20 replies to this topic

[Dominoran]

JR7-F Long Range Alpha

With this build you're running on lower armor in exchange for 3 ER-LL. With this build you're quite mobile, and can deal quite a bit of damage before overheating. If you can strike decisively you can turn the tide with the damage, range and mobility.

[L a S e R]

I look at the armor... I don't think I could do this build to myself. But hey, if it works for you keep it up!

[AlmightyAeng]

Get a Cicada 3M. Does it better, cooler, and with ECM

[Dominoran]

Ghost Badger, on 22 December 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:

Get a Cicada 3M. Does it better, cooler, and with ECM

Sounds like a good combo.

I forgot to mention this build has one jumpjet, so it helps quite a bit in positioning.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

I fail to see why you would need 3 ERLLs. You would be better served switching one of them for five extra DHS because that alpha is extremely hot. Also, the RVN-4X does long range poking much more effectively. +30% energy range and -30% burn time turns your LL into a slightly short ERLL with the burn time of a ML.

[Vermaxx]

And you could add the standard laser range module into the Raven to further make up the difference.

I don't like a mech with all its guns in one underarmored arm. You lose the arm, you're completely invalid. Now that not every map has a cap point to force, all you can do is hope someone shoots you instead of someone more important.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

Right. Now that I've gotten back to a computer, I can look at Smurfy - and I can point out a few -huge- flaws with your build.

One. The legs. NOBODY strips leg armor from a light. That's just asking for someone to kill you by hitting your legs, which is already the most common and easiest way to kill a light.

Two. Heat management. XL280 with no external DHS means that you are relying purely on the 10 internal DHS. 3 ERLLs is 27 heat. 10 TrueDubs is 60 heatcap, with 2.3 h/s dissipation. You can alpha twice before redlining, and be out of the fight for a good 30 seconds before you cool down entirely. That is, if you do NOT move, because moving adds a small amount of heat per second.

Three. Burn time, and your armor. You've stripped so much armor that anyone with big ballistics (read: gauss rifles) will be able to punch a hole through your armor and probably heavily damage if not outright destroy your mech in one alpha. JR7-F only has a minor 10% laser burn time reduction quirk, so you will end up exposing your mech for all of that 1.125sec, stand perfectly still (if you want to land all of that alpha, which you are proposing as the highlight of your mech), in addition to moving into position and reversing back into cover. If they have a countersniper with competent aim, you WILL be destroyed in one hit; especially considering how the JR7 now isn't one giant CT on legs.

I've made changes to this mech, that should improve its overall performance. But honestly, you'd be wasting the JR7 on a long-range build like this. The mech has a huge engine capacity, and metric tons of E hardpoints as well as JumpJets. You can get in, unload heavy damage, and get out.

JR7-F 2x ERLL

Has lower landspeed, but since you're sniping from long range, things have gone horribly wrong if you have to run away really fast. 4 JJs let you access all of the best sniping spots that are inaccessible to most other mechs (like the top of those rampless plateaus in Bog). 3 extra DHS give you extra cooling and capacity. Armor greatly increased overall. Notice how there are two DHS on the weapon arm; this is for crit padding, so that if your arm happens to take a 10+ damage alpha that happens to crit, it will be more likely to hit a DHS than one of the ERLLs.

This build does 3.08 damage/sec without overheating on an average-temperature map, while your previous one can only achieve 2.22 damage/sec without overheating. In a long match (which is most of them), this will translate to a huge difference in damage done for your team. 180 sustained DPM vs ~140 sustained DPM can make the difference between killing an extra mech or not in a 5-minute match; that's an extra 200 damage that can be done in the same time period.

Honestly, though, do this on a RVN-4X. You'll be doing much, MUCH better. Especially because you can switch out the ERLLs for normal LLs to get better DPM and heat management. RVN-4X with the same build as the 2 ERLL with normal LLs substituted in will get 3.47 sustained dps, which is around 210 DPM. An extra 350 damage over 5 minutes, compared to your 3 ERLL build.

Edited by ArcturusWolf, 22 December 2015 - 11:21 PM.

[Dominoran]

ArcturusWolf, on 22 December 2015 - 10:06 PM, said:

I fail to see why you would need 3 ERLLs. You would be better served switching one of them for five extra DHS because that alpha is extremely hot.

Shock factor

2 er large laser builds have become the norm for long range light mechs.

The damage one receives with 2 erll is expected, but 3 gives the damage dealt a little more weight of consideration. If you dealt this damage to say a medium mech, you would have given him a worse burn that would shake his or her confidence. Likewise, if you find an unwary light mech standing at optimum distance, you can strip the armor or even outright destroy a leg.

First strike

With an xl280 engine, you have a fast enough mech that you could engage the enemy first.

In this instance you would want to engage them from a safe position. Using intuition, you find yourself 700-800 meters away from an enemy. Whether or not he notices you, you aim, fire, retreat, and see if he counterattacks. If he's using slow projectiles, if you're careful enough, your 3 hitscan erll will beat out no hit erppc/gauss. If the enemy looks like a good shot, reposition and try another vantage point.

