45 replies to this topic

[Talorien]

Multiple games where I'm about to kill a Mech and it dies by overheating. Lame.

Two games where ACH ran straight off Caustic to deny other team a kill. Super lame.

Kill in these cases should go to player with most damage dealt (can even be the suicider). Other suicide penalties should remain in place.

Should increase player satisfaction and reduce trolling behaviour.

[Ragnahawk]

I agree with this.

[FlipOver]

Because you label it trolling doesn't make it so.

Suicide reasons:
1 - Try to keep on fighting, even if it costs the mech, at least one deals more damage before going down
2 - The twitch mentality when you are the last one alive, the dead ones DEMAND you to kill yourself (in any way possible) just so the match ends quicker. THOSE should be banned/warned/fined
3 - Denying the enemy the kill - It's a valid option in any combat situation, why would it be considered trolling in MW:O? You need to pat your ego (stats) that much?
4 - The player is free to suicide, whatever may be his reason. If the team feels like he didn't help in any way, they can report the pilot and let PGI handle it.

What you are looking for here is just a way to tie peoples hands and not give them choices. Always a bad idea.

Edited by FlipOver, 24 November 2015 - 06:06 AM.

[Talorien]

FlipOver, on 24 November 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

What you are looking for here is just a way to tie peoples hands and not give them choices. Always a bad idea.

A player would still be just as free to run off the map and suicide, or to choose to overheat

[FlipOver]

Talorien, on 24 November 2015 - 06:13 AM, said:

A player would still be just as free to run off the map and suicide, or to choose to overheat

Edit - I stand corrected. They have the option but by doing it they are effectively helping the enemy in more ways than one.

People are drawn into defining a good or bad match according to damage and that's a fallacy.
The player suicides and provides the enemy one less mech to destroy.
That action alone helps the enemy, why would we need to help the enemy feel good by seeing increased damage (and c-bills) for something he might not even be the one who caused the suicide?

The pilot chooses to suicide, he's able to achieve it, the enemy only needs to think about one thing: "Good, one less mech to destroy and to shoot back or cap or spot" or "Thank you, we won".

That should be enough, as the important thing in MW:O is winning.

Edited by FlipOver, 24 November 2015 - 06:31 AM.

[Duke Nedo]

I agree with the OP. While I don't think it's wrong to make a last stand and overheat while trying to take one with you, I also think the enemy in this case deserves to get the kill. I do this all the time when I have no hope of finding cover and is about to die. Not to troll the enemy but to get a bit of extra damage out and possibly take one with me - earning me more cbills in the end, or even helping the team to turn the game if it's even.

Running out of bounds to deny the enemy the kill is just artificial. Had there been extraction zones or retreat options implemented it had made sense to do so, but doing so knowing that all you achieve is to deny the enemy the kill is kind of weak imo. Also irrational, because staying in the game and perhaps taking one with you will earn you more cbills.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Any suicide methods: Overheating (Override On), Out of Bounds, and Falling Damage that Destroys Legs, etc... should result in a team kill penalty levied against you. Since you have destroyed a teammate (you), you should be penalized like you would be if you destroyed any of the other 11 people on your team.

Right now people have no issue taking themselves out because their is nothing to lose by doing it. If there was a C-Bill and XP penalty for it, people may think twice.

It wouldn't prevent it suicides, but it would curb a lot of it without preventing people from "going out in a blaze of glory ". If a penalty was instituted, then at least they would have to make a decision if a suicide was worth it. Not to mention that it also creates a greater risk vs reward for running with Override on.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

I see no downside to giving kill/assist credits to anyone who harmed a suicider before he explodes himself. Really, anything that bumps up rewards even a little is almost certainly a good thing.

As for the Team Kill issue, I'd say that it should only apply if you run out of bounds. Overheating, Ejecting, and Fall Damaging could all easily happen entirely legitimately during normal combat activity, but it's hard to say that OoB would do the same. If PGI could figure out a reliable, accurate algorithm to determine if someone dies while fighting, then sure, apply it to all types of suicide (except Ejecting) when the player has been determined not to be in combat (maybe >30s since the last time he took damage from weapons fire?), but they have a lot of other things on their plate and the simplest, easiest thing to do would be to restrict it to OoB suicides.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 24 November 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

I see no downside to giving kill/assist credits to anyone who harmed a suicider before he explodes himself. Really, anything that bumps up rewards even a little is almost certainly a good thing.

As for the Team Kill issue, I'd say that it should only apply if you run out of bounds. Overheating, Ejecting, and Fall Damaging could all easily happen entirely legitimately during normal combat activity, but it's hard to say that OoB would do the same. If PGI could figure out a reliable, accurate algorithm to determine if someone dies while fighting, then sure, apply it to all types of suicide (except Ejecting) when the player has been determined not to be in combat (maybe >30s since the last time he took damage from weapons fire?), but they have a lot of other things on their plate and the simplest, easiest thing to do would be to restrict it to OoB suicides.

Out of bounds for sure, but I'd say include Overheating IF override was on. If a player makes a conscious decision to bypass reactor safeguards, that could be grounds for a suicide penalty if the mech blows. If we were to be more fair, we could always say if a player pushes their mech past 120~140% with override selected, it is considered a suicide. As for the legs, that one might be tricky. Maybe it could be left out.

