PGI is attempting to prevent the playerbase from shrinking by adding a voting system that they already know is going to shrink the playerbase.

I realize people view PGI as imbeciles, but that's a really big stretch. Especially since it depends on PGI being both completely inept but also cunning enough to lay groundwork to make their lie plausible.

Russ teased a new game mode MONTHS ago. When people later pestered him about it he said "we thought about it but can't add it because it will add another bucket."
So for your scenario to hold up, months ago PGI had Russ start a propaganda campaign, feed it periodically until now, and then use it as a scapegoat to cover the dwindling population that is the real root of the problem. All while also "[running] around in panic desperately trying to do something."

You believe whatever you want to, but Occam's razor says the more likely explanation is that PGI wants to add game modes. But buckets are bad for the Match Maker, so PGI had to remove as many buckets as they could.

[Aedwynn]

Domenoth, on 19 November 2015 - 02:24 AM, said:

You present a compelling argument except a couple of very key details.

• You point out PGI didn't bother to put this on PTS noting the earlier fiasco the last time voting was added.
  
• The previous fiasco qualifies as a fiasco because droves of people stopped playing the game for a day or if they did play, they disconnected or even team killed when they launched a game mode they didn't like.
  
• You then claim the reason they're doing voting round 2 is because the population has shrunk too much recently and they are running around like the building is on fire trying to fix it.

So you're basically claiming PGI is attempting to prevent the playerbase from shrinking by adding a voting system that they already know is going to shrink the playerbase.

I realize people view PGI as imbeciles, but that's a really big stretch. Especially since it depends on PGI being both completely inept but also cunning enough to lay groundwork to make their lie plausible.

Russ teased a new game mode MONTHS ago. When people later pestered him about it he said "we thought about it but can't add it because it will add another bucket."
So for your scenario to hold up, months ago PGI had Russ start a propaganda campaign, feed it periodically until now, and then use it as a scapegoat to cover the dwindling population that is the real root of the problem. All while also "[running] around in panic desperately trying to do something."

You believe whatever you want to, but Occam's razor says the more likely explanation is that PGI wants to add game modes. But buckets are bad for the Match Maker, so PGI had to remove as many buckets as they could.

My previous post with all being said, is purely my opinion. To trust it or not - everyone decides for themselves. Still, on your side you made a couple errors - I hope coincidental, not intentional.
Correct way to put #1 from your post is PGI should've tested voting before putting it out as they know it failed to work before.
#2 Is totally your thoughts, not mine. In my opinion voting failed for 2 main reasons: 1) in a game where map itself affects how certain mechanics work voting leads to players gaming the system and as such to unfair and repetitive gameplay. 2) Forcing player to play too much of a game mode he hates only shrinks playerbase. Quite different from yours, no?
#3 Nope. I claim that main reason doing it the way it is done (without testing or discussion) gives up main reason for forcefully introducing such feature - to address wait times and get time to add content to get players back. I do not say there are no other reasons.
To sum it up, you didn't get the idea.
I say they try to get some time to fix stuff, but they chose not best way to do it. Their way is risky - they drive off players where there was no serious need to do so.
In a same way as focussing too much on new mechs was wrong, introducing voting without proper testing is wrong too.

Edited by Aedwynn, 19 November 2015 - 03:34 AM.

[Lord Auriel]

What if..

you die early, leave the game and want to see when your mech is read yagain. You don't see that anymore unless you go to the mechlab

That's way more offensive than the player stats page (which is non-issue)

[Aedwynn]

As a result of bad decision we got a lot of mechs and as such a good variety in that regard, but quite weak gameplay with game modes being either uninteresting, or unrewarding. PGI should've focused more on strengthening gameplay and improving modes instead of putting out tons of mechs. Why I say gameplay is weak? For same match score you can get rewards differing up to 15 times. That means game is quite bad at both rewarding teamplay as well as recognizing one. For starters top scorer is a guy who stayed with the crowd, done a lot of kill stealing as well as decent damage. Teamwork? He can throw it out the window, game will still think he is a good team player. Are scouts well rewarded? No. Are there real incentive to use Narc? No. Too risky with almost no reward. Will you get much out of hit&run? No. Capping points? No. In that hell I am not surprized people play Conquest same way as skirmish. And even skirmish itself sometimes turn out boring as hell. No real incentive to help others, no need for advanced tactics. That's what should be addressed, not wait times.

[Domenoth]

You think I misunderstood what you wrote, but I was pointing out where you're conclusions conflict with each other. You're very first assertion is that Russ is lying. You develop a motivation for that lie (I assume we can agree Russ would need a good motivation to tell the community a bold-faced lie) but the motivation you provide doesn't fit the timeline for when the "lie" would have had to start.

