400 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

Kay Wolf, on 30 November 2015 - 11:47 PM, said:

As for Flamers and Machine Guns, if they are made any deadlier than they are, now, without adding heat and higher weight requirements to them, this time I will be done with the game. I will not have the return of Light driving butt-holes who want to sit on someone's back armor and make holes the entire game. Frackin' cowards. Light 'Mechs are NOT MAIN-LINE 'Mechs, they never have been, they never should be, and that crap needs to be straightened out in Role Warfare, post-frackin'-haste. Light 'Mechs are for indirect fire spotting, for SCOUTING where the enemy is, without getting into the fray, for artillery and air strikes, for helping commander's figure out how to move their own forces, and for chasing other Light's, PERIOD. This ******** where a Light can get on my 6, where I can't shake it off, I can't turn fast enough to meet it, and it has NO PHYSICS for forcing it to slow down when it's at speed and tries to make a huge turn, when two-thirds of it's body mass is more than halfway up the height of the 'Mech, is not right, it's not fair.

So basically, you hate lights and want to get rid of them. Okay, that's an opinion - it's stupid, short-sighted, pig-headed, and did I mention stupid, but you have a right to your opinion.

Just remember that any 'mech you choose, whatever weight class it may be, should be able to contribute on the battlefield, or there is no point having them at all. And as you may or may not be aware, the main way to contribute in MWO is to deal damage to other 'mechs. Not scouting, not spotting, not being a target for heavier 'mechs, but to deal damage.

Kay Wolf, on 30 November 2015 - 11:47 PM, said:

Right now, Light's are the kings of the battlefield

This, on the other hand, is a completely false statement of fact.

The "kings of the battlefield" in MWO is, have always been, and looks forever to be, the heavy 'mechs. Lights have never, ever been even near that title; even in the heyday of the ECM RVN-3L, the unkillable Spider, or the introduction of the Arctic Cheetah the light queue was always fighting with the medium queue about the other 25% that the heavies and assaults leave.

To put it in words I think even a light-hater as yourself can agree with: There has to be a reason to play all weight classes. If you make lights inherently worse than all other classes - be it due to sub-par weaponry, too mobile heavies, or just never getting the hang of having the first ten heat sinks be of the same cap and dissipation, you just won't have any lights around.

There's no role warfare in MWO, and I sometimes despair of there ever being any. There's no need for spotting, scouting, or anything other than dealing damage and getting kills. Lights are supposed to fight because there's literally nothing else to do in the game, and they do so by being fast, agile, and trying to get to your backside.

Now I know it's rough having something that's designed to prey on the weakness of your assault 'mech, but you just can't have all the advantages without any disadvantages or weaknesses; that's just not balanced.

Sorry that you feel that strong lights are too much for you to handle; I hope you understand that for us light pilots it has been that way since closed beta; we've always had the cards stacked against us. If viable, strong lights make you want to quit the game, there's only one thing I can say, and that's "good riddance". One less voice crying out for the weight-class imbalance to continue unabated.

Edited by stjobe, 01 December 2015 - 09:51 AM.

[AllOuttaBubbleGum]

As an assault pilot I look forward to the challeng of dealing with lights. There are ways you can deal with them. The most important way is team work, which is the number 1 fail in most PU Games. If you got jacked by a bunch of lights because you were alone, oh well..team work. If your lights ran off after one rabbit and left you alone...team work! In terms of what you can do....shoot at legs, back pedal, counter rotate if you can't keep up. I guess since I've been driving mostly assaults since I've started these things are my MO without even thinking.

[Mystere]

Arkhangel, on 30 November 2015 - 03:14 PM, said:

Afraid you might have to learn to dodge rather than just outrun?

I do kinda wish they'd changed ECM so it no longer blocks locks, though... still... 90m is a lot smaller of a distance than a lot of people realize, and they're going to find that out to their cost reallly fast.

You do realize that's actually a buff to the ECM carrier, right?

