10 replies to this topic

[Aeryk Corsaer]

I was responding to a fellow forumite on another post I made regarding my command Atlas and there was speculation on how and what we can replace existing weapons. The MechLab video, wherever weapon hardpoints were available, was represented by the number 3 with the amount not used to the left of the slash. When the AC20 is removed, the number becomes 3 out of 3. The AC5 is put on, it drops to 2 of 3 again. Later, a Machine Gun drops it to 1 of 3. So a half-ton Machine Gun and a fourteen ton AC20 take up the same hardpoint allotment.

I just consider it a restriction on the capabilities of the targeting computer. It can handle coordinating so many weapon systems regardless of how big they are in actuality. You could also argue that the targeting computer is designed to follow a certain parameter in combining firepower, in the Hunchback for example, with ballistic fire from the right torso and flexible energy mounts in each arm and secondary mounts in the center torso.

The center torso energy mount is where the title of this thread came from. In the MechLab video, it shows 3 hardpoints (energy) available in the Center Torso even though there are only 2 critical spaces. Notwithstanding alternate rules or configurations, this is not possible normally. Just an oversight in an early build is my assumption - maybe the default hardpoints was set at three. This still does not explain why the small laser is in the center torso and not the head. The head should show one energy hardpoint but this could have been fixed long ago.

Many of you knew this anyway but just wanted to put (maybe another... ) this thread in defining this because on my Command Atlas (using the Founder Atlas) I put an ER Large Laser on each arm. Even if there is only one energy hardpoint on each arm, this should be a safe bet. As is replacing the LRM with a second SRM system. Am I correct in my understanding of hardpoints??? Critical space looks like it is unchanged from the TT; I have been designing/reconfiguring BattleMechs since 1985.

[Name48928]

The game is still in beta. We don't have any information on the type or number of hardpoints each mech will have in each location at launch. It's speculated that mechs may have unused hardpoints in their default loadouts, but we have no specific information at this time.

But yes, a machine gun and an AC/20 both take 1 ballistic hardpoint. The difference is the MG only takes 1 critical slot and the AC/20 takes 10 (according to TT rules, again, this could change in MWO at launch).

Edited by MinionJoe, 10 July 2012 - 08:59 AM.

[Viper69]

I think the hardpoints designate the number of that type of weapon you can put there. Available tonnage is a different story. That is how I interpreted it. I think it is because they want lasers firing out of areas where lasers would normally be and so forth. I think.

[Name48928]

Viper69, on 10 July 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

I think the hardpoints designate the number of that type of weapon you can put there. Available tonnage is a different story. That is how I interpreted it. I think it is because they want lasers firing out of areas where lasers would normally be and so forth. I think.

To my understanding, that is correct. Weapon placement is limited to availability and type of hardpoint (one per weapon, of the correct type: missile/ballistic/energy), availability of critical slots in the location, and availability of tonnage left on the mech.

[Fahr]

another possibility in that video is that the CT and Head Crits are combined (basically, the engine/Gyro and cockpit/Lifesupport/Sensors can't be moved, so why not just combine the remaining 4 crits into one block for simplicity sake) that would leave enough space for 3 laser systems in the CT area. Given the Mechs visual redesigns, the cockpit is more often in the CT really anyway, so I could see them doing this.

in any case, it's not clear to us yet.

[Minsc]

Aeryk Corsaer, on 10 July 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

I was responding to a fellow forumite on another post I made regarding my command Atlas and there was speculation on how and what we can replace existing weapons. The MechLab video, wherever weapon hardpoints were available, was represented by the number 3 with the amount not used to the left of the slash. When the AC20 is removed, the number becomes 3 out of 3. The AC5 is put on, it drops to 2 of 3 again. Later, a Machine Gun drops it to 1 of 3. So a half-ton Machine Gun and a fourteen ton AC20 take up the same hardpoint allotment.

In that video what you saw was this:

Hard point : AC20 equipped <---swapped to---> AC5
Hard point : (nothing) <---swapped to---> Machine Gun
Hard point : (nothing) <---swapped to---> Machine Gun

Quote

I just consider it a restriction on the capabilities of the targeting computer. It can handle coordinating so many weapon systems regardless of how big they are in actuality. You could also argue that the targeting computer is designed to follow a certain parameter in combining firepower, in the Hunchback for example, with ballistic fire from the right torso and flexible energy mounts in each arm and secondary mounts in the center torso.

