45 replies to this topic

[Tahribator]

You say

Quote

[color=#959595]No mech should be able to stand for two full minutes getting repeatedly alpha striked during that time and survive. [/color]

but you also realize, most of those alphas are misses right? There's no way you can hold lasers steady on an ACH that doesn't want to be hit. So what teams end up doing is scratching the ACH with laser cuts here and there until something eventually falls off. Seriously record your gameplay, slow it down and watch how many "hits" you get.

[Surn]

Well, it is clear some people are delusional or lying to keep their game breaking mech intact. So... Ignore them and lets get back to the actual question....

how do you kill the indestructible artic cheater?

[DropshipPilot]

Prussian Havoc, on 21 November 2015 - 10:56 PM, said:

Comparisons to Firestarters are quite accurate... before Firestarter hit boxes were nerfed to where they are currently, NOTHING would drive Clan CW gamers to greater distraction than House Marik's patented 3 Firestarter/ 1 Other Mech Drop Decks.

How did Clan gamers beat such Inner Sphere use of Firestarters?

We didn't.

We lost battles.

We lost worlds.

If the battle for a certain world was important enough we just campaigned within our units to "get out the vote" (get more fellow Unit gamers into CW rather than Public Queue) thus locally overwhelming in numbers what we could not take through strength of arms.



After a time, the smarter members of our Units constructed and structured the use of Streakcrows and then Streakdogs as well as organized our Unit's Horizontal Drop Decks to include 1 to 3 "Goalkeepers" (Streak-centric fast Mechs) to hang close to the net (generators) and guard specifically against Firestarter Rushes.

I think this is the point where many Inner Sphere gamers find themselves, what has always worked before (old builds and old tactics) will not work moving forward. New builds (material solutions) and new tactics (organizational solutions) are called for...


...will the Inner Sphere prove capable of developing acceptable and effective counters to the Arctic Cheetah?

...or will threads whining to PGI that the Arctic Cheetah is OP and MUST BE NERFED further propagate throughout our forums?

Wasn't the problem back then ... light rushes of gens... and not that Firestarter were or are indestructible like the artic cockroach?

[Blood Skar]

MechregSurn, on 21 November 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

Several inner sphere Cw players have become frustrated to the point of quiting MWO due to the indestructible Artic Cheater/Cockroach.
They seem to take 1/2 damage and require several mechs to kill. We are surprised that clan dropdecks haven't become 2 or more artic cheaters...and believe they will eventually become so.
Shooting legs doesn't seem to be effective, 5ac5 hits that take down direwolves are laughed at by ACH..even when standing still. So, any suggestions?

It runs at 142 after tweek....of course its going to be speed tanky. If its standing still it'll take damage just fine.

I've no idea how old your account is but...just after Closed Beta - Jenners were being complained about exactly the same as Artic Cheetahs are now.....the added ECM of the Cheetah is why they have become a target for this kind of whine imo....
after your kind stopped complaining about jenners - Ravens were next for the whine rack....even Commandos and Spiders had their turn on the Whine rack - even the Kit Fox was called out as OP for a long time(i had to lol when that was happening...as it wasn't and isn't - its ECM was again the reason imo) now its Cheetahs turn it seems.

Even if it is OP(i suggest with the leg nerf AND speed nerf -2.5%next patch AND ECM nerf - it will be a lot easier to kill)....how many IS lights are currently broken? You convieniently avoid bringing them into the discussion....the main thing going for it is its ECM and speed.

If its so OP how come light mech queue is always the lowest? 19,21,37,23 atm... it was 13% when i logged on....how come everyone doesnt take this mech if its so OP? I suggest Hvy mechs are OP....Thunderbolts for example are CRAZY OP atm....lets talk about them perhaps? This is no doubt why the Hvy mech queue is always the highest...now Timberwolfs have been nerfed into the ground...they cant be the reason....imo the TOP DOG is the most OP mech atm...

What do you want the Artic Cheetah to be? do you want it to be a one shot kill? Then I and others will move to FS-9 until you get that nerfed with your whining then i'll move onto something else.....like a Pirates Bane that runs at 160+ maybe...

BTW...belitting something (the cockroach comment in the title) doesn't help your arguement.

How about we talk about how overquirked the IS mechs have become? As i said in another post after this upcoming patch - if they go ahead with what they have said in the .PDF quirk changes i predict players will be moving back to IS mechs anyway...
Talking about how just 1 clan light mech is OP when you have more broken IS lights than 1...and crazy quirks on other mechs like the Thunberbolt...is disengenuous at best.