[Michal R]

• All IS/Clan SRMs have had their base speed increased from 300 to 400m/s.
• All IS Streak SRMs have had their base speed increased from 200 to 250m/s.
• All Clan Streak SRMs have had their base speed increased from 180 to 230m/s.
• IS SRM/2 spread reduced from 4.8 to 2.5m.
• IS SRM/2 heat scale maxfiring threshold increased from 4 to 6. *Note: Maxfiring is the number of launchers you can fire simultaneously free of heat scale.
• IS SRM/4 spread reduced from 5.2 to 3.5m.
• IS SRM/4 heat scale maxfiring threshold increased from 3 to 4.
• IS SRM/6 spread reduced from 5.7 to 4.5m.
• IS SRM/6 heat scale maxfiring threshold increased from 3 to 4.
• Clan SRM/2 spread reduced from 5.0 to 3.0m.
• Clan SRM/2 heat scale maxfiring threshold increased from 4 to 6.
• Clan SRM/4 spread reduced from 5.4 to 4.0m.
• Clan SRM/4 heat scale maxfiring threshold increased from 3 to 4.
• Clan SRM/6 spread reduced from 5.9 to 5.0m.
• Clan SRM/6 heat scale maxfiring threshold increased from 3 to 4.

No one use SRM, they sucks because bad hit detection. Great change for non use weapon


Lasers
• Clan ER Small Laser Max Range reduced to 360 (400).
• Clan ER Medium Laser Max Range reduced to 688 (810).
• Clan Small Pulse Laser Max Range reduced to 297.
• Clan Medium Pulse Laser Max Range reduced to 561.
• Heat Scale has been properly added to the Inner Sphere Medium Pulse Lasers. The values have been set to the same as a normal IS Medium Laser. You can fire 6 at once with no heat penalty. Multiplier is set to 1.0.
Equipment

Nerf clan weapons... great more players will abandon game, good move.
And another ghost heat, oww great....

Revised Skill Tree values

Kinetic Burst
7.5%
Twist X
2.5%
Hard Brake
7.5%
Twist Speed
2.5%
Arm Reflex
2.5%
Anchor Turn
2.5%
Speed Tweak
7.5%


It's better to throw it to the trash. who need that great buff of values...

[Nephologist]

Michal R, on 01 December 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

• All IS/Clan SRMs have had their base speed increased from 300 to 400m/s.
• All IS Streak SRMs have had their base speed increased from 200 to 250m/s.
• All Clan Streak SRMs have had their base speed increased from 180 to 230m/s.
• IS SRM/2 spread reduced from 4.8 to 2.5m.
• IS SRM/2 heat scale maxfiring threshold increased from 4 to 6. *Note: Maxfiring is the number of launchers you can fire simultaneously free of heat scale.
• IS SRM/4 spread reduced from 5.2 to 3.5m.
• IS SRM/4 heat scale maxfiring threshold increased from 3 to 4.
• IS SRM/6 spread reduced from 5.7 to 4.5m.
• IS SRM/6 heat scale maxfiring threshold increased from 3 to 4.
• Clan SRM/2 spread reduced from 5.0 to 3.0m.
• Clan SRM/2 heat scale maxfiring threshold increased from 4 to 6.
• Clan SRM/4 spread reduced from 5.4 to 4.0m.
• Clan SRM/4 heat scale maxfiring threshold increased from 3 to 4.
• Clan SRM/6 spread reduced from 5.9 to 5.0m.
• Clan SRM/6 heat scale maxfiring threshold increased from 3 to 4.

No one use SRM, they sucks because bad hit detection. Great change for non use weapon


Lasers
• Clan ER Small Laser Max Range reduced to 360 (400).
• Clan ER Medium Laser Max Range reduced to 688 (810).
• Clan Small Pulse Laser Max Range reduced to 297.
• Clan Medium Pulse Laser Max Range reduced to 561.
• Heat Scale has been properly added to the Inner Sphere Medium Pulse Lasers. The values have been set to the same as a normal IS Medium Laser. You can fire 6 at once with no heat penalty. Multiplier is set to 1.0.
Equipment

Nerf clan weapons... great more players will abandon game, good move.
And another ghost heat, oww great....

Revised Skill Tree values

Kinetic Burst
7.5%
Twist X
2.5%
Hard Brake
7.5%
Twist Speed
2.5%
Arm Reflex
2.5%
Anchor Turn
2.5%
Speed Tweak
7.5%


It's better to throw it to the trash. who need that great buff of values...

[SaltBeef]

PGI not done shooting themselves in the foot again.

