20 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

The Executioner is not a gun boat, it is supposed to derive its efficacy from being a mobile assault, and with the limited ~75 degree (after mastery) twist angle, this is very difficult. I understand the desire was to make mechs feel more clumsy, but I feel maybe twist angle buff to the chassis is in order. I feel it is appropriate given the pod space this mech has available.

[Deathlike]

You know MASC is its savior?



I'm not saying it's an equivalent replacement, but arm articulation can bridge the gap a little as well.

[Widowmaker1981]

Gas Guzzler, on 16 November 2015 - 07:32 PM, said:

The Executioner is not a gun boat, it is supposed to derive its efficacy from being a mobile assault, and with the limited ~75 degree (after mastery) twist angle, this is very difficult. I understand the desire was to make mechs feel more clumsy, but I feel maybe twist angle buff to the chassis is in order. I feel it is appropriate given the pod space this mech has available.

With these skill value changes, its best to just stop playing assaults full stop, they arent viable.. it doesnt matter how much firepower or armour you have if you cant actually put that firepower on enemy mechs because you are too slow to track them, and run out of twist range easily. Assaults do not offer enough of a firewpower advantage over smaller mechs to make it worthwhile.

Its sad, because assaults are my favourite class, but its what the masses want.

[Gas Guzzler]

Well if they just buffed its torso twist to like 80 or 85 stock instead of 70 it would make a world of difference, still a bit sluggish due to the rest of the nerfs but atleast you can track targets while moving.

And yeah widowmaker, don't get me started on "Oh it's so great, I actually FEEL like I am in a 100 ton mech now"

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 17 November 2015 - 05:18 PM.

[Daddy]

The EXE is one of my favorite mechs until this happened. The highlander has huge buffs to throttle and it doesn't have masc at all. The loss of motion to this already restricted weapons platform makes me question any future money investment into this game. It's sad that the cry baby's keep crying louder then the rest of the people that love the game and just play it. There should be polls in game that everyone can vote on so pgi can get a real picture of the player happiness and less of the few haters changing the entire game.

[Tarogato]

I agree. I hopped into one to test out the MASC and I was completely taken aback by the lack of torso twist. This mech needs to be able to rotate better, or else it's even further behind the DWF in terms of viability.

[Void Angel]

The Battlemaster 1G/3M has it even worse - only a 60 degree base twist range. It's been the biggest problem with trying to make it a real brawler; you can brawl, and you can do really well as a pulse laser boat poker - but you often can't twist enough to shield your CT well without turning. The Dire Wolf also has that tiny 60 degree range, but at least it's more of a walking gun emplacement rather than a brawler.

PS: Insulting PGI's intelligence by claiming they only listen to the "cry baby's[sic]" every time they make a change you dislike is the kind of puerile nonsense that causes developers suspect players of living someplace other than the real world - an island, perhaps. Give constructive feedback with solid reasoning and forgo the insults and threats to stop paying if you want to actually be listened to.

[Davegt27]

Void Angel, on 17 November 2015 - 09:59 PM, said:

The Battlemaster 1G/3M has it even worse - only a 60 degree base twist range. It's been the biggest problem with trying to make it a real brawler; you can brawl, and you can do really well as a pulse laser boat poker - but you often can't twist enough to shield your CT well without turning. The Dire Wolf also has that tiny 60 degree range, but at least it's more of a walking gun emplacement rather than a brawler.

PS: Insulting PGI's intelligence by claiming they only listen to the "cry baby's[sic]" every time they make a change you dislike is the kind of puerile nonsense that causes developers suspect players of living someplace other than the real world - an island, perhaps. Give constructive feedback with solid reasoning and forgo the insults and threats to stop paying if you want to actually be listened to.

Interesting point of view and something I had not considered.
Namely me saying that PGI responds to people complaining on the forums is an insult to there intelligence

I am on AMD's gaming evolved and in October they told me I was playing 65hrs a week, wow I told my self I better cut back lol

During the previous year long MWO marathon I observed every time someone complained about a weapon on the forums resulted in a in game nerf
If you could search some of my posts you would see posts like "wow that was quick"
Referring to people complaining about CSSRMs, or the screen shake from boated CUAC5's
Now let's look at the zerg rush when people complained about that tactic did PGI put up any type of voting to see what people wanted?
Or did they just nerf the zerg rush
Would you like me to put up 10 other examples of nerfs and no voting

Question is the whole rebalance (you could also call it a drastic change in the game) a result of the wants of the players?

This is my first online game and I am still totally shocked by all the modifications to this game
Ever play the game Monopoly? Was the game the game or was the game up for constant modifications?

I can see that the PTS is not a place I want to be

Jmtcw

[Void Angel]

Well, this is not my first MMO game, so let me lend you some perspective.