Support

This is a point I didn't discuss earlier, but when you're in a position to help out a team mate against a lone opponent or two, dealing a massive alpha is going to help tip the tide. I find most opponents do target the larger mechs first when faced with multiple opponents.

I find the heat manageable, but maybe it's because I have mastered my Jenner.

Vermaxx, on 22 December 2015 - 10:17 PM, said:

I don't like a mech with all its guns in one underarmored arm. You lose the arm, you're completely invalid. Now that not every map has a cap point to force, all you can do is hope someone shoots you instead of someone more important.

I definitely understand, once that arm is toast, you're just a scout mech, and by that point nothing but an annoyance. On the flip side you have a lame arm that might save you from a shot.

ArcturusWolf, on 22 December 2015 - 11:15 PM, said:

Right. Now that I've gotten back to a computer, I can look at Smurfy - and I can point out a few -huge- flaws with your build.

One. The legs. NOBODY strips leg armor from a light. That's just asking for someone to kill you by hitting your legs, which is already the most common and easiest way to kill a light.

Two. Heat management. XL280 with no external DHS means that you are relying purely on the 10 internal DHS. 3 ERLLs is 27 heat. 10 TrueDubs is 60 heatcap, with 2.3 h/s dissipation. You can alpha twice before redlining, and be out of the fight for a good 30 seconds before you cool down entirely. That is, if you do NOT move, because moving adds a small amount of heat per second.

Three. Burn time, and your armor. You've stripped so much armor that anyone with big ballistics (read: gauss rifles) will be able to punch a hole through your armor and probably heavily damage if not outright destroy your mech in one alpha. JR7-F only has a minor 10% laser burn time reduction quirk, so you will end up exposing your mech for all of that 1.125sec, stand perfectly still (if you want to land all of that alpha, which you are proposing as the highlight of your mech), in addition to moving into position and reversing back into cover. If they have a countersniper with competent aim, you WILL be destroyed in one hit; especially considering how the JR7 now isn't one giant CT on legs.

I've made changes to this mech, that should improve its overall performance. But honestly, you'd be wasting the JR7 on a long-range build like this. The mech has a huge engine capacity, and metric tons of E hardpoints as well as JumpJets. You can get in, unload heavy damage, and get out.

JR7-F 2x ERLL

Has lower landspeed, but since you're sniping from long range, things have gone horribly wrong if you have to run away really fast. 4 JJs let you access all of the best sniping spots that are inaccessible to most other mechs (like the top of those rampless plateaus in Bog). 3 extra DHS give you extra cooling and capacity. Armor greatly increased overall. Notice how there are two DHS on the weapon arm; this is for crit padding, so that if your arm happens to take a 10+ damage alpha that happens to crit, it will be more likely to hit a DHS than one of the ERLLs.

This build does 3.08 damage/sec without overheating on an average-temperature map, while your previous one can only achieve 2.22 damage/sec without overheating. In a long match (which is most of them), this will translate to a huge difference in damage done for your team. 180 sustained DPM vs ~140 sustained DPM can make the difference between killing an extra mech or not in a 5-minute match; that's an extra 200 damage that can be done in the same time period.

Honestly, though, do this on a RVN-4X. You'll be doing much, MUCH better. Especially because you can switch out the ERLLs for normal LLs to get better DPM and heat management. RVN-4X with the same build as the 2 ERLL with normal LLs substituted in will get 3.47 sustained dps, which is around 210 DPM. An extra 350 damage over 5 minutes, compared to your 3 ERLL build.

Oh yeah, this build definitely has some flaws. It took so much armor to fit that third erll, I'm terrified of being hit at all. But that's probably why I like this build. A glass cannon/ fragile speedster type of mech.

At the longest range, I don't think I've ever been legged or cored. The most I've gotten is badly injured to erll burns. Maybe it's because the opponents I face can't hit my small target at such a long distance. You do get more danger the closer you are to the opponent. The danger is real.

I'm not a fan of the build you made because of that land speed. I'd rather be able to flee from a moments notice with low armor if I see something like a light assault than to be caught and whittled away. The extra jumpjets are good, but then if I wanted 2 large lasers with armor, I'd remove the 3rd one and add extra jump jets and some armor and keep the speed.

Edited by Dominoran, 23 December 2015 - 07:43 AM.

[Tarogato]

Not recommend.

I'd just play a CDA-3M instead.

Or perhaps this RVN-3L.

And yes, I'd recommend LL over ERLL any day. You rarely get to abuse the range of the ERLL in pubqueue, so the extra heat is just a thorn in yourself. Better to go with standard large lasers.

Edited by Tarogato, 23 December 2015 - 08:39 AM.

[Xoco]

The build linked in Smurfy has double the armor on CT as my SL Locust...
And I spend most of the time close enough to get stepped on by enemy Assault lance.
My ranged Locust has 4 armor on CT...
That Raven could stand to lose a LOT more armor and survive just fine.

