29 replies to this topic

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

OR - How to set up MWO to play in VR on your smart phone. (instructions in thread)


Well I've heard rumors that Occulus Rift support could be coming down the pipe. And I was pricing VR headsets for smartphones today and wanted to know if any games I actually wanted to play would support this thing.

I'm not sure if the work that goes into getting Rift support can be ported over to a general VR that can work with Android/Iphone but being able to play MWO on immediately affordable VR would be a boost to players, I'm sure of it.

Everyone has smartphones, so this could be accepted pretty quickly.



So is there a desire for this? MWO in VR? for Cheap?

Edited by ArchMage Sparrowhawk, 14 December 2015 - 08:37 PM.

[GroovYChickeN]

The smartphone VR experience requires you to play the game/video on your smartphone. It doesn't act as a monitor for another device. As cool that that would be, as far as I know, you will have to wait for a Rift or Vive. There is also TrackIR that is available right now if you wish to set it up.

Edited by GroovYChickeN, 19 November 2015 - 02:09 PM.

[Impyrium]

GroovYChickeN, on 19 November 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

The smartphone VR experience requires you to play the game/video on your smartphone. It doesn't act as a monitor for another device. As cool that that would be, as far as I know, you will have to wait for a Rift or Vive. There is also TrackIR that is available right now if you wish to set it up.

This. Unfortunately it just can't work via streaming as far as I know, part of the reason why the Oculus is still going to have cables. Just a limitation of current technology. Plus I don't really know if the Cardboard is going to be any good for that sort of stuff, it's more like a "Oh this is cool" then something you'd use regularly.

Personally I'm just waiting for the Rift. I've held off on the dev kits, don't think I'm going to be able to hold off this time...

[Troutmonkey]

Short answer - No. MWO has to plans to support Google Cardboard VR.

As a dev, I can tell you that it would be hard enough getting one VR system to work, let alone trying to be compatible with 100's of different Android phones with different resolutions, drivers, and gyros. Heck, PGI can't even scale the UI to work on a triple monitor setup yet. It's not going to happen.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

Well this was what I was thinking about doing.

Basically a smartphone VR headset, modded with an IR light to allow head tracking.
Plus generic webcam and head-IR tracking software.

And then I can use that head tracking to control the mouse or in cockpit view. And I can stream it over Moonlight or something similar to my phone. I mean I know there might be some latency. But VR for 15 bucks is tough to turn down.

That's the theory anyway

http://www.roadtovr....s-rift-games/2/

They wouldn't need to specially support 1000 different Android phones, just get a basic set that works in general and let Android and iOs built in head tracking register somehow.

Edited by ArchMage Sparrowhawk, 19 November 2015 - 03:27 PM.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

so in essence, the cellphone or alternative VR device that is strapped to your head, WOULD in fact be functioning as your "monitor" since you would be streaming from your PC to the device.

Yeah its a bit kludgy a way to get around buying a 400$ VR helmet setup, but I'm willing to tinker a bit.

So it sounds like from the few responses, it would be nice, but we don't think it would be achievable, so why ask?

k.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

got my 20 dollar chinese knockoff of the SamsungVR. No touchpad or motion sensing hardware built in. It's basically a Google cardboard, made of high quality plastic, with slightly adjustable lenses and a semi-comfortable headband. Also impressed that Radio Shack still actually keeps LED diodes in stock.

Using this in conjuction with TriDef and Moonlight Nvidia-Streaming software, I had had some fairly decent results. The 3d looks...really 3d but also distorted, slightly elongated. I'll have to work on it. I haven't gotten headtracking to work beyond slight nudges of the mouse. Opentrack and Freetrack are in line for that. I'll work on some configurations over the weekend.

If I can get rid of the fisheye effect and get a decent amount of focus for the video, this will be all worth it because it looks that good. But if I can do that, plus headtracking, that will be mission accomplished.

Only hitch is mouselook is connected to arm control so I will have to lock the arms to free the head tracking mouselook.

I had some really good initial results using Smartphone VR apps like Gagagu and IntugameVR, but both of those rely on wifi streaming in addition to splitting video into steroscopic image, so any network slowdown translates into an FPS stutter. But the accelerometer head tracking when everything works, is really nifty.

an android device, usb tethered for video is probably the best way to go for latency.
anyway, this is fun to tinker around with.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Damn things make me sick as hell so I'm stay way WAY WAAAAAAY away from VR.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

Yeah one of the hitches is, depending on the lens distance, the visuals range from "hey this is pretty good" to "oh my god I'm going blind". If I had to do it over, I might just get the 99$ Samsung VR to play around with, especially since it almost took a month to ship this "BoxVR" here. I have to assume that the lenses would be more accommodating on the more expensive models and of course the occulus rift. But for this low price I can understand a bit of tweaking to get that sweet spot.