Monopoly isn't anywhere near as complex a game as ANY multiplayer game - and it's different in kind, as well. Strategy in Monopoly consists of whether to buy a property, and where to put your houses/hotels. There's no real interaction between player strategies, because there's no counterplay; it's essentially a game of chance to pass the time. MWO - or any other PvP MMO does have that interaction. Even in 1v1 PvP, Gameplay consists of what I'm trying to do to you and what you try to do back to me - plus what effects the environment has, if any (I still smile, recollecting that time I Frost Shocked that Paladin so he couldn't get out of the way of the giant metal reaver... ah, memories.) This all leads to emergent properties and unintended effects - for example, (ER)PPCs used to be far lower in heat than they are today, because they were underperforming. However, their performance was partially due to hit registration errors and lag shields because of the netcode; when that was fixed, they were suddenly all-range powerhouse weapons and nothing else was worth taking. Complaints ensued, and the system was nerfed back into sanity fairly quickly - rightly so, and to wails of acrimonious recrimination much like your post above.

It seemed clear in this case - and many players take this as an article of faith in all cases - that PGI simply caved in to complaints when they nerfed the PPCs back up to canon heat values. But this is simply incorrect - a post hoc, ergo proptor hoc fallacy. If something is broken, and interfering with players' enjoyment of the game, it's usually going to be complained about - but it does not follow that PGI must be knuckling under to the loudest screams whenever the make a change. You can easily falsify that proposition by just looking at the facts: How long have LRMs been lackluster; how long has ECM been the subject of acrimonious complaints? How long has the flamer been a waste of a half-ton and a critical slot? Many, many things which players have vociferously complained of on the forums have not been fixed, or have been changed in ways not to the complainers' liking. This means that this viewpoint - that developers simply cater to the loudest complainers, effectively designing their game via forum committee - is flatly wrong.

The reality of game design is more complex. Developers implement the game in cycles; they make changes, then test the results, then iterate more changes. They are constantly monitoring the game through multiple channels, some of which are completely hidden from players - forum complaints are only one such avenue of communication. When the devs find a problem, they will examine complaints, but also do their own internal testing and brainstorm their own ideas for a fix. Then they test their own changes, possibly put them on a test server for the players, and finally release them live - then restart the design cycle by monitoring the effects of the change. This has been the standard method in every MMO I've ever played. Developers certainly do track complaints! But they don't just slavishly cave in to player desires - in fact, there are major examples in the industry where giving players too much of what they want leads to a game that is less fun and failed to give players what they need.

An excellent example is World of Warcraft. Catapulted into mainstream gaming by the roaring success of its Burning Crusade expansion, Blizzard's development staff set about creating their next big expansion, Wrath of the Lich King. They incorporated customer feedback into their design process, creating a tiered raid system (so that everyone could see all the content) and making numerous other changes. Most of these changes were not bad, but by the end of the expansion, the emphasis on accessibility and participation made the game... less fun. I won't bore you with the details, but I will say that as a raid progression Shaman I got very tired of just casting Chain Heal over and over and over. Eventually, Blizzard realized that many of their new players were simply not familiar with the MMORPG format, and were asking for a game that was effectively a multiplayer console RPG - and what those players thought they wanted was actually not giving them what they expected, so they were starting to leave the game. With the release of Cataclysm, the next major expansion, Blizzard rectified the situation by reinstating a higher difficulty level in end-game content, starting with the new crop of Heroic dungeons. They explained the decision Here. I encourage you to read it - and I wish I could still find you some of the response threads it generated. The tone was... familiar.

I'm not telling you to shut up and stop complaining, or that no one will care what you think. PGI does care, and they've demonstrated it in the past. But if you want them to lend credence to your viewpoints, ascribing incompetence to them in the same breath is not a good method for giving feedback.

Edited by Void Angel, 18 November 2015 - 11:00 PM.

[Daddy]

The issue I have is the insane lvl of quirks given to inner sphere mechs of the same tonnage range when the clan version has a bigger motor and is forced to react slower. My example is the highlander vrs the executioner. The highlander a smaller engin cap and somehow moves faster and reacts way quicker then the exe. Yes the exe has masc but the masc is supposed to augment the already insane engine the mech is running. That and combine it with the fact that the exe cant move the engine, masc, our the jj's there is obviously gimping being done to this mech. All of these attributes are going to be hit again with the gimping of the skill system. Also the mechs omnipods have no benefit of swapping any of the torsos really due to needing the lasers in both torsos to survive neutering. The mechs really limited on tonnage availability due to having all the above equipment hard wired into the mech. Most of these points have been braught up on many forums but I wanted to show all of these things to point out that the mech is already way behind against anything around its tonnage in the game and needs to be given some real love.


P.S. What I meant on the CRYBABY comment was that there is no voting and most players that love the game don't read forums unless they have problems. If pgi had a I game polio poll on issues every week they would get a better overall picture from the game popular. Rather then furring from the hip at any random suggestion to quite the loudest voice.