*edit for spelling

Edited by Xoco, 28 December 2015 - 04:00 AM.

[Tarogato]

Xoco, on 27 December 2015 - 09:47 PM, said:

The buils linked in Smurfy has double the armor on CT as my SL Locust...
And I spend most of the time close enough to get stepped on by enemy Assault lance.
My ranged Locust has 4 armor on CT...
That Raven could atand to lose a LOT more armor and survive just fine.

lolwut?

[Fox With A Shotgun]

Xoco, on 27 December 2015 - 09:47 PM, said:

The buils linked in Smurfy has double the armor on CT as my SL Locust...
And I spend most of the time close enough to get stepped on by enemy Assault lance.
My ranged Locust has 4 armor on CT...
That Raven could atand to lose a LOT more armor and survive just fine.

Ravens present a much bigger (and slower, and more predictable) target than a Locust. Not to mention at the ranges that you are fighting, an assault will have much more problems targeting a close-up fast-moving target than a far-off, slower-moving target. Honestly, a RVN needs to front-load its armor almost like a locust to survive repeated poking attempts.

The same is true for the Jenner, if not more so. At least the RVN presents a very narrow frontal profile; the Jenner presents a very wide CT if trying to poke. And since its cockpit is really far down on the CT, you still expose more than half of the CT trying to poke.

Edited by ArcturusWolf, 27 December 2015 - 10:52 PM.

[Xoco]

ArcturusWolf, on 27 December 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

Ravens present a much bigger (and slower, and more predictable) target than a Locust. Not to mention at the ranges that you are fighting, an assault will have much more problems targeting a close-up fast-moving target than a far-off, slower-moving target. Honestly, a RVN needs to front-load its armor almost like a locust to survive repeated poking attempts.

The same is true for the Jenner, if not more so. At least the RVN presents a very narrow frontal profile; the Jenner presents a very wide CT if trying to poke. And since its cockpit is really far down on the CT, you still expose more than half of the CT trying to poke.

That never resonate with me. Could be just my personal opinion though.
People keep saying that the Jenner is a much bigger target than the Locust, and therefore it will take more damage. That's not how it works in my experience. I'm finding it to be tougher (because of the added armor). It being slower target though, could be a real problem. Most people would say that it is only a few KPH slower, but I agree that 10-20KPH makes all the difference in the world, especially on Lights.

But I disagree that my target should have a harder time aiming at me because I'm so close by--mainly because I rarely ever fight 1 target at a time. When you're behind the enemy line, you can expect 4 to 8 people aiming at you, not 1v1. It helps that I can use my target to shield me from their friends, but taking any hits will instantly vaporize me all the same.

Tarogato, on 27 December 2015 - 09:56 PM, said:

lolwut?

I tried to fix the spelling. I can never type on mobile phone virtual keyboard, no matter how careful I am.

[Void Angel]

I... don't think he means the spelling, dude.

[TercieI]

Dude.

Seriously.

There are mechs for that.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

TercieI, on 28 December 2015 - 07:16 AM, said:

Dude.

FTFY. RVN-2X

XL255 > XL245 + DHS. Engine DHS is worth much more than an external DHS in cooling.

[Roughneck45]

ArcturusWolf, on 28 December 2015 - 07:25 AM, said:

FTFY. RVN-2X

XL255 > XL245 + DHS. Engine DHS is worth much more than an external DHS in cooling.

5kph and 1% cooling or 8 more armor on the legs. I could see arguments for both.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

Roughneck45, on 28 December 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:

5kph and 1% cooling or 8 more armor on the legs. I could see arguments for both.

Yup. But if you're going to be packing ERLLs, you're going to be poking the enemy from -really- far away. That, or you're hill-humping, which means your legs aren't exposed. Or both. Either way, you won't need 4/4 armor on legs if you're sniping. Different story if you're going with 4 MPL and a bunch of DHS, though...

[M T]

Not really an efficient build imho. First ghost heat, and other light snipers do way better icm ECM.

6x C-ER Medium/XL250 + shitton of DHS would do it more justice with semi poky poky

Edited by MTs Cavia Porcellus, 28 December 2015 - 08:34 AM.

[TercieI]

ArcturusWolf, on 28 December 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

Yup. But if you're going to be packing ERLLs, you're going to be poking the enemy from -really- far away. That, or you're hill-humping, which means your legs aren't exposed. Or both. Either way, you won't need 4/4 armor on legs if you're sniping. Different story if you're going with 4 MPL and a bunch of DHS, though...

2/1.4 on the last DHS doesn't make a ton of practical difference. Like Roughneck, I can see cases for both (it's not a FTFY situation), but I favor the 245 for a two main reasons: 1) I don't give up leg armor on lights ever. It's literally my only absolute mech building rule. You can end up in late game kiting and 4 points of leg armor can be the difference and 2) in pure poking situations, strikes become rampant and 7 head armor is very risky there. I would really only use ERLLs on this mech in comp (and alpine/tourmaline), but I've run 3LL a lot.

Either way is much better than the Jenner.