33 replies to this topic

[Roadbuster]

I'd really like to know why it's impossible to get a somewhat constant hit registration, or what exactly causes such weird behaviour, and what players can do at their end, to minimize it.

Examples:

I'm running the game with 60fps frame limit to prevent fluctuations because of varying fps.
Playing the same mech on both, NA (~125 ping) and EU (~30 ping) server with the same issues.
I even check the ping of the mechs I hit very well, or which seem to take no damage at all.

One time I can hit all rounds of a C-AC20 on a moving mech, and in the next second they don't register at all when firing on a stationary target.

Or C-ERPPC fired on the CT of an Awesome ~50m away.
Red CT armor before firing. After 4 shots still red CT armor.

Want another one?
Alpha strike on the leg of a shutdown light (AC, lasers and PPC). Paperdoll not even blinking.
And in the next moment, the same light gets cored by another alpha, while running and jumping to dodge.


It's just so random that it's seems impossible to adapt to it.
The result can also be seen at the end of a match. Sometimes I feel like I've dealt alot of damage and it only displays 300dmg, other times it feels like an average game and it says 700dmg.
Again, no matter which server I play on and if the majority of the opponents plays on NA or EU server.

Any advice?

[Sabazial]

It was mentioned some time ago that PGI run their servers at a lower tick rate than usually seen in fps games, so if there's a lot of action going on some of the shots just don't get processed by the server hence doing little to no damage on occasion. Wish i could remember the topic it was in i'd link it for you.

[PurpleNinja]

Sorry bro. From my long experience with MWO, some days the server is in bad mood, nothing you can do about it.
Ping and FPS don't seen to affect this behavior.

[adamts01]

It's boring and cheesy..... but just use lasers or lock on missiles. Ballistics, PPCs and SRMs are just random at times.

[Sarlic]

It always have been.

Nothing new, serious; nothing new.

[Roadbuster]

Well. Not quite the answers I was hoping for.

Thx for the replies though.

[Sarlic]

Roadbuster, on 23 November 2015 - 06:53 AM, said:

Well. Not quite the answers I was hoping for.

Thx for the replies though.

The only thing that you can called being fixed was the buckton, HSR and laser hitreg. But how trustable information is that? It did improve but by which margin?

Before that we had terrible desyncs, lagging out players, disconnects and more. But in my opinion the overall hitreg is still terrible off at times.

So yeah, i really can tell. Even low ping players can have issues.

Edited by Sarlic, 23 November 2015 - 07:27 AM.

[Almond Brown]

It runs on the Internet. If everyone had just 1 weapon many would likely see way better HR results. Try a Hop Test to a server you know of, then load MWO and try the same test over again. Don't be surprised if the route taken to source doesn't change dramatically, or the # of Hops goes up substantially.

And yes, other games work great but almost no others allow the use of >5 weapons at a time as the norm, with >/= 11 allowed as well.

Edited by Almond Brown, 23 November 2015 - 07:44 AM.

[Obadiah333]

The other problem is due to convergence, especially with wide arm mounted weapons. You actually aren't shooting the enemy mech per se, you are shooting to where the target reticle is on the map and the computer determines if something was hit (in the way) of the shot reaching that spot. It's ultra borked. There many spots on the map where you line up to shoot in between distant terrain features where one shot goes straight and the other shot angles off into nowhere. This has been the case since the beginning. The engine used for this game is not very effective of tracking shots on the scale required to be accurate. I swear the host state rewind bs thing guesses half the time to see if a shot hit. I kid you not.

[BigBenn]

Ive not had any issues save for the Arctic Cheeter mech. i'm having a hard time accepting that mech is not bugged. It is the epitome of easy mode. Very fast, very buggy hit boxes, the mucho Clan SPL alphas w/o heat issues, ecm, and did I mention buggy?

Otherwise, knock on wood, I've not has issues with damage registering where I hit.

[Coolant]

Running on a decent system with decent internet from NA. I don't see a problem really with Hit Registration (lag etc.). I think it is hitboxes. There are null areas on mechs where damage gets swallowed like a black hole (looking at you Arctic Cheetah). I think by now we can all say certain mechs take damage better than others, at least that is my experience. If some mechs take proper damage then it isn't hit registration, it's hitboxes.

Edited by Coolant, 23 November 2015 - 08:40 AM.

