20 replies to this topic

[PFC Carsten]

Russ,

In the december roadmap i found this:

Quote

Addition of a one-time introductory pop-up message when clicking the Faction Play button, designed to let new players know that Faction Play is a hardcore mode with no skill-matching in place, and recommending that they should consider starting in Quick Play until they are ready.

To me, reading this sound like you have no plans or intentions whatsoever to introduce a matchmaker for the artist formerly known as Community Warfare, who is now performing under the new symbol of "Faction Play".

If you read nothing else, please consider this:
For every seal clubbing there is, players on the receiving end will think it matters less and less what they do instead of thinking about and trying to improve, which would be the result of a very close match. They will often just Leroy, be AFK or disconnect right away, leaving the rest of their team at an even greater disadvantage and thus, increasingly frustrated. That includes those with still high hopes or those trying to organize a herd of PUGs into a team.

It thoroughly keeps players from wanting to improve to have an indifferent attitude to the game. Quite the contrary of what a F2P should be trying to achieve.

So, tl;dr: Consider making CW/FP a game mode, everyone can enjoy and not only a however small minority.


If you have further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me!

Edited by PFC Carsten, 28 November 2015 - 09:13 AM.

[TranceAholic]

Oh god not another "I choose not to participate in organized play therefore I get seal clubbed" thread.

And there was never any consideration for a CW match maker, ever. That is simply wishful thinking by the loner wolves who refuse to participate in organized play because they lack the social skills to get along with 11 other people for 20 minutes. It's not endemic to CW either, happens in the group queue often, and there there is a match maker.

The players who don't want to improve, won't, ever. That's their choice. The players that do want to improve, will That is also their choice. And then they will club those that chose not to improve. That is fact and a result of the former's choice, not the latter's.

[vocifer]

CW needs objectives at first place. It may bring many good players and units back to game.

As for new steam players, they'll be ok. They're not so spoiled as our current community.

There are tons of MMO projects where pugs can't do ANYTHING to the enemy deathball. At all! With (f***g) heals, buffs, stuns and so on, you can't do any damage or even run away. And you earn NOTHING at the end.
In MWO common scenario of 12man vs pugs is about 48:24 where solos still KILL HALF of premade team (with the help of dropships)! And earn their DESERVED LP according to the damage done.

[PFC Carsten]

Thank you for your replies, kind as they are.

Edited by PFC Carsten, 28 November 2015 - 09:13 AM.

[DoctorDetroit]

Matchmaker doesn't equalize team skill in solo queue. Why on earth would anyone think it would in CW/Faction Play? My vote goes to making CW more strategic for units. Manage resources, planets, in depth contracts, and invest in invasions/raids/scout missions. Also, leadership boards for proper bragging rights.

Solo players could enjoy an individualized version of these as well, but may face a tougher time if they do not organize with allied units/lone wolves.

[Krellshand]

I see the point.

My vote goes for Pug planets on the peripherie without inpact on the greater star map. Pirate Planets or sth like that.

I don´t have the time to fight a losing battle against premades, or rather chose not to waste my time with that.

And yes, I lack the social WILL to participate in any organized group of whatever kind there is. My time is precious. No time to waste waiting for ppl to feed their cat or take a piss until we are ready. Sorry, just not worth the time.
And yes, that means I usually dont play CW at all - which hurts MWO because I did pay close to a thousand bucks (counted today... ) and may be spending it elswhere if I get bored

I have money, time is rare - pug stomps are a waste of time I cant / wont afford

[DoctorDetroit]

Krellshand, on 28 November 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

I see the point.

My vote goes for Pug planets on the peripherie without inpact on the greater star map. Pirate Planets or sth like that.

I don´t have the time to fight a losing battle against premades, or rather chose not to waste my time with that.