TLDR: Talking about ACH in isolation is disengenuous when you dont consider other mech's and how they have become overquirked. The upcoming patch continues this with IS mechs being even moreso positive quirked compared to Clan mechs that are having quirks taken away on the whole. (not to mention the negative quirks some Clanners get now). Read the .PDF quirk changes for clarity. Pay attention to the +torso and Acc/Dec changes IS mechs are getting huge buffs compared to Clans...
I'll even link the .PDF below.

https://mwomercs.com...rk%20Values.pdf

for example:
QKD-IV-FOUR
Ballistic Cooldown +30%
Ballistic Velocity +25%
Energy Cooldown +10%
Energy Range +25%
Missile Cooldown +20%
Missile Velocity +10%
Accel +65%
Decel +65%
Turn Speed +50%
Torso Yaw Angle +25
Torso Yaw Speed +45%
Add Armor CT +20
Add Armor L/R Torso +14
Add Armor L/R Arm +15
Add Armor L/R Leg +14

Doesn't that look...oh i dunno....slightly overquirked?

Edited by Blood Skar, 22 November 2015 - 11:19 AM.

[EmperorMyrf]

The quickest answer an IS mech can have to the Cheetah problem is the IS AC/20. The round itself has a fat hitbox so as long as you can lead their hips with it it's going to connect. I've never had any issues with Cheetahs in a HBK-4G except the occasional time I have to take on 3.

Even if you can't connect with a leg, the AC/20 is still your best bet for these things. Having that highly concentrated damage takes away the one thing that keeps them alive so long, their ability to spread damage across all locations.

[Prussian Havoc]

DropshipPilot, on 22 November 2015 - 10:24 AM, said:

Wasn't the problem back then ... light rushes of gens... and not that Firestarter were or are indestructible like the artic cockroach?

And the reason those gens were destroyed was because even when all twelve Clan Mechs tried to smartly defend those gens, the Firestarter (like the AC) proved incredibly difficult to destroy, spreading damage etc.

[nukedog]

Just a continuation of PGI making light mechs way too hard to kill.
They're just making sure people will buy light mechs by unbalancing the game.

[PFC Carsten]

Tahribator, on 22 November 2015 - 09:47 AM, said:

You say



but you also realize, most of those alphas are misses right? There's no way you can hold lasers steady on an ACH that doesn't want to be hit.

Please realize the following, which you choose to cut from your quote:

Bud Crue, on 22 November 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

He danced around for over two minutes, and shut down twice in the midst of us all. We lit him up like a christmas tree both times. He came back each time and kept going like the energizer bunny. Slightly more than two minutes of game time to leg and then kill the thing against 7 mechs. No mech should be able to stand for two full minutes getting repeatedly alpha striked during that time and survive.

Not wanting to be hit must be a really powerful cheat(ah), if it also works while shut down, right?

btw - had the same problems myself more than once. Shut-down ACH, standing double 5-MPL-alpha to the back, the thing powered up again like nothing happened.

[Bud Crue]

Blood Skar.

As a huge Quickdraw fan, I am sorry for the following snark. But come on...

Are you arguing that all things being equal a Quickdraw IV-4 is a better than an Arctic Cheetah...because of the quirks? Or lets keep the tonnage the same that an IV-4 is better than a Maddog because of those amazing quirks?

Lets put it another way, using your example. Name me one Clan mech that you seriously think CAN'T stand up to a Quickdraw IV-4 (mist lynx maybe?). I think if you put up a pole of what would you rather drive: the oh so impressively over quirked IV-4 or an Arctic Cheetah? Which do you think will win?

We both know that answer based on the game...and it aint Quickdraws. While there are a few nuts like me who drive Quickdraws regularly; compare the number you see in ANY matches to Cheetahs.

I mean you know why IS mechs are "over quirked" right (and especially Quickdraws)?

I am not buying for a second that you seriously consider an IV-4 or any other IS mech frankly OP compared to Cheetah...keeping in mind that your example is comparing a mech of 60 tons to an omni of 35. Yet you somehow conclude it is the 60 tonner to be over quirked? K. Let me know when you start running exclusively IV-4s because of their superior abilities.

[Tesunie]

Tahribator, on 22 November 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

Don't shoot the legs unless you have a massive alpha and a very steady aim. Not only they're very small, but they also get +15 leg structure quirks that make them extremely durable.

Agreed with everything but the quoted section.

Didn't they remove all health quirks (or almost all) from the Cheetah's legs?

[Drarz]

So far my best tactic is to head-butt it with my raven and have my friendly King Crab blast it while it stands still.

Edited by Drarz, 07 January 2016 - 12:07 PM.