[Cataclysm315]

Pretty happy with this patch overall, especially the cockpit monitors! Looking forward to seeing what you guys do with these

My only concern is that the IS double heat sinks now seem less feasible as they are only marginally better than the single sinks....will have to see how that works out in practice when the game is ready to play again.

Liking the engine loss that clans now suffer on the loss of a torso, this makes sense as part of the engine has been blown away. Also liking the nerf to the clan double heat sinks. As a clan player myself, I found it a little too easy to brawl sometimes. Hopefully this will make my madcat build a much more effective build at range.

Keep it up!

[Ninjah]

The good:

1. Newbies start in T5, won't get into T3 so easy now and face T1.
2. Animated cockpit screens
3. ECM nerf

The bad:

1. Re-balance brought another weak system which will be easy to exploit with meta/overquirked builds. Some of us are already considering 4 BJ-1X CW drop decks lol. 1/10 of the mechs will still be OP and the others will collect dust.
2. You nerfed clans too hard.

[Pz_DC]

Quirks are strage for some mechs, mean some mechs was already arent too good but after re-quirking they became even more good.... WTF?...

P.S. Stop nerfing clans! All those f_tards who play only "best awailable" mechs now coming to IS! STOP IT! Let em play ther "imba" clantech, do not make that game too easy for IS! I has no problems with unnerfed clans but now .. its just too easy! Btter re-balance CW, becouse there are most problems, unlike "random" matches where i has no feeling of clan unbalance at all. IMHO.

[Wartang]

Here is a proper balance
On the clan Side ten mechs max 2 Stars of five
Heat sinks -1 heat 1 critical slot
Double heat sinks -2 heat 2 critical slot
Bring all the weapons stats back to the Battletech Clan stats

Inner Sphere 12 mechs 3 lances
Heat sinks -1 heat 1 critical slots
Double Heat sinks -2 heat 3 critical slots
Bring the weapons back the Battletech Inner sphere stats

Scrap the hard point system.

The Clans are supposed to be better they had QUALITY OVER QUANTITY their main problem was supply they couldn't get the mechs out and they also had the Zelbriggen rules to deal with, which meant they had to bid for the honor to fight, the one who bid the fewest resources got to fight,(and they were not allowed to gang up on a target) that why I say bring the clans down to 2 stars which is 10 mechs a wave, and 40 mechs to use in CW
it would mean that the IS has 8 mechs less to destroy ins a CW mission.


I think MechWarrior 3 (Microprose) got it right, it just needed an update in graphics and more mechs. PGI could you please stop with the nerfs and bring me and the other Battletech players who do and did play the table top the game, the game we know and love back.

[Raubwurst]

Am I missing something? (Or are you missing something?)

Edited by Raubwurst, 01 December 2015 - 11:17 AM.

[Threat Doc]

stjobe, on 01 December 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

So basically, you hate lights and want to get rid of them. Okay, that's an opinion - it's stupid, short-sighted, pig-headed, and did I mention stupid, but you have a right to your opinion.

Okay, sparky, if you insist. I don't hate Lights, but they have a role to play, which I've already outlined, here, and that's not the role they're playing. Machine Guns and Flamers are far more powerful than they should be, in this game, and if anything they need to have the HELL nerf'd out of them.

Quote

Just remember that any 'mech you choose, whatever weight class it may be, should be able to contribute on the battlefield, or there is no point having them at all. And as you may or may not be aware, the main way to contribute in MWO is to deal damage to other 'mechs. Not scouting, not spotting, not being a target for heavier 'mechs, but to deal damage.

You're absolutely right, and that's PGIs ****-up, because they've not made the game friendly to LRM boats or Light 'Mechs in the gaining points venue, even if I might get "Kill - Most Damage Dealt" on over half the enemy team, in a really good game mind you, or in a bad game at least one 'Mech. But, despite all of the adjustments to the contrary, PGI doesn't understand that it's still the kill that makes the most effect in the game.

Quote

This, on the other hand, is a completely false statement of fact.

No, actually, it's not. When a Light 'Mech can latch onto the six of an assault or heavy 'Mech and take it out in less than a full minute of real time -whether that's the result of idiots who don't know how to design 'Mechs and leave nearly all of their back armor off, or because the Light pilot is just really that good-, there's something very wrong. Light 'Mechs are for recon and support, for scouting, finding the enemy, and reporting back, and for dog fights with other Lights, they are NOT, and NEVER HAVE BEEN, front line BattleMechs.