And yes, I lack the social WILL to participate in any organized group of whatever kind there is. My time is precious. No time to waste waiting for ppl to feed their cat or take a piss until we are ready. Sorry, just not worth the time.
And yes, that means I usually dont play CW at all - which hurts MWO because I did pay close to a thousand bucks (counted today... ) and may be spending it elswhere if I get bored

I have money, time is rare - pug stomps are a waste of time I cant / wont afford

I like the idea of making the periphery the PUG area. Especially, if Phase 3 is going to set up a dynamic economy for units. Units might not want solo players losing their planets for them.

[Krellshand]

You could even go further:

No LP points for PUG planets, because no faction owns them, no reward for holding the planet etc. As soon as you pick a faction, you go the normal route. And yes, I can see the point of having pugs lose your hard fought for planet because Davion has a big playerbase or sth like that.

For ppl like me who dont care about LP, Rewards or Starmaps and just want to sit down, have a match or two this would be perfectly fine. Keeps both sides happy, and snydrop is not a problem

[Prussian Havoc]

There is just not enough population in Commuity Warfare for anything more than "First-Come, First-Served."

An ELO or Tier-based MatchMaker is just not possible.

Edited by Prussian Havoc, 28 November 2015 - 10:32 AM.

[Ace Selin]

Or.... i dont know you could maybe hop onto your Faction TS and drop with actual players you can better coordinate with, try a few units and join a causal friendly one (there are a number of them from my CW encounters) and actually make a go of the Faction Play mode as it was intended ... instead of acting like you cant change your own way of playing and your own fate, because you can, ive done it. Search my earliest CW posts and you'll find i was pro lone wolf and anti unit, until i realised the error of my ways and have had much more fun, even when losing (but playing with my unit as a coordinated team) than i did as a PUG.

[Lazor Sharp]

""Addition of a one-time introductory pop-up message when clicking the Faction Play button, designed to let new players know that Faction Play is a hardcore mode with no skill-matching in place, and recommending that they should consider starting in Quick Play until they are ready.""

See, Russ just totally misses the point, when he recommends for new players to play in the solo Q, when the pop up should encourage them to join a unit first thing, so they can learn how to play as a coordinated team first thing, and NEVER EVER let them learn how to be stray cats first thing.......

While i understand why some ppl don't want to join a unit and play with other ppl, To me, playing with the other guys as a coordinated team, and the social aspect is sometimes more fun than the game......

If not for the social aspect, i would just go load up MW4 mercs and play the AI

Edited by Lazor Sharp, 28 November 2015 - 01:27 PM.

[PFC Carsten]

DoctorDetroit, on 28 November 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

Matchmaker doesn't equalize team skill in solo queue.

Matchmaker could - as one of many parameters - be fed with the distinction between groups and solos, be it on their own peripheral planets or not. I think there was a reason why quick play had it's queues split. If I remember right it was to keep players from leaving the game out of frustration. Might be wrong though.

Prussian Havoc, on 28 November 2015 - 10:31 AM, said:

There is just not enough population in Commuity Warfare for anything more than "First-Come, First-Served."

An ELO or Tier-based MatchMaker is just not possible.

So we're already seeing the results of a very imbalanced game mode. How exactly would the Steam crowd react differently than veteran players when faced with the frustration that is CW/FP right now?

Make no mistake, the Steam launch is potentially the last big influx of players into MWO. The only chance to keep CW/FP as a valid game mode instead of the barren wasteland it is outside of events, is for as high a percentage of the new players to like to play in this mode. Thus, they just must not be totally frustrated in their first experiences with CW/FP - and I severly doubt that a one-time pop-up with a warning would suffice.

I want CW/FP to succeed, but in order to do this, it needs players, players and more players.

[Prussian Havoc]

Lazor Sharp, on 28 November 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

Spoiler

""Addition of a one-time introductory pop-up message when clicking the Faction Play button, designed to let new players know that Faction Play is a hardcore mode with no skill-matching in place, and recommending that they should consider starting in Quick Play until they are ready.""

See, Russ just totally misses the point, when he recommends for new players to play in the solo Q, when the pop up should encourage them to join a unit first thing, so they can learn how to play as a coordinated team first thing, and NEVER EVER let them learn how to be stray cats first thing.......