Nothing to do with targeting computers or other equipment. It is a system created by Piranha to help balance the game by limiting boating and making all chassis useful. Without hard points, I'm going to strip an atlas, and put 1 medium or 1 small laser onto every single critical location I have. Or better yet, do the same with a jenner. Now I move something like 120 KpH while shooting 20 Medium lasers. Hard points prevent this and make every chassis useful besides the largest light mech.

Quote

The center torso energy mount is where the title of this thread came from. In the MechLab video, it shows 3 hardpoints (energy) available in the Center Torso even though there are only 2 critical spaces. Notwithstanding alternate rules or configurations, this is not possible normally. Just an oversight in an early build is my assumption - maybe the default hardpoints was set at three. This still does not explain why the small laser is in the center torso and not the head. The head should show one energy hardpoint but this could have been fixed long ago.

Unfinished game is unfinished. That video is old and out of date. At least I would hope so. If values haven't changed, or shifted to proper locations by now, then Piranha is moving as a snails pace for development.

Quote

Many of you knew this anyway but just wanted to put (maybe another... ) this thread in defining this because on my Command Atlas (using the Founder Atlas) I put an ER Large Laser on each arm. Even if there is only one energy hardpoint on each arm, this should be a safe bet. As is replacing the LRM with a second SRM system. Am I correct in my understanding of hardpoints??? Critical space looks like it is unchanged from the TT; I have been designing/reconfiguring BattleMechs since 1985.

I saw your thread earlier and don't see why it would be in violation of anything in the mechlab. Based on what we have seen of the mechlab your swapping of large lasers should be fine along with most of your other proposed changes. As for your addition of ECM, BAP, and a few other small things, it's probably a strong maybe. If you could do it in http://remlab.source...mlab30/mech.lab I'd imagine something very close to what you proposed should be in MWO. That is of course as long as Piranha is following as close to TT rules as possible (adjusting values for balance issues of course) as they have said they are.

Edited by Minsc, 10 July 2012 - 09:10 AM.

[Aeryk Corsaer]

Fahr, on 10 July 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

another possibility in that video is that the CT and Head Crits are combined (basically, the engine/Gyro and cockpit/Lifesupport/Sensors can't be moved, so why not just combine the remaining 4 crits into one block for simplicity sake) that would leave enough space for 3 laser systems in the CT area. Given the Mechs visual redesigns, the cockpit is more often in the CT really anyway, so I could see them doing this.

in any case, it's not clear to us yet.

Ah, this makes sense to me (except you said 4, not 3). This would show why their are three energy hardpoints available but the small laser on the critical table of the head, not CT, could be important. I remember one battle in TT BattleTech when my head was hit by a PPC (breaking through of course) and my opponent rolled one critical. He thought he was going to really mess with my 'Mech but he only took the small laser out on my Awesome! If that was not there, a reroll would have done something nasty up to a cockpit hit. Later lost mech to an SRM to the head, oh well.

[Fahr]

oh yeah - small cockpit is later, that makes 2 in the head, wasn't thinking clearly..

[Aeryk Corsaer]

Minsc, on 10 July 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

Nothing to do with targeting computers or other equipment. It is a system created by Piranha to help balance the game by limiting boating and making all chassis useful. Without hard points, I'm going to strip an atlas, and put 1 medium or 1 small laser onto every single critical location I have. Or better yet, do the same with a jenner. Now I move something like 120 KpH while shooting 20 Medium lasers. Hard points prevent this and make every chassis useful besides the largest light mech.

I know it does not in BattleTech, just adding my own fictional fluff to convince my brain why it is this way...




Unfinished game is unfinished. That video is old and out of date. At least I would hope so. If values haven't changed, or shifted to proper locations by now, then Piranha is moving as a snails pace for development.

Agree.


I saw your thread earlier and don't see why it would be in violation of anything in the mechlab. Based on what we have seen of the mechlab your swapping of large lasers should be fine along with most of your other proposed changes. As for your addition of ECM, BAP, and a few other small things, it's probably a strong maybe. If you could do it in http://remlab.source...mlab30/mech.lab I'd imagine something very close to what you proposed should be in MWO. That is of course as long as Piranha is following as close to TT rules as possible (adjusting values for balance issues of course) as they have said they are.

#1: I know it does not in BattleTech, just adding my own fictional fluff to convince my brain why it is this way...
#2: Agree.
#3: Thanks for the feedback!

Edited by Aeryk Corsaer, 10 July 2012 - 10:01 AM.

[Glythe]

Just wait man. Until we have more info you really can't know how to outfit your command Atlas. But it will be awesome no matter what you put on it with that sexy blue paint job.

[Kobold]

Compact Gyro some day?