Aedwynn, on 19 November 2015 - 03:33 AM, said:

Correct way to put #1 from your post is PGI should've tested voting before putting it out as they know it failed to work before.

No, I said what I meant. They had a total flop once before. They're not going to flippantly implement round 2 unless they see a significant enough benefit on the horizon. Claiming the motivation is to bandaid a hemorrhaging population is laughable when the last attempt was itself the cause of a hemorrhage.

You called attention to the previous voting flop but you failed to account for what that flop actually indicates.

Aedwynn, on 19 November 2015 - 03:33 AM, said:

#2 Is totally your thoughts, not mine. In my opinion voting failed for 2 main reasons: 1) in a game where map itself affects how certain mechanics work voting leads to players gaming the system and as such to unfair and repetitive gameplay. 2) Forcing player to play too much of a game mode he hates only shrinks playerbase. Quite different from yours, no?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you didn't understand point number 2. I didn't go into any detail on why people hated voting. I cited the numerous atrocities committed by people "sticking it to PGI" by griefing their fellow players in an attempt to drive away those who were still enjoying the game. It was the most despicable behavior I've ever witnessed in any game I've ever played.

Aedwynn, on 19 November 2015 - 03:33 AM, said:

#3 Nope. I claim that main reason doing it the way it is done (without testing or discussion) gives up main reason for forcefully introducing such feature - to address wait times and get time to add content to get players back. I do not say there are no other reasons.

And, again, I pointed out that I find fault with your claim it was rushed. You can't claim something is rushed to address a recent calamity when it started before the problem existed. That would require clairvoyance from PGI.

Aedwynn, on 19 November 2015 - 03:33 AM, said:

To sum it up, you didn't get the idea.

To sum it up, you are calling someone a liar and performing mental gymnastics to do so when a more reasonable explanation exists.

[MovinTarget]

One thing that would help with the vote screen is to not show the percentages of current votes.

People are already jobbing the system by switching their vote repeatedly trying get the map they want without using their vote.

If you can't tell which map/mode is winning, people would more likely just vote for what they want instead of letting others vote for it and saving up their votes.

[Aedwynn]

Domenoth, on 19 November 2015 - 05:16 AM, said:

You think I misunderstood what you wrote, but I was pointing out where you're conclusions conflict with each other. You're very first assertion is that Russ is lying. You develop a motivation for that lie (I assume we can agree Russ would need a good motivation to tell the community a bold-faced lie) but the motivation you provide doesn't fit the timeline for when the "lie" would have had to start.

No, I said what I meant. They had a total flop once before. They're not going to flippantly implement round 2 unless they see a significant enough benefit on the horizon. Claiming the motivation is to bandaid a hemorrhaging population is laughable when the last attempt was itself the cause of a hemorrhage.

You called attention to the previous voting flop but you failed to account for what that flop actually indicates.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you didn't understand point number 2. I didn't go into any detail on why people hated voting. I cited the numerous atrocities committed by people "sticking it to PGI" by griefing their fellow players in an attempt to drive away those who were still enjoying the game. It was the most despicable behavior I've ever witnessed in any game I've ever played.

And, again, I pointed out that I find fault with your claim it was rushed. You can't claim something is rushed to address a recent calamity when it started before the problem existed. That would require clairvoyance from PGI.

To sum it up, you are calling someone a liar and performing mental gymnastics to do so when a more reasonable explanation exists.

Then explain to me mr wiseguy, why you replace my words with your words to prove me wrong? You pointed out where my conclusions conflict with each other? No, you point at your conclusions you mask as mine. My logic is quite simple here , and my explanation is different from your crap.
1) They put out a new system without any testing while they knew it wouldn't work - they tried earlier. Why would anyone sane do that if they got enough time? Nobody would, which means they had no time and were in a rush, or - they are morons.
2) Company always have plans in advance and they sure announce some stuff earlier. At the same time it doesn't mean they are always truthful about reasons and sometimes just lie about them (Peter Molyneux and rock paper shotgun, history of "Towns" as examples). Even if new mode was announced much earlier it does not mean that current mode selection system was in the way of introducing it (And in fact it wasn't - there is nothing that prevents introducing new mode with old system, buckets aren't problem at all). In our specific case, there are multiple reasons for introducing voting system, like "old system preventing introduction of new modes", "reducing wait times", "giving players more control over deployment".
3) Seeing how "giving players more control over deployment" is a bad idea (and was proven so on first attempt) and "old system preventing introduction of new modes" being not true ( with WoT as example) we can figure out main reason behind it - "reducing wait times". That is main reason to introduce that feature, all others are far less important. That explains why feature that is not really needed is introduced right now. It being rushed is a separate problem, that shows they are out of time.
So give me a reasonable explanation why they put out a broken system without testing it.

Edited by Aedwynn, 20 November 2015 - 09:41 AM.