20 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

Greetings Mechwarriors. I, like many of you, are of the opinion that the changes to the agility skills are a good idea... but why poor Speed Tweak? If you're going to change it to make this game more new pilot friendly why not replace it with a different skill and improve the engines?

[50 50]

While it's nice to have that bonus, if everyone loses it, there's no real difference.
It may make equipment such as MASC more noticeably effective.
I also would not be surprised if we see additional modules or perhaps specific skills for different variants that improve these areas.
That would be interesting.

[SpiralFace]

50 50, on 26 November 2015 - 06:50 PM, said:

While it's nice to have that bonus, if everyone loses it, there's no real difference.
It may make equipment such as MASC more noticeably effective.
I also would not be surprised if we see additional modules or perhaps specific skills for different variants that improve these areas.
That would be interesting.

It also puts a heavier emphasis on EQUIPMENT customization rather then relying on a free pilot skill to get everything you need.

Lets be honest, the fact that it essentially acted as a 3-5 tier higher engine rating boost for no tonnage is exactly why it is considered the most valuable pilot skill there. Now if you want to go faster, you need to invest in the engine itself and not rely on the free upgrades. Its still easily going to be the most powerful skill there, and was nerfed significantly less then the other pilot skills.

[Wraith 1]

The numbers on my hud are different than the ones I'm used to.

For absolutely no other reason, the speed tweak nerf annoys me far more than any other change on the PTS.

[PraetorGix]

SpiralFace, on 26 November 2015 - 10:43 PM, said:

Now if you want to go faster, you need to invest in the engine itself and not rely on the free upgrades. Its still easily going to be the most powerful skill there, and was nerfed significantly less then the other pilot skills.

Yeeaaaah, what an amazingly illuminated concept, lemme just grab another engine and swap it on my CLAN MECHS WITH LOCKED ENGINES.

[Scanz]

Cmdr Hurrell, on 27 November 2015 - 07:51 PM, said:

Yeeaaaah, what an amazingly illuminated concept, lemme just grab another engine and swap it on my CLAN MECHS WITH LOCKED ENGINES.

clan mechs already much faster then IS
and speed dont needed in current game, becouse we have ******** skirmish with 5min gameplay and small maps

Edited by Scanz, 30 November 2015 - 10:42 AM.

[Felio]

The only issue I see is that IS lights already normally bring the max engine, and the skill is percentage-based, so it hits them harder already.

Clan lights can't change their engines, and we don't need to nerf them all just because the ACH can bring 6 clan lasers.

I do understand wanting to close the gap between new mechs and mastered ones a bit. Maybe other things will be done to help lights and make up for this, but I suspect it will be something like arm movement speed and they'll call it a day.

[AnimeFreak40K]

Scanz, on 30 November 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

clan mechs already much faster then IS and speed dont needed in current game, becouse we have ******** skirmish with 5min gameplay and small maps

No, they aren't. Speed is based on engine rating and tonnage of the mech it's put into.
A Spider (30 tons) with a 240 engine (ST or XL) goes 129.6 kph (142.6 with Speed Tweak).
...this is the exact same speed as an Arctic Cheetah, which happens to also be 30 tons and have a 240 engine.

Guess what the speed of a Raven with a 210 engine is? The *EXACT* same speed as an Adder!

Now, you *MAY* be getting the idea that some Clan mechs are faster than IS mechs of the equivalent tonnage (the Timberwolf comes to mind), but that is because the Timberwolf has a 375 engine, and every single 75 ton IS mech caps out at 360. The only exception to this is the BL-7-KNT-L, which can go up to 385.

But guess what that Black Knight is going with a 375 engine in it? It's going 81kph (89.1 with Speed Tweak)...which is the exact speed of the Timberwolf.

Edited by AnimeFreak40K, 30 November 2015 - 11:25 AM.

[PraetorGix]

Felio, on 30 November 2015 - 11:14 AM, said:

I do understand wanting to close the gap between new mechs and mastered ones a bit. Maybe other things will be done to help lights and make up for this, but I suspect it will be something like arm movement speed and they'll call it a day.

And the most f*cked up thing of it all is, they are downgrading new users to tier 5, so all they will face is other newbies or pilots who are so bad that mastered mechs wouldn't matter.
So, they are nerfing the skills for no other reason than some dev acting on a whim.

[DivineEvil]

I don't think the skill tree will last much after PGI will actually get some time to redesign it, so I don't much care.

[Rogue Jedi]

AnimeFreak40K, on 30 November 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

No, they aren't. Speed is based on engine rating and tonnage of the mech it's put into.
A Spider (30 tons) with a 240 engine (ST or XL) goes 129.6 kph (142.6 with Speed Tweak).
...this is the exact same speed as an Arctic Cheetah, which happens to also be 30 tons and have a 240 engine.