Quote

The "kings of the battlefield" in MWO is, have always been, and looks forever to be, the heavy 'mechs. Lights have never, ever been even near that title; even in the heyday of the ECM RVN-3L, the unkillable Spider, or the introduction of the Arctic Cheetah the light queue was always fighting with the medium queue about the other 25% that the heavies and assaults leave.

Yeah, tell that to hit registration. When I can stand BEHIND a shut down Light and hit it THREE FRACKIN' TIMES with Alpha's, square in the back armor, and when it powers up it runs after with barely a scratch to it, or when I can launch 400 missiles at it and it only takes, again, a scratch to the paint, you tell me that's not wrong. Even in THIS game, I should be able to hit ANY Light 'Mech dead on with an AC/20 and kill that *****, but never have I seen a Light 'Mech go down from any but the most concentrated effort from two or three 'Mechs, including Lights, whereas just the other day, I did have a Light pop up in front of me and head-shotted me without breaking stride.

When two-thirds of a 'Mech's weight is above the halfway point of its overall height, and it's not required to slow down to make a turn, there's something wrong with the physics. For a Raven, traveling 110kph, that bird should topple straight over when it goes to make a turn, but I never seen them slow down for those turns, and that is WRONG.

Quote

To put it in words I think even a light-hater as yourself can agree with: There has to be a reason to play all weight classes. If you make lights inherently worse than all other classes - be it due to sub-par weaponry, too mobile heavies, or just never getting the hang of having the first ten heat sinks be of the same cap and dissipation, you just won't have any lights around.

Yes, I agree, all chassis' should be playable, but all chassis' should also fit into their role, and be played as such. No 'Mech should be able to get behind another 'Mech and be unshakeable, and then the 'Mech in front just dies. I keep a more significant back armor total than most of the other players in this game reportedly do, so it takes a bit longer, but every time I get a Light near me, I know I am doomed, period. I could back up against a rock or a building, but them I'm immobile, I can try running to my Lancemates, but I always die before I get there, and I'm talking about being within a couple of hundred meters of them, no further, and I always die whenever a Light 'Mech gets in range. This is why I make killing stupid Lights my priority whenever I'm in-game; if I can lock one up, that mahucka's dead as soon as I can kill it. I take grand JOY in being able to SHATTER Light 'Mechs because they are such an amazing nuisance.

Light 'Mechs DO NOT FUNCTION in this game the way they should, or else I would not hate them. They are OP to the max, they are the worst implementation of Light 'Mechs in any game we've had so far, and they are the king of the battlefield for anyone not driving another Light 'Mech.

Quote

There's no role warfare in MWO, and I sometimes despair of there ever being any. There's no need for spotting, scouting, or anything other than dealing damage and getting kills. Lights are supposed to fight because there's literally nothing else to do in the game, and they do so by being fast, agile, and trying to get to your backside.

Well, that's YOUR ******* opinion, and I do mean it is *******. You're not a BattleTech guy, are you? You're just a back-stabber who plays big 'Mech games for the sake of killing pixels as fast as possible, aren't you?

Quote

Sorry that you feel that strong lights are too much for you to handle; I hope you understand that for us light pilots it has been that way since closed beta; we've always had the cards stacked against us. If viable, strong lights make you want to quit the game, there's only one thing I can say, and that's "good riddance". One less voice crying out for the weight-class imbalance to continue unabated.

Are you crying to me about having the cards stacked against you? Dry your tears, little one, and keep playing with the "cards stacked against" you, because I have the world's tiniest fiddle, and it's playing just for you. You have some nerve, I'm tellin' ya.

I wonder when we're actually going to get a game of BattleTech, and not Heavy Gear with BattleTech names?

I don't have time for this, I have to go to work.

Edited by Kay Wolf, 01 December 2015 - 11:23 AM.

[Threat Doc]

Raubwurst, on 01 December 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

Am I missing something? (Or are you missing something?)

They still have almost two hours of updating to do Raubwurst. Hold your horses, buddy.