[Shadow Magnet]

Try Oceanic servers. For whatever reason, I have fantastic hit reg on that server at the moment. Taking my Wubshee, easily breaking 1000 damage and many kills. Then, switch over to NA or EU servers, I have a hard time getting to 300 dmg and even one kill.

My dakka King Crab works well on the US/EU servers, though. This changes often, before I had several weeks during none of the servers worked reliable for me.

It really kills the fun in MWO for me. Just because the servers have bad mood so often you end up playing Marik roulette...

Who needs skill or rebalancing if hit reg is just plain random?

[Rhaythe]

HIT DETECTION IN A NUTSHELL

Most games run with very simple hit detection. Think of Call of Duty. Either you hit, or you don't, doing X damage if you do. If you hit within a very narrow hit-box region (head), your damage is increased. All of this is removed from a single pool of hit points.

Now move to MWO. Every mech is composed of many different parts, many of which have fronts and backs. Each "part" is composed of internals instead of a pool of hitpoints. Each internal has its own health and is "hittable", even if that's via RNG. You're talking very complex components that must be tracked for 24 units on the field at all times and communicated to every player in near-real-time. Some of these components may even be destroyed with or without affecting the overall unit as a whole.

Issues are bound to arise if you introduce even the smallest amount of latency, and by hosting all of the decision-making software server-side, that's intentionally introducing latency to avoid cheating.

[Sandpit]

I've posted on this before. What many assume is poor hit registration actually isn't. Many times (especially if you are rapid firing or a lot of "crap" is going down at once) the client side won't light up red indicating a hit but still register the damage. I've tested and had others test as well. Even though it doesn't reliably register the hit client side sometimes it still registers it server side and deals the damage normally.

Obviously this isn't always the case based on ping, ISP, etc., but it happens more often than many seem to think. This dates back years.

[burns]

Trying out the tutorial academy for the 1st time when it was released i was surprised how easily a few ac10 rounds can kill targets (any mech, rly)! It was a night & day difference!

[Mister Blastman]

Use pulse lasers. GG you win.

AC/20 and PPCs are just asking for stuff to register. Don't even get me started on SRMs. I might as well be picking daisies and throwing them into the wind, hoping they might hurt the target.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 23 November 2015 - 10:30 AM.

[Aresye]

Rhaythe, on 23 November 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

Now move to MWO. Every mech is composed of many different parts, many of which have fronts and backs. Each "part" is composed of internals instead of a pool of hitpoints. Each internal has its own health and is "hittable", even if that's via RNG. You're talking very complex components that must be tracked for 24 units on the field at all times and communicated to every player in near-real-time. Some of these components may even be destroyed with or without affecting the overall unit as a whole.

With all that needs to be calculated by the server, I'm surprised the game even functions as well as it currently does, given that the servers have an abysmally low tick rate.

For those that don't understand, here's a video that goes over tick rates and HSR as it applies to CS:GO:


MWO servers run around 30 ticks/s, which is pretty much the bare minimum for a "normal" FPS game. I say "normal" because MWO is not a normal FPS, for the reasons you illustrated. Laser hitscan, spread damage, multiple hitboxes, etc. MWO has more to calculate than a normal FPS game like CS:GO, yet PGI runs the tick rate on their servers below CS:GO and other FPS games.

Pretty much all hitreg issues would go away for the majority of players if they upgraded their servers to 64 ticks/s. But that would cost more bandwidth and money, so...unlikely.

[TLBFestus]

That explains why I'm so "ticked" off most of the time.

[Fitch Buckingston]

I had a situation where i tried to hit an enemy with ac20, but instead killed the guy behind him.
Maybe this was just lag, but at least I had a good laugh

[C E Dwyer]

Aresye Kerensky, on 23 November 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

With all that needs to be calculated by the server, I'm surprised the game even functions as well as it currently does, given that the servers have an abysmally low tick rate.

For those that don't understand, here's a video that goes over tick rates and HSR as it applies to CS:GO:


MWO servers run around 30 ticks/s, which is pretty much the bare minimum for a "normal" FPS game. I say "normal" because MWO is not a normal FPS, for the reasons you illustrated. Laser hitscan, spread damage, multiple hitboxes, etc. MWO has more to calculate than a normal FPS game like CS:GO, yet PGI runs the tick rate on their servers below CS:GO and other FPS games.

Pretty much all hitreg issues would go away for the majority of players if they upgraded their servers to 64 ticks/s. But that would cost more bandwidth and money, so...unlikely.

I'm quite prepared to believe this as it explains a lot, you have the info/quotes for the doubters ?