Edited by Daddy, 19 November 2015 - 10:00 PM.

[Void Angel]

Holy self-serving assumptions, Batman! Can you demonstrate that the majority of players who "love the game" don't read the forums unless they have a problem? Why do you think that game development should be run as a democracy (bonus question! Did you know that democracies actually do end up making decisions based on the loudest voice?) Can you prove your wild assertion that PGI is composed of drooling idiots who are simply "furring at the hip" to make people stop yelling? And most importantly, do you take your rose-colored glasses off when you sleep, or do you see only what you want to see even in your dreams?

I know what you meant by "crybaby." My objection was that you were insulting, asinine, and ignorant - not that your condescending rhetoric was somehow unclear.

[Daddy]

I think you are completely missing any points being made in this discussion.
I do believe that voting when combined with good information can really help this game a lot. All decisions get better with more information. I think pgi's missing out on a valuable information source by not using I game polling. That's all I wanted to say on this matter

Let's agree to disagree and get back to fixing the issue of this mech.

[Davegt27]

I for see six months from now there will be people crying about the game being broken
(Insinuating the devs don't know what they are doing) and so and so needs to be fixed

They will use code words like balance, OP, broken and lore

We will then be on the road to repeating this whole thing

Edited by Davegt27, 03 December 2015 - 04:31 PM.

[Sugabearto Kell]

Void Angel, on 19 November 2015 - 10:07 PM, said:

Holy self-serving assumptions, Batman! Can you demonstrate that the majority of players who "love the game" don't read the forums unless they have a problem? Why do you think that game development should be run as a democracy (bonus question! Did you know that democracies actually do end up making decisions based on the loudest voice?) Can you prove your wild assertion that PGI is composed of drooling idiots who are simply "furring at the hip" to make people stop yelling? And most importantly, do you take your rose-colored glasses off when you sleep, or do you see only what you want to see even in your dreams?

I know what you meant by "crybaby." My objection was that you were insulting, asinine, and ignorant - not that your condescending rhetoric was somehow unclear.

a perfect example of this. is the Match Making Changes....they put up a poll on a forum that 60% of their community doesnt even visit and changed some ****. Ur a joke if you think IS Mechs are not superior in every way now. Watch, what happens, we can theory craft all day with this crap but the game is going to explode with IS Domination. Blackjack is the best hands down medium mech in the game. Without fail or even competition. The Quirks that IS get and now clan's Lack there of or a SLEW of negative quirks left on the mech is a joke. Watch MS or 228 just **** on clans...When this tukkayid battle is over you are going to watch IS march ALL OVER EVERYTHING. The only reason its going to be close is because some of the best units in the game are comming to clans for the event for low Que Times. Watch....just watch. The proof will be in the pudding and just sit and see how it plays out.

[o0Marduk0o]

Sugabearto Kell, on 04 December 2015 - 02:00 AM, said:

Ur a joke if you think IS Mechs are not superior in every way now. Watch, what happens, we can theory craft all day with this crap but the game is going to explode with IS Domination. Blackjack is the best hands down medium mech in the game. Without fail or even competition.

Stop finding excuses for your failure.

[Aiden Skye]

This is why I hate blanket nerfs. Not all mechs are made the same. Non top tier mechs just sink deeper into the mire and often are given no compensation.

[SgtMagor]

better torso twist, more thrust for jump jets to cover terrain faster, these are the things this hitNrun mech needs.

[Gas Guzzler]

SgtMagor, on 10 December 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

better torso twist, more thrust for jump jets to cover terrain faster, these are the things this hitNrun mech needs.

Those are things this mech deserves, not the ones it needs right now.

[Void Angel]

When nearly identical builds are dominant across multiple Clan chassis, it's probably the weapon systems, not the 'mechs - thus the nerf. As for the Inner Sphere being oh-so-superior now? No. The 'mechs that got the most love were the ones that weren't performing - when was the last time you saw an Atlas before last patch? With the sheer volume of changes made, it's probable that we'll see revisions and reversions, but the main Clan Omnimechs aren't getting quirks like the Inner Sphere because they are the standard to which all other 'mechs aspire. No amount of self-serving assumption (since when to top players prefer short queues over superior machines,) poisoning the well, or ad hominem dismissal will change that.

[Russhuster]

As a result of the movement nerfing to Clan in general the clan assaultmechs are reduced to pure victims
A dire wolf pre nerf was the slowest mech on th field,.. that was not good but well one could live with that
but now with an additional 20% movement Nerf to ALL clan mechs, even a IS heavy mech can run the death circle around a dire
that is why you wont see those chassis much
Same goes for the executioner,.. no top mech bevore
but now?

thanks PGI

Edited by Russhuster, 12 December 2015 - 05:18 AM.