[KursedVixen]

Wartang, on 01 December 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

Here is a proper balance
On the clan Side ten mechs max 2 Stars of five
Heat sinks -1 heat 1 critical slot
Double heat sinks -2 heat 2 critical slot
Bring all the weapons stats back to the Battletech Clan stats

Inner Sphere 12 mechs 3 lances
Heat sinks -1 heat 1 critical slots
Double Heat sinks -2 heat 3 critical slots
Bring the weapons back the Battletech Inner sphere stats

Scrap the hard point system.

The Clans are supposed to be better they had QUALITY OVER QUANTITY their main problem was supply they couldn't get the mechs out and they also had the Zelbriggen rules to deal with, which meant they had to bid for the honor to fight, the one who bid the fewest resources got to fight,(and they were not allowed to gang up on a target) that why I say bring the clans down to 2 stars which is 10 mechs a wave, and 40 mechs to use in CW
it would mean that the IS has 8 mechs less to destroy ins a CW mission.


I think MechWarrior 3 (Microprose) got it right, it just needed an update in graphics and more mechs. PGI could you please stop with the nerfs and bring me and the other Battletech players who do and did play the table top the game, the game we know and love back.

I fully agree with that idea of 2 stars vs 3 lances in CW it would work. But then what happens in the quick matches with mixed tech? Why were there no complaints about clanners back in Mechwarrior Living Legends? Why did Living legends have Clan mechs at all? Overall I like your idea, and as i've said before why don't we go back to TT rules?

And I will also post this AGAIN
Heat and damage values thanks to Sarna.net and smurfy.net


https://docs.google....t#gid=0&vpid=A1


Also it's not that they didn't get the mechs out it's that they wanted to preserve what they had the clans are a very 'green' society if you'd call them that.

On another note Entirely......

I think quirks should be removed entirly they have made this game what it is, Trash.

do you know how much range i can get out of a ER large laser on spider now? 20% 10%(quirk)+10%more(module) 810Meters optimium range THAT"S A ERPPC! The spider makes the ERPPC worthless if you have an ER laser range module

But Kursed, it's IS tech we should have the advantage over clans.

Nope. This is what happens when you blow your selfs almost back to the medieval age by destroying everything in site weapon depos mech production, ANYTHING. If you want better IS tech well look for a another game because the IS blew their good tech to pieces, while the clans formerly the star league left and never destroyed their advanced tech now known as losttech. That is how it goes, don't like it tough deal with the creators of Battletech

Edited by KursedVixen, 01 December 2015 - 11:41 AM.

[Jabilo]

While you still have the travesty of game mode voting I find it hard to summon any enthusiasm or support for the game.

Let us play the modes we enjoy.

[Big Tin Man]

Raubwurst, on 01 December 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

Am I missing something? (Or are you missing something?)

Odds are some CW phase 3 background stuff or clan origins coding didn't make it into the build for this patch. It is somewhat common to sneak game mechanics into the patches prior to those features going live. Reference when the 360* torso twist code for the urbies broke Ice Ferrets, before urbies were live in game.

Edited by Big Tin Man, 01 December 2015 - 11:32 AM.

[Lunatic_Asylum]

Here are the most outrageous things in the patch:


1. Increased Cadet Bonus.

This feature, when released, was a big turn off to me as a new player. I wanted to earn my money gradually and start buying light 'Mechs first. I got an insane amount of money for no effort, and it made me almost quit.

Solution: reduce or remove it; cut the tutorial income tenfold. Put a big discount in the store for the money pack for first-time buyers. 7,983,000 was preposterous. 12,500,000+2,000,000 for the tutorial is really overly rewarding. Get it down to 3,000,000 or 0 maybe.

2. Lowered 'Mech Skills.

Do not treat Steam or New players as some sort of "lowbies who do not know how to play". We are here to progress. Buying three 'Mechs is insanely fast with the new system, and progression is something we favor a lot.

Solution: adjust the values a bit.

3. The All-hated Voting System.

Why is it still in? People leave the game over it in packs. Some do not want to be forced to play some game modes. I do not want to be forced to play a chosen game map.
We would prefer to have more waiting time over this system that caters to the 20% of playerbase.

Solution: remove this bug.

4. Gauss Rifles and ECM change.

It gives more challenge to use those, so I am OK with those (I love Gauss!)

