45 replies to this topic

[Sjorpha]

Tarogato, on 25 November 2015 - 01:27 AM, said:

I could never get away with only one ton of Narc. Just in public queue drops I used to run 2.5 tons of Narc ammo. Any less and I would definitely run out before the end of the match. Of course, that was before I joined Isen, and I don't Narc anymore because it's a lot of tonnage spent on something that isn't guaranteed to deal damage. Also, I've never tried in CW, where I'm sure you'd need more ammo to light up at least a wave and a half worth of targets.

I've been having some success in CW running narcs on brawlers and poptarts instead of on lights, as a way of enhancing target focus and controlling the clans ECM.

Thunderbolts can take a NARC without losing too much direct firepower for example:
TDR-9SE
TDR-5SS
TDR-9S
I think doing a wave with 5 of those narcing TDRs and 4 tanky assault brawlers backed by 3 LRM boats could be interesting to try.

I also like putting a narc on the Shadowhawk 2K poptart.
SHD-2K
The Shadowhawk is especially good for dealing with the snipers who sit on the roof between the gates on Vitric forge, you can stand up against the wall of shame with seismic to see where they are, jump straight up and narc them, then use the narc trageting to pre aim for PPC poptarting and for your team to focus them as they peek.

I've run a full dropdeck of narcing brawlers quite often. It does hurt your damage output a bit, brings my average down from 1500 to 1350 or so, but I've often felt it was worth it. I can't say I have the science to back that, just plenty of anecdotal experience where the clanners aren't prepared for getting their ECM canceled and their position checked so consistently.

My current position is that NARC can absolutely be worth it for several reasons, but not on light mechs. Bringing narc also does not necessarily make LRMs worth bringing.

Edited by Sjorpha, 28 November 2015 - 04:22 AM.

[Khereg]

No takers Dane?

[Jarl Dane]

Khereg, on 01 December 2015 - 07:06 PM, said:

No takers Dane?

And yet in the nether reaches of the Hub boasts are still made of their effectiveness.
But the world has changed and a balancing has come to pass. Perhaps in this dawn things will be different then they have been in past eras. Perhaps the light of knowledge will shine forth and cover the dark realms of the Hub in its emanations of wisdom.

[Khereg]

If I get enough free time and an abundant supply of bourbon, I'm still down for trying it out. I'm sure Mikato Soul would be in for a goof as well. If we could find 10 other miscreants to have a go at it we may pull this off yet.

[Tarogato]

FYI, the "direct fire meta" vs "mixed roles with supportive fire" event is happening. Envisage is a new player to MWO, coming over from competitive CS:GO and believes he has what it takes to prove that supportive roles and LRM carrying can defeat top players in the prevailing direct fire meta. TheSilken has taken up the task of gathering competitive players to provide the meta team.

Event will be streamed, if all goes according to plan, some time on Sunday night (Dec.13th) - I believe 5pm EST (22:00 UTC), give or take 20 minutes. Stream will most likely be here: http://www.twitch.tv/banditb17

Discussion: http://mwomercs.com/...h-lrms-vs-meta/

Edited by Tarogato, 09 December 2015 - 11:49 PM.

[Johny Rocket]

Mech The Dane, on 22 November 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

I have heard more then a few people on the FRR hub tell me with complete confidence and total conviction that there is a place in drops for support rule mechs that do little no damage.

An example I was given was a mech dedicated to turret killing in CW. But I don't think that is a serious example. My best guess for what kind of mech these people are thinking about is maybe a light with narc and tag, who helps lrm boats get targets. Maybe there are some other roles I am not aware of since I never put a mech in one of ISEN's dropdeck that isn't capable of doing damage.

This brings me to next point I have heard and that is LRM's are good to bring as well, that they just require an experienced hand to use properly. Plus, anyone making a case for a support mech that has narc and tag is obviously also advocating LRMs.

Now I am firmly in the camp of direct fire superiority. I don't think a pilot running LRMs will be as effective as one using direct fire, and I don't believe sacrificing a mech that could be doing damage on its own, to being a support role mech is worth it.

This isn't to say people don't have success with LRMs or even in support role mechs; but that if they were running direct fire mechs they would be more successful.

People can run whatever they want. It's a game and everyone is their own boss. I am not challenging people's right to play these mechs, or anything so absurd. I merely challenging the idea that playing these mechs is equivalent in merit and potential success.

I want to either prove or disprove the argument made to me that these sorts of roles and mechs are just as powerful as direct fire mechs.

If it's true then I need to be shown the truth so I stop arguing against LRMs or support role mechs that do low damage. I would most certainly want to know if I was wrong. And, hopefully, if I can demonstrate they are not as effective - that some players and units will stop arguing that they are and maybe steer some newer members in different directions.

So this is an open challenge to any one in the FRR who genuinely believes that. Especially unit leaders. I would like to take 8-12 of my guys in only direct fire mechs against 8-12 of yours with at least one support role mech, or lrm mechs.

I would like to see what would happen. It is science.

I'll do it. Set it up.
I run 2 mechs that fit your equation. I run a KTO18 as my 2nd or 3rd drop, 5 x5 lrms, erll, tag, adv. zoom and adv target decay. This is not a 800m boat, I hunt my own targets and I support teammates. On attack I know the 2nd wave will be facing damaged mechs so I come thru the gate in the middle of the pack and look for high ground with cover and a view of their spawn entrance, if I can't get that I stay right behind the action and prefer running fights in the 200-300m range. I prefer to be the only lurmer because I can cover multiple enemies and pretty well fill the nitch.
On the defense I stay moving to stay where I can see gates or support teammates.
I use every trick like getting angles so i can dumbfire into the cover at gates, area denial so my team can push up yadayada.

Even though I prefer to have LOS I love guys who bring narc and tag. The guys I usually play with keep UAVs up regardless of lrms, though we usually have one in each wave.
I have a lot of ecm mechs and since the range nerf it is very hard just to keep a few teammates in your bubble, let alone fight.

The other is an E-war RVN-3L. I have a lot of matches in this mech where the damage is paltry but my score and earnings are huge. I take point and find the enemy and then support, watching for flanks/lights. Sometimes I scout and spot if I know we have a lot of lrms. Ecm, sensor range, seismic, tag, 2 ml and 2 srm6. Narc is a bit redundant and heavy. The point of this build is not how much damage it does but how much info it provides and for how long it it survives. That last bit usually insures I will do some damage to.

Edited by Tractor Joe, 10 December 2015 - 03:55 PM.