99 replies to this topic

[Moldur]

You have to pay for mech slots unless you are milking CW. Have fun doing that with 3 starting slots and trial mechs.

The startup grind in MWO is prohibitive for most people. Also, you're not allowed to do what you want until you have a decent fortune, because whether or not you think a mech is fun, it is hell to grind in some crappy mechs you bought for fun when they are all you have, and you only have a few million c-bills, half-decent builds, and have to pay for all your weapons because you're buying everything for the first time.

Premium time makes a huge difference. It's like 7 bucks a month. If you've got a month with a lot of free time, buy premium time and play your brains out. You'll be sitting on tens of millions if not more c-bills by the end of it.

Premium time in this game makes one of the biggest differences in grind that I have ever seen, and after you have a lot of stuff accrued, the game is a lot more enjoyable.

Mechwarrior Online is truly one of the most Free********** games out there. The game makes a person VERY inclined to spend money on Mech bays and premium time (at least for awhile) in order to have a worthwhile account in less than a year or two.
**********(To 'play')

[rollermint]

The grind is there (well they need to make money after all) but its not unbearable. It feels just about right.

With the nerfs to skill trees soon its not much of a handicap for brand new mechs. Heck, I played for weeks on end WITHOUT realising at first that I actually have skill trees to unlock and I don't really feel that I was wholly disadvantaged without them.

So, the grind is only going to be even shorter.

[TexAce]

Tarogato, on 29 November 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

Ordinarily I compare MWO to World of Tanks because they are identical style games. But what's the point in comparing two games that are so ridiculously grindy? I would say that World of Tanks is much worse than MWO and it's even P2W to boot, yet it's still an extraordinarily popular game with one of the highest populations in the online gaming industry at the moment and it's been around for a quite a long time now.

*shrug*

There are people who like to spend cash to be "better" than others. Like billionairs, wealthy russians and sheikhs.

But since MWO has no P2W and no leaderboards its not interesting to them. They cant buy themselves skill here nor recognition.

[Pjwned]

Herr Vorragend, on 29 November 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

I personally don't find the grind too hard. In general I'm looking forward to grind out a new chassis although there aren't many left to do. You need to see this as a challenge that might take a very long time. And I like games that keep me coming back again and again.

It's not challenging to grind out new mechs, it is only tedium.

[Lorian Sunrider]

Premium time makes big difference. In a quick match win, I'm averaging 350-400K per win on average. A few outliers for sure. In a loss its usually about 100-120K these days.

In CW for the event I was earning an average of around 700K per match plus the 300K win reward so 1 Million ish per match. I earned over ten million in the nine CW matches I've played, and that doesn't even include the event money. After the event Money I bought a Hellbringer straight up for c-bills and still had more than I started the event CW portion with.

Its gotten significantly better.

That being said I'm also one of those people who buys a single version of each engine/module and then just strips it off at the end of each usage. That helps, a lot.

Edited by Lorian Sunrider, 30 November 2015 - 08:59 AM.

[Roadkill]

Black Fish, on 29 November 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

When I started playing I remember I thought the grind was pretty intense...
But after an approximate comparison with the only other game I play, League of Legends, I found MWO to be not as terrible as I thought:
MWO

• Currency earning per match: ~100,000 C-Bills
  
• Average match duration: ~10 minutes
  
• Average 'Mech costs: 10,000,000 C-Bills (this is a really rough estimation, upgrades included)
  
• Hours needed to unlock a 'Mech: 'Mech cost \ currency earning * match duration: 16:40 hours

PGI said (a long time ago) that average earnings/match was 79k c-bills. That was before the recent buff, though, so your 100k estimate may be reasonable now.

Average in-game match duration may be 10 minutes, but that's optimistic for total turn-around time. Including searching, etc, it's probably more accurate to use 12 minutes per match if not 15. 5 games per hour is really pushing it, especially if you're doing any observation. If you're sticking around to observe (which newbies absolutely should be doing) then 4 games per hour is a better measure.

Average 'Mech cost for a competitive 'Mech is probably higher than 10M if you include all customization costs. 12M is probably closer, I would guess, though of course it would be lower for mediums and lights. 10M makes for easier math, though, so I guess that's reasonable.

Your hours needed to unlock a 'Mech is just to buy it. It's not unlocked at that point - you still have to level up the skill trees. Once you have a few 'Mechs, though, the time spent unlocking the skill trees doubles as earning time for the next purchase. I've found that it generally takes longer to earn the c-bills for the next purchase/customization than it does unlock the skill trees, but just barely. That said, I don't play tons of games per day. (Read: I'm getting much better utilization out of the 1st Victory per day bonus than people who play tons of games per day. For those people, the grind for c-bills likely takes significantly longer than the grind to unlock the skill trees.)

Then, as has already been pointed out, you actually need 3x that much time because you need 3 Mechs just to fully unlock any one of them.

If you use 400k/hour earnings it takes 25 hours to buy one Mech. Or 75 hours to fully unlock that one Mech since you need to purchase 2 others to allow access to the full skill tree. Still easier than LoL, but it's pretty brutal.