Solution: Gauss Rifles are bugged at the moment (well, have been for a year: if you have 4 Gauss cannons, 2 in each hand, then if one in each hand get destroyed (i.e. you have 1 Gauss left in each arm), you cannot group-fire them anymore.
Fix that bug before adjusting the Gauss weapon.

Edited by Lunatic_Asylum, 01 December 2015 - 11:40 AM.

[Phashe]

Thank god they nerfed Pretty Baby! That thing was soooo OP! :-P

[ObnoxiousGamer]

As someone who pilots KGCs and, soon, Marauders, I can say that light 'mechs are annoying. They are, however, far from OP. If a light 'mech screws up in front of two AC-20s, it gets obliterated. Even more so if I decide to chop it into tiny pieces with three ERL Lasers. If they can get behind me, fair enough. To people who complain that "LITE MEKS AR OP PLSS NURF PGI," there's a good chance you just don't know how to deal with them. A little bit of knowledge from World of Tanks, as taboo as that may be, is; Look at your minimap. It's there for a reason. Always check behind you. Check your flanks to see if there's a teammate between you and possible routes of attack. Situational awareness is key in this game, and people who don't understand that are going to be killed very quickly in a match. Then, there's the people who think this should be a true Battletech game: surprise, it's not. 'Mech classes are not going to be used in the same ways as they are in the board and RTS games. If you want true Battletech, go and play true Battletech. This game is about fighting 'mechs with other 'mechs, head-on. That's what I came for, and that's what I got.

[KursedVixen]

ObnoxiousGamer, on 01 December 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

As someone who pilots KGCs and, soon, Marauders, I can say that light 'mechs are annoying. They are, however, far from OP. If a light 'mech screws up in front of two AC-20s, it gets obliterated. Even more so if I decide to chop it into tiny pieces with three ERL Lasers. If they can get behind me, fair enough. To people who complain that "LITE MEKS AR OP PLSS NURF PGI," there's a good chance you just don't know how to deal with them. A little bit of knowledge from World of Tanks, as taboo as that may be, is; Look at your minimap. It's there for a reason. Always check behind you. Check your flanks to see if there's a teammate between you and possible routes of attack. Situational awareness is key in this game, and people who don't understand that are going to be killed very quickly in a match. Then, there's the people who think this should be a true Battletech game: surprise, it's not. 'Mech classes are not going to be used in the same ways as they are in the board and RTS games. If you want true Battletech, go and play true Battletech. This game is about fighting 'mechs with other 'mechs, head-on. That's what I came for, and that's what I got.

Then do not put the name Mechwarrior on the game either.

Lunatic_Asylum, on 01 December 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

Here are the most outrageous things in the patch:


1. Increased Cadet Bonus.

This feature, when released, was a big turn off to me as a new player. I wanted to earn my money gradually and start buying light 'Mechs first. I got an insane amount of money for no effort, and it made me almost quit.

Solution: reduce or remove it; cut the tutorial income tenfold. Put a big discount in the store for the money pack for first-time buyers. 7,983,000 was preposterous. 12,500,000+2,000,000 for the tutorial is really overly rewarding. Get it down to 3,000,000 or 0 maybe.

2. Lowered 'Mech Skills.

Do not treat Steam or New players as some sort of "lowbies who do not know how to play". We are here to progress. Buying three 'Mechs is insanely fast with the new system, and progression is something we favor a lot.

Solution: adjust the values a bit.

3. The All-hated Voting System.

Why is it still in? People leave the game over it in packs. Some do not want to be forced to play some game modes. I do not want to be forced to play a chosen game map.
We would prefer to have more waiting time over this system that caters to the 20% of playerbase.

Solution: remove this bug.

4. Gauss Rifles and ECM change.

It gives more challenge to use those, so I am OK with those (I love Gauss!)

Solution: Gauss Rifles are bugged at the moment (well, have been for a year: if you have 4 Gauss cannons, 2 in each hand, then if one in each hand get destroyed (i.e. you have 1 Gauss left in each arm), you cannot group-fire them anymore.
Fix that bug before adjusting the Gauss weapon.

agreed over all 3 Ecm kinda needed it Guass eh so what.

Edited by KursedVixen, 01 December 2015 - 12:06 PM.