While i understand why some ppl don't want to join a unit and play with other ppl, To me, playing with the other guys as a coordinated team, and the social aspect is sometimes more fun than the game......

If not for the social aspect, i would just go load up MW4 mercs and play the AI

Why limit the population base of MWO?

Some gamers enjoy best gaming within Units.

Some gamers enjoy best Solo-gaming.

Recognize and encourage both sets to gamers to learn game mechanics and to grow in skill and proficiency.

This subject is really NOT an "us" or "them" topic. Over time membership in Unit transitions to another Unit or Solo-gaming for a time or a mixture of both. Tolerance of both Units and Solo-gamers is best.

[Lazor Sharp]

that is all well and good, but then you end up with 2 kinds of threads.....

1. All i ever get for team mates is Stray Cat's / Solos / moron PUGS who cant hit the side of a barn....

2. All i ever go up against, is 5-12 man premades that baby seal clubs stomp me over and over......

so if you are tired of being a baby seal than join a unit and learn how to play a team game as a TEAM and not a stray cat

And what better way to fix this problem, than if the devs made it as easy as possible, and every incentive possible to join a unit and play as a team from day 1, we would not see these 2 kinds of threads so often........

Edited by Lazor Sharp, 28 November 2015 - 02:38 PM.

[Prussian Havoc]

PFC Carsten, on 28 November 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

Spoiler

Matchmaker could - as one of many parameters - be fed with the distinction between groups and solos, be it on their own peripheral planets or not. I think there was a reason why quick play had it's queues split. If I remember right it was to keep players from leaving the game out of frustration. Might be wrong though.



So we're already seeing the results of a very imbalanced game mode. How exactly would the Steam crowd react differently than veteran players when faced with the frustration that is CW/FP right now?

Make no mistake, the Steam launch is potentially the last big influx of players into MWO. The only chance to keep CW/FP as a valid game mode instead of the barren wasteland it is outside of events, is for as high a percentage of the new players to like to play in this mode. Thus, they just must not be totally frustrated in their first experiences with CW/FP - and I severly doubt that a one-time pop-up with a warning would suffice.

I want CW/FP to succeed, but in order to do this, it needs players, players and more players.

Quick play has the luxury of (as Russ would say) a Solo "bucket" and a Unit "bucket" and never the two shall mix. CW/FP is not so fortunate / has a smaller gamer-base.

While Steam will open access to many gamers, a fairly significant portion will be new to MWO/BattleTech. However Steam is by no means the only chance to keep CW/FP a "valid game mode." Personally I think the upcoming 4v4 CW/FP game mode could significantly increase CW participation. Maybe 4v4 will ONLY be available to Solos (much friendlier to Steam-gamers as an introduction to CW/FP) preserving for both Solos and Units the current 12v12 CW/FP game mode. Besides Units can always "synch-drop" as individuals into 4v4 if they should wish to roll the dice on being assigned to the same 4v4 mission.

Steamers by nature just might be more drawn to MWO Solo gameplay than those of us who came up through Cresent Hawks Inception, CH Revenge, MW through MW4, Mech Commander 1, 2 and Gold with many a membership in prior BattleTech gaming Units. Let's encourage Steamer interest in MWO and not try to shoehorn them into Units too early. It is my experience if the gaming experience is compelling enough the result of individual matches is less important than the thrill of game mechanics.

Edited by Prussian Havoc, 28 November 2015 - 02:40 PM.

[Lazor Sharp]

Playing a TEAM GAME AS A SOLO player just is the most un team thing that can happen to a new player.... it teaches them all the BAD stupid things first rattle out of the box, and does not give them the Knowledge that the Vets have in how to coordinate and play a TEAM GAME AS A TEAM first rattle out of the box... so Shoe horning newbies into a unit is not a bad thing.... they can always solo if they want to, but dont come crying here about being a baby seal, and QQ quit, when you refuse to learn how to play a TEAM GAME AS A TEAM.......