Edit:

But... if you have a Hero/Champion and Premium time, it's MUCH more reasonable. Especially now with the revised earnings. It still feels a little tedious to me, but at this point I'd have to say that it feels about right. A Freemium game should feel a little bit tedious... that's how they make their money.

Edited by Roadkill, 30 November 2015 - 09:57 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

It's not bad at all. I am constantly buying and selling mechs as new packs come in and only once did my account tell me I was out of spacebucks. ~10 matches later (matches in mechs I was gonna do anyways) my money problems were solved and haven't been back.

As for XP/GXP, etc... I have everything skilled out. All my mechs are mastered. All skills bought. I've been using GXP to level mechs because there's no other use for it. And I am still north of 100k....

[Clint Steel]

Its only a grind if you don't like playing the game.

Grinding is mining a stone for an hour, or killing mindless NPCs.

Here, you play the best part of the game to get the money and XP you want.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Black Fish, on 29 November 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

When I started playing I remember I thought the grind was pretty intense...
But after an approximate comparison with the only other game I play, League of Legends, I found MWO to be not as terrible as I thought:
MWO

• Currency earning per match: ~100,000 C-Bills
  
• Average match duration: ~10 minutes
  
• Average 'Mech costs: 10,000,000 C-Bills (this is a really rough estimation, upgrades included)
  
• Hours needed to unlock a 'Mech: 'Mech cost \ currency earning * match duration: 16:40 hours

LoL

• Currency earning per match: ~84 Influence Points
  
• avarage match duration: ~37 minutes
  
• Champion Unlock costs: 6300 IP (I took the most common Champ prices)
  
• Hours needed to unlock a 'Mech: Champ cost \ currency earning * match duration: 46:15 hours

Important things to consider:

• LoL has a +250 IP (currency) per 22 hours bonus system, per account, MWO has double XP per day bonus system per 'Mech.
  
• LoL also have unlockable Rune Pages and Runes, MWO has unlockable and purchasable Modules
  
• Investing money into LoL can be used cosmetically and to unlock Champions and rune pages. Investing money into MWO can be used cosmetically, to unlock 'Mechs and to temporarily and permanently increase currency gains, by up to 80%
  
• LoL does not offer sales with in game Currency, MWO offer, though rarely, sales with in game currency on 'Mechs and Modules.
  
• MWO host events that can net C-Bills and other perks, LoL offer weekly sales for real money currency and occasionally other sales an challenges.
  
• Important to not MWO has a limited 'Mech Labs that can only be unlocked with money, but can be earned, to some degree. LoL has no restriction to number of champions owned.

With these in mind, what are your thoughts on the grind in MWO and if you can add some other games to compare to it would help to shed some light on how grindy this game really is.



Any thoughts on this?

Disagree


LOL has RP bonus right now
They also have champion sales

MWO average match is more like 12 minutes
and Your average cost of mech is bogus. Average cost of a competitive mech is 10M X 3 to elite so 30 Mil and more like 50 hours

Then weapons add a few mil more

Lol has Champions that cost 450 IP..which is 2 games played with bonus.
There are many for 1350

MWO is far far far more of a grind due to the XP elite system.

Edited by shad0w4life, 30 November 2015 - 10:12 AM.

[Bobzilla]

It's only a grind when you realize every game is the same over and over, and the only thing you can change is your mech, so you decide to change things up, but you have to continue the same thing over and over to save up for, then master that new mech.

Then by the time it's geared and mastered, your already tired of it so you decide to change things up....

So if you actually like this game, just playing is fun, so no need to buy PT/heros/packs. This is the flaw in PGI's sales plan. If you like the game you don't need to spend.

[Clint Steel]

Bobzilla, on 30 November 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

It's only a grind when you realize every game is the same over and over, and the only thing you can change is your mech, so you decide to change things up, but you have to continue the same thing over and over to save up for, then master that new mech.

Then by the time it's geared and mastered, your already tired of it so you decide to change things up....

So if you actually like this game, just playing is fun, so no need to buy PT/heros/packs. This is the flaw in PGI's sales plan. If you like the game you don't need to spend.

I love the game. Its not perfect but I've had plenty of fun in it. Part of the fun for me is getting new Mechs and working through them. I like to earn the ability to have a fully functional Mech personally.

As for their plan being flawed, I've spent lots of money, partly to support them and partly for the goodies.

I would say that if someone really wants to get into this game they should buy the $60 MC package. This is the cost of a regular game and I feel it takes away the any negative feel that their FTP model has, if you spend most of it on Mechbays when you start.

[Madcap72]

It's neat how if you just play for fun, you end up with a ton of mechs, ton of bays from challenges and grab bags, free mechs from yearly customer appreciation days, free stuff here, free stuff there, you keep playing get good, c-bill earnings go up, the game changes, things get better... next thing you know you sink some real money in, get some champion or hero mechs and next thing you know you're making 240K c-bills a game no premium time, up to 300K with, having a blast, dropping with buddies you've made either through in game, people you talked into playing, or FB groups.