Guess what the speed of a Raven with a 210 engine is? The *EXACT* same speed as an Adder!

Now, you *MAY* be getting the idea that some Clan mechs are faster than IS mechs of the equivalent tonnage (the Timberwolf comes to mind), but that is because the Timberwolf has a 375 engine, and every single 75 ton IS mech caps out at 360. The only exception to this is the BL-7-KNT-L, which can go up to 385.

But guess what that Black Knight is going with a 375 engine in it? It's going 81kph (89.1 with Speed Tweak)...which is the exact speed of the Timberwolf.

you are not wrong but the issue is that the Clan Mechs have lighter longer range or higher damage weapons and lighter or more compact equipment and upgrades, building a Mech the equivalent of e.g. the Timber Wolf Prime with IS tech is not possible, due to the higher weight LRM and ERLL, as well as less compact Endo and Fero you ether have to go smaller engine or heavier chassis, both of which mean slower movement speed for the Mech.

PGI have done a pretty good job of balancing IS and Clan Mechs, especially considering their reluctance to deviate too far from the source material but they balanced by making Clan Mechs spread their damage while IS Mech have an easier time holding weapons on a single complainant for full damage

[AnimeFreak40K]

Rogue Jedi, on 30 November 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

you are not wrong but the issue is that the Clan Mechs have lighter longer range or higher damage weapons and lighter or more compact equipment and upgrades, building a Mech the equivalent of e.g. the Timber Wolf Prime with IS tech is not possible, due to the higher weight LRM and ERLL, as well as less compact Endo and Fero you ether have to go smaller engine or heavier chassis, both of which mean slower movement speed for the Mech.

PGI have done a pretty good job of balancing IS and Clan Mechs, especially considering their reluctance to deviate too far from the source material but they balanced by making Clan Mechs spread their damage while IS Mech have an easier time holding weapons on a single complainant for full damage

I wasn't commenting on anything you just mentioned. My statement was a direct retort to the guy who claimed that "Clan Mechs are faster", which is not true. If anything, most Inner Sphere mechs have the potential to be faster than Clans.

[Bleary]

AnimeFreak40K, on 30 November 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

I wasn't commenting on anything you just mentioned. My statement was a direct retort to the guy who claimed that "Clan Mechs are faster", which is not true. If anything, most Inner Sphere mechs have the potential to be faster than Clans.

Only if we're talking about non-Cheetah Clan lights or Battlemasters with 400XLs.

Ice Ferret, Shadow Cat, Stormcrow, EBJ, Hellbringer, Summoner, Timber Wolf, Gargoyle . . .all of these are among the fastest, if not the fastest, 'Mechs at their weights. The Clans are faster almost across the board from 45-80 tons.

[AnimeFreak40K]

Really? Because I have this list of Inner Sphere mechs that say you're wrong:

Ice Ferret can be outrun by the following mechs depending on the engine that's put in:
All Cicadas (5 tons lighter, but still Medium Class)

Shadow Cat can be outrun by the following mechs depending on the engine that's put in:
All Cicadas (5 tons lighter, but still Medium Class)
Blackjack 1X (same tonnage)
Vindicator 1AA (same tonnage)
All Crabs (5 tons heavier, but still Medium Class)
Centurion D and the Yen-Lo-Wang (5 tons heavier, but still Medium Class)
All Enforcers (except the 4R, 5 tons heavier, but still Medium Class)
All Trebuchets (5 tons heavier, but still Medium Class)
All Griffins (10 tons heavier, but still Medium Class)
All Kintaros (10 tons heavier, but still Medium Class)
All Shadowhawks (10 tons heavier, but still Medium Class)
All Wolverines (10 tons heavier, but still Medium Class)

Stormcrows can be outrun by the following mechs depending on their engine:
All Cicadas (15 tons lighter, but still Medium Class)
Blackjack 1X (5 tons lighter, but still Medium Class)
Vindicator 1AA (5 tons lighter, but still Medium Class)
All Crabs (5 tons lighter, but still Medium Class)
Centurion D and the Yen-Lo-Wang (5 tons lighter, but still Medium Class)
All Enforcers (except the 4R, 5 tons lighter, but still Medium Class)
All Trebuchets (5 tons lighter, but still Medium Class)
All Griffins (same tonnage)
All Kintaros (same tonnage)
All Shadowhawks (same tonnage)
All Wolverines (same tonnage)