Really though, rewards for last person to inflict damage before a suicide should be a thing. At least give them assist rewards.

[Tyler Valentine]

MeiSooHaityu, on 24 November 2015 - 07:23 AM, said:

Any suicide methods: Overheating (Override On), Out of Bounds, and Falling Damage that Destroys Legs, etc... should result in a team kill penalty levied against you. Since you have destroyed a teammate (you), you should be penalized like you would be if you destroyed any of the other 11 people on your team.

Right now people have no issue taking themselves out because their is nothing to lose by doing it. If there was a C-Bill and XP penalty for it, people may think twice.

It wouldn't prevent it suicides, but it would curb a lot of it without preventing people from "going out in a blaze of glory ". If a penalty was instituted, then at least they would have to make a decision if a suicide was worth it. Not to mention that it also creates a greater risk vs reward for running with Override on.

Sometimes, in an untenable position, going out in a blaze of glory is the best thing you can do for the team. There shouldn't be a penalty for getting off one more alpha before you're focus fired down.

To the OP: Worry about W/L not K/D.

[DarkMetalBlade]

Aww, the OP was denied of his satisfaction one too many times?

I've got one thing to say to you: CRY SOME MORE!!!

Until surrender/retreat is made an option in this game, the suicidal behavior is here to stay. Also, there already is enough penalties for suicide as it is, such as putting yourself at risk for being moderated each time one does so.

People suicide in this game not only to deny people like you the pleasures of killing them, but to also get out of a bad match ASAP.

Edited by DarkMetalBlade, 24 November 2015 - 10:31 AM.

[Jabilac]

MeiSooHaityu, on 24 November 2015 - 07:23 AM, said:

Any suicide methods: Overheating (Override On), Out of Bounds, and Falling Damage that Destroys Legs, etc... should result in a team kill penalty levied against you. Since you have destroyed a teammate (you), you should be penalized like you would be if you destroyed any of the other 11 people on your team.

^ This. A suicide is a team kill. You are killing a member of your team and should be penalized accordingly even if its an accident. I've accidentally killed team mates with AC/20 shots as they ran into the projectile after I fired. It was an accident and I was still penalized. You overheat enough to blow yourself up, you run OOB, you JJ up really high and then fall down and destroy your legs. All those things are conscious actions that should have repercussions.

I also agree that in the event of a suicide the enemies that damaged you should get an assist and a MDD award to the enemy that did the most damage.

[Mystere]

Talorien, on 24 November 2015 - 05:54 AM, said:

Multiple games where I'm about to kill a Mech and it dies by overheating. Lame.

Two games where ACH ran straight off Caustic to deny other team a kill. Super lame.

Kill in these cases should go to player with most damage dealt (can even be the suicider). Other suicide penalties should remain in place.

Should increase player satisfaction and reduce trolling behaviour.

Only stat farmers should be worrying about getting credit. As in all things, winning is what should count.

[DarthHias]

I always run with Override engaged because I know my heat, I know when to break 100% and shutdown manually after reaching cover and when to blow a cool shot to avoid instadeath. When I´m forced into a battle I´m sure I have no chance of winning I take more risks, so sometimes I die of overheating instead of enemy fire.

I would be perfectly fine with the kill being awarded to
a ) the player that dealt the most damage to me
b ) the last enemy to hit me with a weapon as in the killing blow achievement

Edited by DarthHias, 24 November 2015 - 11:04 AM.

[FupDup]

Overheating suicides shouldn't be lumped in with running out of bounds, because usually the overheating person at least tries to hurt the enemy as much as possible before they go down. If you know you're about to die, might as well punch the other guy in the face before you meet that fate.

I have not one ounce of sympathy for out of bounds suicides, however.

Edited by FupDup, 24 November 2015 - 11:03 AM.

[Mystere]

Duke Nedo, on 24 November 2015 - 06:43 AM, said:

Running out of bounds to deny the enemy the kill is just artificial. Had there been extraction zones or retreat options implemented it had made sense to do so, but doing so knowing that all you achieve is to deny the enemy the kill is kind of weak imo. Also irrational, because staying in the game and perhaps taking one with you will earn you more cbills.

Since when did denying the enemy the kill "irrational"?

Oh! I guess a farmer would think so.

[Duke Nedo]

Mystere, on 24 November 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

Since when did denying the enemy the kill "irrational"?

Oh! I guess a farmer would think so.

Last sentence, read again. :-)

[Mystere]

Duke Nedo, on 24 November 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

Last sentence, read again. :-)

Nope. No need to read.

When one is already losing or about to die, padding stats and increasing earnings mean nothing. Your next of kin do not get any real benefits from them.

Edited by Mystere, 24 November 2015 - 11:16 AM.

[Screech]

If you are that hard up for getting a kill I feel bad for you son, MWO got 99 problems but this ain't one.

[Almond Brown]

When it reads "IDJIT killed IDJIT" there are only 2 feelings that come to mind.

When the text announcing it is in [color] RED [/color] a "YES! Well done IDJIT" is always appropriate, while

When it is in [color] BLUE [/color] a "DOH! Well GD it IDJIT! Wtf..."is also appropriate.

Beyond that, not much one can do really. They are already "dead" when either text color comes up right?