Oh, sorry, was there supposed to be a grind? if so guess I missed the memo that I was supposed to have a certain attitude LOL.


Seriously, if people think this game is a grund, they should relax and play for fun instead of treating it like a job or whatever.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Madcap72, on 30 November 2015 - 10:45 AM, said:

It's neat how if you just play for fun, you end up with a ton of mechs, ton of bays from challenges and grab bags, free mechs from yearly customer appreciation days, free stuff here, free stuff there, you keep playing get good, c-bill earnings go up, the game changes, things get better... next thing you know you sink some real money in, get some champion or hero mechs and next thing you know you're making 240K c-bills a game no premium time, up to 300K with, having a blast, dropping with buddies you've made either through in game, people you talked into playing, or FB groups.

Oh, sorry, was there supposed to be a grind? if so guess I missed the memo that I was supposed to have a certain attitude LOL.


Seriously, if people think this game is a grund, they should relax and play for fun instead of treating it like a job or whatever.

I ran premium time forever, it is a grind, a very very big one.

Challenges are absolutely horrible, play 30 hours over the weekend to get free stuff, no thanks.

The only time it didn't feel like a grind was when CW was actually played. But solo Q is boring game modes and no fun. Trying to grind out 3 Thunderbolts for my son to play was going to take around 50 hours in F2P mode, then even premium time added would still take around 30 hours. Buy a Hero mech that would be competitive would cost upwards of $25. Then you have mechbays added in.

So that right there, If I pay $40-$50 for a game, I would expect a lot more than 1 mech and then 400 hours of game time to get a few other mechs.

[Tyler Valentine]

It's easy to earn C-Bills now with the new rewards system. Grind is on par or less than other FTP games.

[Sandpit]

The "grind" in MWO has never been bad in my opinion. It's always been fairly easy to earn enough free currency to fill out your starter hangar with just about anything you want and customized within a week or two of playing pretty casually. That's completely customized mechs and a full free hangar. The trial mechs have been hit or miss at times, but that's a different topic entirely.

[Ghogiel]

shad0w4life, on 30 November 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

MWO average match is more like 12 minutes

I screenshot nearly all my solo matches to collect data..
Quickly scanning back over the screenshots from last however matches I played, battle times are looking way less than 12min for me>
5:07
6:31
5:43
4:49
5:31
9:35
3:34
4:04
6:09
4:51
4:27
7:55
3:59
5:28
etc

It really does go back all the way in a similar trend.

[Madcap72]

shad0w4life, on 30 November 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

I ran premium time forever, it is a grind, a very very big one.

Challenges are absolutely horrible, play 30 hours over the weekend to get free stuff, no thanks.

The only time it didn't feel like a grind was when CW was actually played. But solo Q is boring game modes and no fun. Trying to grind out 3 Thunderbolts for my son to play was going to take around 50 hours in F2P mode, then even premium time added would still take around 30 hours. Buy a Hero mech that would be competitive would cost upwards of $25. Then you have mechbays added in.

So that right there, If I pay $40-$50 for a game, I would expect a lot more than 1 mech and then 400 hours of game time to get a few other mechs.

I play for fun, so I have no ability to sympathize with you, because i fulfill my goal of entertainment.


Sucks you treat it like work.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

So far based off the few friends I've introduced to the game who play regularly its not too bad.

Neither use premium time or had any previous BT experience. Both started before the Cbill increase, and currently both buy mechs as they go, play CW from time to time and play events to get more mech bays, and both bought a hero mech during the black Friday sale as their first purchase.

Both purchase mechs with cbills every week or two and seem to have a good flow of cbills coming in, one even bought a Dire Wolf while the other buys more light mechs.

As a side note, these players were two friends I met on steam and introduced to the game. Seems PGI's business model is doing just fine and that the steam release definitely won't be a bad thing.

[Ghogiel]

Dakota1000, on 30 November 2015 - 04:22 PM, said:

Seems PGI's business model is doing just fine and that the steam release definitely won't be a bad thing.

But what about all the pro CSGO players that are going to flood the game!?

#scary

[Kuritaclan]

Black Fish, on 29 November 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

With these in mind, what are your thoughts on the grind in MWO and if you can add some other games to compare to it would help to shed some light on how grindy this game really is.
Any thoughts on this?

I don't complain. Its fair. And after some major tweaks in events it got even better. Btw with F2P you won't get a million C-Bill per hour. I checked after the Stats reset my numbers and it is like ~750000 C-Bill per hour on solo Queue as a Pug only player with decent skill (as i would consider myself). Also the Mechs don't average @ 10M C-Bill - XL Engines, Modules Weapons and so on will eat some holes in small budgets. Not counting for Clan-Mechs and Omnipod purchases for lets say a dire which costs alone 17 Million. Also eben it is not that much of a neg income but consumables like UAVs and Artys are still a thing. So yeah there is still a good portion of grind in this game, but you have many way for Pay 2 Progress.