I'm convinced though. Smartphone enhanced VR is here to stay, and even if MWO doesn't "support" it, the mountain will come to Mohamed. I already see some mentions of MWO during my research, so other people out there are trying the same thing.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

So, using FreeTrack and a webcam + LED clip I was able to get head tracking to work!

So I can now move the mouse just by moving my head, and it's fairly accurate.

Now....the problem. Mouselook and torso twist all seem to be bound together.

I can't seem to control only the freelook with the mouse or bind it only to a joystick, because the moment I activate freelook, the joystick's torso twist is also bound to freelook. '

Seems like a support limitation, but maybe someone knows how to futz around with the bindings and mouselook controls in an ini?

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

one funny thing though...even the steam when your mech overheats is in 3d. Looks so good just floating around the cockpit and just looks more noticeable and realistic in 3D. Still no luck on the fisheye distortion front.

So now its down to controls. If I can get the mouselook to bind to the head tracking.

i still can't get over the fact that I'm tinkering with my at home DIY Virtual Reality system.
The future is so cool!!!#$!@#

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

- Samsung GearVR $99-120
built in accelerometer+software interface for spatial tracking. Merges with your Samsung phone.

- BoxVR + 30 other similar names. $15-30
entry level VR HMD clone case that uses your Android or iOs phone. no frills just Google Cardboard tech with a head strap.

Kainy or Moonlight Desktop streaming - streams the video to your HMD via wifi. If you can get video over tethering that's even better, but I think only Android supports that right now.
http://www.kainy.com/
http://moonlight-stream.com/

TriDef 3D - Third Party 3D injector that renders 2d games into 3d and also splits video into a stereoscopic image. They have a 14 day demo. There are also other alternatives, I understand TriDef might have some problems with ATI video cards. GMAX is another stereo3d program but its not as far along and doesn't have an MWO profile like TriDef.


iOs streaming VR apps
Gagagu VR Streamer - This is nifty software that does everything in one, but you need a really fast internet connection and wifi. It splits and streams the video of your screen to your phone, and also uses the phone accelerometer for head tracking so it can control a mouse (or joystick with emulation). A lot of overhead going on in this app, so it always seems laggy to me, but others might have better luck.

http://gagagu.contex...e/index.php/en/

Intugame VR - A lot like the Gagagu app above, simpler interface, same drawbacks
http://intugame.com/

I haven't figured out the mouselook issue, but I did get the warped video resolution fixed by using an 8:9 ratio. Now this is a damn Mech Combat Simulator!

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

Not that these will be all that meaningful. Maybe if you cross your eyes a bit.



Also, if you plan on doing camera based headtracking, you may consider getting a HMD that is any color other than shiny white or even reflective shiny black. I find that the reflection of light from the monitor messes with the LED point tracking.

[Chuck Jager]

Try hooking you phone/laptop/other device with a full monitor with windows remote desktop and playing the game.

You should have your answer quickly

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

Chuck YeaGurr, on 13 December 2015 - 09:41 PM, said:

Try hooking you phone/laptop/other device with a full monitor with windows remote desktop and playing the game.

You should have your answer quickly

RDP isn't the best solution for streaming hardware accelerated graphics. It was laggy just working a desktop. Kainy works great on Android and Moonlight works great on android and ios, and is free.

Edited by ArchMage Sparrowhawk, 13 December 2015 - 09:50 PM.

[Chuck Jager]

ArchMage Sparrowhawk, on 13 December 2015 - 09:49 PM, said:

RDP isn't the best solution for streaming hardware accelerated graphics. It was laggy just working a desktop. Kainy works great on Android and Moonlight works great on android and ios, and is free.

Well yes technically speaking "snort". The point is it is hard enough to get folks who have moderate to poor computers and connections to not be a sinkhole for the devs efforts/abilities.

Mechanically we have great ways to install components in systems. With large computer driven systems that interface with a large diverse user group, I personally have had my professional life put in jeopardy by folks who say we can just plug in this "free" and/or "open/source" element.

[Davegt27]

Another link
https://www.oculus.com/en-us/

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

Chuck YeaGurr, on 13 December 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

Well yes technically speaking "snort". The point is it is hard enough to get folks who have moderate to poor computers and connections to not be a sinkhole for the devs efforts/abilities.