[jonfett]

I inadvertently found a really great way to kill Ar Cheetars last night. I had purchased Firebrand a month ago, but didn't like it's default load-out. I've played around w/ different load-outs, never finding one I liked, until I really stared at the Firebrand "dekal". It cried out "Flamers!" at me. So, I put 6 flamers on it, 2 AC/2's and a butt-load of ammo and heatsinks. It looks awesome in this role BTW. Helps light the way in nighttime battles too, Anyways, I found that when the Ar Cheetars would come by to try and rekk me, I would hit them w/ a full alpha of flamers and ac/2. Since the cheetah builds are usually always meta 6-spl's, the flamers would overheat them when they fired at me and stop them in their tracks. AC/2 dakkadakka would finish them off. This also succeeded against other larger medium and heavy mechs that were primarily meta lazer vomit builds. This build doesn't get a lot of DMG points, but it is fun.

Edited by jonfett, 09 January 2016 - 12:36 PM.

[mogs01gt]

depends on the ping between the players. Those with 200+ ping makes their mechs look like they are teleporting every where.

[Windscape]

i have a hunchie 4P w/ 3 med pulse and 6 sml pulse, a 42 dmg alpha strike. The ACH has up to 20 armor + the 10 inside, which is 30, so one alpha and it is legged, i then slowly watch it suffer then shoot the other one.

an alternative is to shoot for the side torsos, especially since clan XL engines were nerfed, stripping a torso takes off a good portion of its firepower and slows it down to about 100 kph, so it is essentially an under gunned kit fox.

[Dandred]

Very interesting hit box layout. And now I understand why everyone says "it spreads damage very well." Specifically, no matter where you aim the mech has the potential to spread damage across five hit boxes.

I don't think any of the other fast mechs do this. It appears the best place to aim is not above the knees, but exactly at the knees. The lower legs are generally moving too fast to hit reliably, and the knee joint is the only upper leg component that is below the RT CT LT armor.

However, I do intend to learn recording and review of my matches. I have (I believe) seen cheetahs absorb massive amounts of fire. you say I missed, but the end point of the laser was very clearly reacting with the cheetah model. Not only that, but even if I missed some, and of course I did, the paper doll should at least change color after five twin laser volleys. Some recordings to look at would be nice to confirm if I am actually missing or not.

But next time, I'll try aiming a bit higher and see if that improves.

[Tesunie]

Dandred, on 18 January 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

However, I do intend to learn recording and review of my matches. I have (I believe) seen cheetahs absorb massive amounts of fire. you say I missed, but the end point of the laser was very clearly reacting with the cheetah model. Not only that, but even if I missed some, and of course I did, the paper doll should at least change color after five twin laser volleys. Some recordings to look at would be nice to confirm if I am actually missing or not.

Do keep in mind that it might be hit registration and not specifically the mech as well. I shoot SRMs all the time in my Brawling Atlas, and I have some matches where I can kill a fellow assault in 4 alphas, and other times I need 6 alphas to turn a Stormcrow orange armor...

AKA: You may actually be hitting your target on your screen, but between hit reg, host state rewind, your ping and the ping of your target (if any of them are in flux, hit reg will get messed up), the system can't tell if you hit or missed, or thinks you missed when you should have hit. (Or hit when you should have missed.)

[1Grimbane]

i'm assuming the key is to damage the mech to the point of it ceasing to function.... just like all the mechs

side note srms seem... seem to be hitting better post patch... i've put srms on lots of clan and IS mechs as of late with great effect

Edited by 1Grimbane, 18 January 2016 - 04:36 PM.

[Av4tar]

I would be salty and frustrated too if i lost against a cockroach.
Aiming and leading will help alot.

Edited by Eden Blackheaven, 19 January 2016 - 11:11 AM.

[Generic Internetter]

MechregSurn, on 21 November 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

Howto: Destroy The Indestructible Artic Cheater/cockroach

3x Streak SRM6 does the trick for me vs any light mech.
If you make sure they're not getting behind cover, it will hurt them everywhere.
Add lasers for extra fun and cheetah 'splosions.

Edited by Generic Internetter, 27 January 2016 - 07:00 PM.

[DeadliestDuck]

Arctic Cheaters are Firestarters on steroids, and thus, as others have said, the true solution is to use either a clan streak boat or an excessively large group of mechs.

Both the ACH and FS are very hard to fight fairly, thanks to their compact, humanoid hitboxes, crazy mobility, and powerful short range damage (A.K.A. awesome brawling capabilities). Really the only thing to do if you continually have trouble with them is to stick closer to your team and work on perfecting your aim.