[Tarogato]

For crying out loud, World of Tanks doesn't even have a skill-based or Elo-based matchmaking system. And you're whining that MWO doesn't get one in its hardcore/unit-intended faction warfare gamemode?

Let me say that again.

- World of Tanks does NOT have skill-based matchmaking, it puts you in a bucket based on what tier tank you're driving.
- War Thunder does NOT have skill-based matchmaking, it matches you with and against players whose planes/tanks have similar battle ratings to yours (just like BV in BattleTech).
- World of Warships does NOT have skill-based matchmaking (although it does have a Ranked queue that you can only access using certain ships)
- Warframe does NOT have skill-based matchmaking

Now if these games don't have it, who are we to whine that we, an even more niche game than any of the above, should get it? In fact, do you even have any idea what you're asking for? You're asking for the impossible. There are only so many people interested in playing the Invasion and Counterattack gamemodes. Those people play CW. There are not enough of though people to sustain any sort of skill-based matchmaking, so having one in place would be meaningless.

[Prussian Havoc]

Lazor Sharp, on 28 November 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

Spoiler

Playing a TEAM GAME AS A SOLO player just is the most un team thing that can happen to a new player.... it teaches them all the BAD stupid things first rattle out of the box, and does not give them the Knowledge that the Vets have in how to coordinate and play a TEAM GAME AS A TEAM first rattle out of the box... so Shoe horning newbies into a unit is not a bad thing.... they can always solo if they want to, but dont come crying here about being a baby seal, and QQ quit, when you refuse to learn how to play a TEAM GAME AS A TEAM.......

There is a middle ground, a way of attracting gamers to Community Warfare that is New-Gamer/Solo-Gamer Friendly - keep 12v12 as is but when 4v4 comes online, dedicate it completely to Solo-gamers. And take synch-dropping out of the equation as only one member of the Four could come from any one Unit. In-game VOIP exists now, Teamspeak is redundant. PGI should take this opportunity to expand CW beyond UNITS and be inclusive of Solo-gamers with this next CW mode of gameplay.

Current UNIT ATTITUDE can be too elitist, too exclusionary. PGI really does have an opportunity in how they structure 4v4 game play to reverse these unfortunate trends and introduce a new generation of gamers to COMMUNITY WARFARE... and not merely UNIT WARFARE.

Edited by Prussian Havoc, 29 November 2015 - 08:16 AM.

[Lazor Sharp]

PGI really does have an opportunity in how they structure 4v4 game play to reverse these unfortunate trends and introduce a new generation of gamers to COMMUNITY WARFARE... and get them into units asap so they never learn how to be stray cats / baby seals to start with""" fixed that for ya....

my unit is as casual as it gets, there is no elitist BS......
WE are Clan Lone Wolf, and we are all Lone Wolf types, but we come together to play a Team based Game AS a coordinated TEAM!!!!!!! vs playing as a bunch of solo stray cats, who become baby seals, that we see and hear about so often

Edited by Lazor Sharp, 29 November 2015 - 08:32 AM.

[Prussian Havoc]

Lazor Sharp, on 29 November 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

Spoiler

PGI really does have an opportunity in how they structure 4v4 game play to reverse these unfortunate trends and introduce a new generation of gamers to COMMUNITY WARFARE... and get them into units asap so they never learn how to be stray cats / baby seals to start with""" fixed that for ya....

my unit is as casual as it gets, there is no elitist BS......
WE are Clan Lone Wolf, and we are all Lone Wolf types, but we come together to play a Team based Game AS a coordinated TEAM!!!!!!! vs playing as a bunch of solo stray cats, who become baby seals, that we see and hear about so often

I see what you did there!

Encouraging Steamers/New gamers to join a Unit that is supportive of their style of gameplay is all right and proper (and I have heard some excellent comments about Clan Lone Wolf, good on you all!) but MWO CW can be so very much more than just UNIT WARFARE.

I enjoy each match (whatever the outcome) and measure match success and failure not by if I won or lost but by the results achieved given disparity of force sets. Maybe it is a Zen-style of gaming...