24 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

Greetings Mechwarriors. Today I've a simple question. Why do Clan Pulse Lasers have a significantly longer burn duration? I know that they have greater range but shouldn't the CSPL have a similar burn duration as a IS MPL, both of which deal the same amount of damage.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I think most people would disagree with you about Clan pulse..

LPL is the only one that seems a little off.

its more of a sniper weapon than it is a brawl tool, which IMO is the only one out of place.

[cazidin]

Yeah, that's actually the one that got me thinking that their beam duration may be a bit too long. Keep in mind that many clan mechs also get a negative laser duration quirk, so .75 seconds becomes .83 or so. That might seem like a small difference but everything should be considered for balance

[Monkey Lover]

Clan small pulse lasers are evilevil when you boat them. LPL are great for range fighting. Medium pulse I don't care much for.

Don't forget they all so do more damage than the IS wubwub.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 20 December 2015 - 04:42 PM.

[Jun Watarase]

Clan lasers are so OP that med lasers on a certain battlemaster variant have nearly the same range and much better heat efficiency compared to the c-med pulse despite being half the weight.

[Pariah Devalis]

Should note that the intended role for Clan LPlas is not the same as the IS variation of the same. For the Clans, it is not actually meant for brawling, but for long range work.

That said, the burn duration on the C-LPLas and the C-ERLLas is a bit much - especially for the C-ERLLas which I'm pretty sure I could read War and Peace between starting the shot and it ending, but good lord can you imagine what the tidal wave of salt from the "Clans OP" crowd would be like if it was reduced by all of 0.1 duration? I am practically getting boils at the thought of it!

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 20 December 2015 - 04:44 PM.

[process]

The burn time helps balance the high damage. It tough, because 0.6 seconds or less is basically instantaneous, and 1 second or more starts to feel like forever.

Edited by process, 20 December 2015 - 04:44 PM.

[Jun Watarase]

Quote

Should note that the intended role for Clan LPlas is not the same as the IS variation of the same. For the Clans, it is not actually meant for brawling, but for long range work.

Not true, as any player of the tabletop can tell you. Their long range is because fasa was bad at balancing. Pulse lasers were always intended to be short ranged to deal with super fast mechs that could jump 10 hexes into heavy forest, and clan pulse needed to be better somehow, but FASA thought it would be a great idea to make them have nearly the same range as ER lasers...

[Pariah Devalis]

Jun Watarase, on 20 December 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

Not true, as any player of the tabletop can tell you. Their long range is because fasa was bad at balancing. Pulse lasers were always intended to be short ranged to deal with super fast mechs that could jump 10 hexes into heavy forest, and clan pulse needed to be better somehow, but FASA thought it would be a great idea to make them have nearly the same range as ER lasers...

...which indicates its purpose was for long range affairs, not close. Specifically they were used for AA work, where the pulse accuracy helped to track the aircraft and the range let them pick them off early.

[Ultimax]

Don't think of Clan Large Pulse as the same weapon as IS Large Pulse - they aren't the same other than the name.

Clan Large Pulse are effectively a halfway point between an IS LLAS and IS ER LLAS.

Look at them that way and you'll see they are very good weapons.



Clan Medium Pulse are a halfway point between IS Medium Pulse and IS Large Pulse.

6 of them will let you deal more damage than 4x IS LPLs and with no Ghost Heat - albeit at a slightly shorter base range or more damage than 7 IS Medium Pulse Lasers but with even more range (and for higher heat cost).

[WrathOfDeadguy]

CSPL deals the same damage as ISMPL for half the tonnage. CMPL deals almost as much damage as ISLL for less than half the tonnage. CLPL deals more damage than any other laser weapon in the game, at damn near ERLL ranges, for one ton less than ISLPL.

That's why they have longer burn times. Give them the same burn times, and you get Clan 'Mechs steamrolling everything... which is exactly what happened when the burn durations were shorter, just after the first Invasion wave released. They're far from terrible even as they are right now. Since PGI doesn't want to do 10v12 game modes, a higher skill gate for holding your beam on target is the price you have to pay for dealing more damage per shot for the same tonnage in weaponry.

[Jun Watarase]

Pariah Devalis, on 20 December 2015 - 04:47 PM, said:

...which indicates its purpose was for long range affairs, not close. Specifically they were used for AA work, where the pulse accuracy helped to track the aircraft and the range let them pick them off early.

Uh, actually, because they were so OP, they became the de-facto to win button for every situation. Which is why when you see someone bring a huge horde of clan pulses to the table, you just get up and leave.

[Pariah Devalis]

Jun Watarase, on 20 December 2015 - 04:55 PM, said:

Uh, actually, because they were so OP, they became the de-facto to win button for every situation. Which is why when you see someone bring a huge horde of clan pulses to the table, you just get up and leave.

That still doesn't make it anything less than what it is: a sniping weapon. It just also happened to be broken as hell up close, too.

[Jun Watarase]

Pariah Devalis, on 20 December 2015 - 05:07 PM, said:

That still doesn't make it anything less than what it is: a sniping weapon. It just also happened to be broken as hell up close, too.

Weapons like that are not "Sniping" weapons. Sniping implies they are specialized at long range and bad at short range (which is what PGI has been trying to achieve with the gauss). A weapon good at all ranges is an all arounder weapon.

[jaxjace]

If by terrible you mean terribly broken

the clan small pulse and large pulse are two of the best weapons in the game.

[El Bandito]

cazidin, on 20 December 2015 - 04:31 PM, said:

Yeah, that's actually the one that got me thinking that their beam duration may be a bit too long. Keep in mind that many clan mechs also get a negative laser duration quirk, so .75 seconds becomes .83 or so. That might seem like a small difference but everything should be considered for balance

Negative durations only on the OP omnipods, on the OP mechs. That's balance right there.

Edited by El Bandito, 20 December 2015 - 11:05 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I wouldn't mind seeing the cLPL drop it's damage back to 10 damage and it's duration down to 0.9s

[norus]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 20 December 2015 - 11:02 PM, said:

I wouldn't mind seeing the cLPL drop it's damage back to 10 damage and it's duration down to 0.9s

I don't know, that'd probably kill it. It'd become the most heat inefficient laser in the entire game, even more inefficient than ER lasers.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

norus, on 20 December 2015 - 11:05 PM, said:

I don't know, that'd probably kill it. It'd become the most heat inefficient laser in the entire game, even more inefficient than ER lasers.

Could also drop it's heat as well if that proved the case.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Mister D, on 20 December 2015 - 04:26 PM, said:

I think most people would disagree with you about Clan pulse..

LPL is the only one that seems a little off.

its more of a sniper weapon than it is a brawl tool, which IMO is the only one out of place.

It's more like a slightly heavier harder hitting IS LL in terms of duration, but with better DPS, DPH, and DPT.