Mechanically we have great ways to install components in systems. With large computer driven systems that interface with a large diverse user group, I personally have had my professional life put in jeopardy by folks who say we can just plug in this "free" and/or "open/source" element.

well using a free phone app to stream video games to your cell phone is a bit different from using a free Russian antivirus program in place of your corporate Enterprise's firewall.

I was reading in another MWO thread someone was asking about MWO in VR and they were told it required a massive Multicore system and two linked 980 Nvidia cards, etc. My computer is at this point, kinda old. I have a Geforce 670 and an old intel i7-930, and I would fall somewhere near the mid-line of specs, and I can run VR just fine. Take a little bit of tweaking, but by damn, it does work, and it looks good.

So this is why I don't understand the attitudes that just immediately cast it out of thought because it would be too hard to adopt or implement. Clearly that's not the case, they just have to look into it. Everyone won't be able to do it, but the specs aren't that strict, and who says they have to guarantee everyone can play the game in VR with Ultra settings? They really don't.

Edited by ArchMage Sparrowhawk, 13 December 2015 - 10:20 PM.

[Chuck Jager]

ArchMage Sparrowhawk, on 13 December 2015 - 10:20 PM, said:

well using a free phone app to stream video games to your cell phone is a bit different from using a free Russian antivirus program in place of your corporate Enterprise's firewall.

I was reading in another MWO thread someone was asking about MWO in VR and they were told it required a massive Multicore system and two linked 980 Nvidia cards, etc. My computer is at this point, kinda old. I have a Geforce 670 and an old intel i7-930, and I would fall somewhere near the mid-line of specs, and I can run VR just fine. Take a little bit of tweaking, but by damn, it does work, and it looks good.

So this is why I don't understand the attitudes that just immediately cast it out of thought because it would be too hard to adopt or implement. Clearly that's not the case, they just have to look into it. Everyone won't be able to do it, but the specs aren't that strict, and who says they have to guarantee everyone can play the game in VR with Ultra settings? They really don't.

If it was possible and could easily make money most companies would be glad to implement it. But implementing technology across a wide spectrum is never simple. After a couple of years any system may have a multitude of hidden patches/fixes that have to be applied because of the interface of users/hardware/software they can not control but are required to make work. The folks who take the abuse from the public when things suddenly become glitchy are the same folks who take the abuse because some new cutting edge tech is not being implemented.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

FYI this also applies to Cardboard if you're using TriDef or a similar program. Some useful resolutions so everything looks right.

Quote

One of the most exciting features of vorpX 0.9 that slipped under the radar is its support for arbitrary game resolutions and aspect ratios. You can take advantage of this to substantially improve both performance and quality in many games. Here's how to do it (I tried this with Dishonored):

• 
  
  Create a custom resolution with aspect ratio 8:9. It can be anything, but a few options are: 1280x1440, 960x1080, 1600x1800, and 1920x2160. My favorite is 1280x1440, which roughly matches the per-eye render target resolution in many native titles. Higher resolutions have better quality, while lower resolutions have better performance. You can create the resolution in NVIDIA Control Panel, AMD Catalyst/Vision Control Center, or in the game's configuration files - it doesn't matter as long as you can get it to show up as a resolution option in the graphics options in-game. [edit: In my case I added it to my primary display's list of resolutions, which the game uses to generate its resolution list. My primary display is a 4K monitor so it can do them all. In some cases you may have to force them in with Custom Resolution Utility or edit your game's config files.]
  
• 
  
  Select the resolution option in-game.
  
• 
  
  Configure the in-game FOV to about 100 degrees. (As a pleasant side effect, this trick enables you to play titles that don't permit FOV to be set above 100 degrees.)
  
• 
  
  You may need to adjust "Separation (3D-Strength)" in the game's vorpX settings. I adjusted mine down from 1.0 to 0.6.

That's it! Let me know what other titles this trick works in.

Here's how it works: in the Rift, each eye view must be rendered with a fixed aspect ratio of 8:9, since the 16:9 display is divided between the left and right eyes. Because traditional games don't typically render at this aspect ratio, vorpX traditionally got around this by setting the FOV to something really big (about 140 degrees), rendering the game at a 16:9 aspect ratio, and then cropping off the left and right sides, reducing the final FOV to about 100 degees. This is really wasteful since half the rendered pixels are simply discarded. By using a custom 8:9 resolution, we can ensure no cropping occurs and 100% of rendered pixels end up in the render target, where they are then warped for viewing in HMD.