Ebon Jaguars and Hellbringers can be outrun by the following mechs depending on their engine: 81/87.1
All Dragons (5 tons lighter, but still Heavy Class)
All Quickdraws (5 tons lighter, but still Heavy Class)
Firebrand (same tonnage)
Grasshopper 5J (5 tons heavier, but still Heavy Class)
Black Knight L (10 tons heavier, but still Heavy Class)

Summoners can be outrun by the following mechs depending on their engine:
All Dragons (10 tons lighter, but still Heavy Class)
All Quickdraws (10 tons lighter, but still Heavy Class)
Firebrand (5 tons lighter, but still Heavy Class)
Grasshopper 5J (same tonnage)
Black Knight L (5 tons heavier, but still Heavy Class)

Timber Wolfs can be outrun by the following mechs depending on their engine:
All Dragons (15 tons lighter, but still Heavy Class)
All Quickdraws (15 tons lighter, but still Heavy Class)
Firebrand (10 tons lighter, but still Heavy Class)
Grasshopper 5J (5 tons lighter, but still Heavy Class)
Black Knight L (same tonnage)

The only one I'm going to give you is the Gargoyal because it is 80 tons and equips the largest engine (400). Only the Pretty Baby and Dragon Slayer can match it because they are the only variants that are 80 tons and can equip that engine, all others run slower than that.

tl;dr: Clan Mediums run at 97.2 KPH (with the exception of the Ice Ferret, which is 129.6), Clan Heavies run at 81 KPH and the Gargoyal is designed to run with Heavies (hence why it can keep up with them). These mechs have the appropriate engine installed so they can run at that speed.

[Carl Vickers]

What we see is the difference between a planned speed of engagement, ie clans and full customisation, ie IS.

The clans built their machines in mind with speed of engagement. It is a lot easier to keep a group of mechs together when they run the same speed.

Issue we have is IS insta death on side torso loss when running an XL. Fix that and IS would prolly do the same as clan.

[Karl Streiger]

AnimeFreak40K, on 30 November 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

I wasn't commenting on anything you just mentioned. My statement was a direct retort to the guy who claimed that "Clan Mechs are faster", which is not true. If anything, most Inner Sphere mechs have the potential to be faster than Clans.

Light bla bla... who is talking about freaking Lights?
Ok want to have a 75t Is Mech that is faster as a. Timber Wolf and as durable.
Ok IS heavys may carry more weapons if you just scratch the surface speaking of tons.
While the next mega quirk pass for Clan Mechs their mobility is much improved but given the choice between this mobility quirk or ES or more HPs i would take Es all the time for Summoner

Edited by Karl Streiger, 03 December 2015 - 10:43 PM.

[AnimeFreak40K]

Karl Streiger, on 03 December 2015 - 10:36 PM, said:

Light bla bla... who is talking about freaking Lights? Ok want to have a 75t Is Mech that is faster as a. Timber Wolf and as durable. Ok IS heavys may carry more weapons if you just scratch the surface speaking of tons. While the next mega quirk pass for Clan Mechs their mobility is much improved but given the choice between this mobility quirk or ES or more HPs i would take Es all the time for Summoner

I dunno, I haven't found Timbers to be excessively durable, either when using them or facing off against them, but then again, I also have no problems in aiming for their STs either.

The fact of the matter is that the only reason why the Timberwolf is as fast as it is is because it has an engine bigger than almost every other IS mech of the same weight.

[Ey3cD34Dppl]

...guess the only misconception in this thread is that IS mechs can be as fast, but will have eather a low amount of armor and/or weaponary. Instead of simply stating that Clan mechs are faster.

Clan mechs are faster if the IS mech wants to mount a comparable amount of weaponary and armor. As there are a lot of advantages regarding weight of equipments/weapons and used slots on the Clan mech side.

That's it.

Just my 2 cents

[Kyrs]

It more a player choice that make that make the IS mech slow, ppl just want to put more bigger gun.

You can have almost the same speed with the Black knight.
To me 5.8 kph isn't a big deal considering it can to this with standard engines.

Black knight
knt 6
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9e968650bf46f9a
knt 6b
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bc91a4f71418241
knt 7
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3f579d780fc4a1e

you can also reduce to 345 (80.1kph)and go full armor, it all about players choice.

Edited by Kyrs, 08 December 2015 - 09:54 AM.

[Rocket2Uranus]

My Direwolf literally stalls to like 5 kmh when I go even near a pebble.

If I run into a small hill or a small pebble, I lose about 100m from my squad. And pretty much get stuck behind battle or get owned by light mechs. Because I can't even turn around fast enough before my rear armor is ripped apart.

So slow I can't even park my butt onto a building/hill.

YEP!!! They sure know how to balance... lol NOT