157 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Jun Watarase, on 02 December 2015 - 10:06 PM, said:

The "clan range advantage" gets negated when you take into account. I was also making the comparison pre-patch, when IS MPLs on the tbolt had the exact same range as clan ones, but people still insisted that clan lasers were "better". But they wouldnt specify how, or kept insisting on comparing the stats without any quirks (which is not a real world comparison).

so because they were quirked to match on one IS mech, that makes them the same across the board? Cherry picked logic dude?

[STEF_]

Elizander, on 02 December 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

If you mean easier by

• Instantly dying when you lose a side torso when you have an XL engine
  
• Have less weapons because standard engines weigh a lot
  
• Have less range
  
• Have heavier weapons
  
• Have bulkier double heat sinks
  
• Being covered in plaster strips just to be brought close to the level of unquirked clan mechs

Then yes :3

Pity that uberquirked mechs make irrilevant all your points.

Eating all clan mechs alive, using only IS mechs after the patch.
How's that?
The balance miracle?

[STEF_]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 December 2015 - 10:08 PM, said:

so because they were quirked to match on one IS mech, that makes them the same across the board? Cherry picked logic dude?

On one. In the past.
But now the IS mechs uberquirked are not only one

It is weird the idea to have this balance: since we had 2 years of clan mech OP, and now it is right to have a good period of IS mech uberquirked and make the clanners suffer

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 02 December 2015 - 06:01 PM, said:

I am simply chiding those butthurt Clanners who scream "IS is OP now".

and I'm not a clanner but a merc, but I still say the IS are uberquirked and OP now.
No problem for me, tho. I simply switch.

But saying there is a balance now, it is very wrong or...you really like this balance for....reasons

[Rhent]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 December 2015 - 06:35 AM, said:

Lolz. No.

Clan XL
7 crit Ferro and Endo
2 crit DHS
3 ton lighter Gauss
Er Medium Lasers with Large Laser range
Clan pulse lasers are probably the best weapon not named Gauss Rifle in the game. Longer burn than IS, but massively longer range.

Half weight LRM and SRMs.

Streak 4 and 6.

ACs not PP-FLD, but burst is short now weigh less and can lay out twice the damage.

Best mech in each class respectively?

DireWolf
Timberwolf
Stormcrow
Arctic Cheetah

And the only one it's even close is the Direwolf. Timby, Hellby and Cauldron Born all better than any IS Heavy.

Quirks keep some IS chassis from being laughed out of the building, but that's it. Most IS mechs would give up engine choices for an immortal XL.

Ebon Jaguar or Hellbring >>> Timbernerf

[Karmen Baric]

I own lots of Clan & IS mechs but I mostly use Clan mechs because they can tank damage way better than IS paper armor and isXL engines.

The Clan nerfs were very much the correct thing to do and maybe need to go a little further.

[Black Ivan]

Stefka Kerensky, on 02 December 2015 - 11:14 PM, said:

and I'm not a clanner but a merc, but I still say the IS are uberquirked and OP now.
No problem for me, tho. I simply switch.

But saying there is a balance now, it is very wrong or...you really like this balance for....reasons

Indeed, first time I have tro agree wit you . The new Quirks gives IS a definity advantage across the board. Clans are not dead, but many of their Mech now suffer.

Edited by Black Ivan, 02 December 2015 - 11:32 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

From what I've experienced personally these last two days:


Pre-patch top IS mechs in each category:

• FS9-S
  
• BJ-1X
  
• TDR-5SS
  
• BNC-3M

Post-patch top IS mechs in each category:

• JR7-O
  
• BJ-2X
  
• BLK-7-KNT-L
  
• BNC-3M

Pre-patch top IS mechs in each category:

• 6x cSPL ACH
  
• 1x cLPL, 5x cERML SCR
  
• Goose 5x cERML TBR
  
• Direwhale

Post-patch top IS mechs in each category:

• 6x cSPL ACH
  
• 1x cLPL, 5x cERML SCR
  
• 4x ASRM6 4x cERML TBR
  
• Direwhale

Overall in game in each category pre-patch:

• 6x cSPL ACH
  
• 1x cLPL, 5x cERML SCR
  
• Goose 5x cERML TBR
  
• BNC-3M

Overall in game in each category post-patch:

• 6x cSPL ACH
  
• BJ-1X
  
• BLK-7-KNT-L
  
• BNC-3M

[Mcgral18]

While the IS does have some VERY nice options now, my 8ERML NopeVa is still scoring higher on average. 1X comes close, and likely around parity, but JJs and those extra 100M optimal make a difference.

Only, now there are at least 2 GOOD BlackJack options, with most of the others being decent. Sure, the SadCat is very sad, but the DoomCrow and (even the lowly) Nova have competition.

Crow still wins, of course, but it might even be situational now.


Clams win God Tier and mid range combat. IS wins exceedingly long range, and close range can be up in the air. Brawling build of either faction beats mid range of the other, but brawlers can be torn apart with 0 damage dealt.



What it amounts to isn't faction, but is it a God Tier Omni? Or Trash Tier?
Does it have decent quirks? Or just an abandoned, obsolete robot?

SadCat VS BJ, BJ wins
DoomCrow VS Kintaro, Crow wins

Robot to Robot basis, not a blanket Faction statement.

[Kin3ticX]

I dunno about IS = easy mode but you could argue that some overquirking made it into the 12/1 patch(its happened before).

and they seem to be trying to work it out
https://twitter.com/...288991358488577

Some of the Clan-IS power gap is unquirkable(like the clan vs IS XL engine) so they try to compensate somewhere else without overquirking.

[V O L T R O N]

All my 1100 + damage games in the past 2 weeks have been from clans only. JS

[Lily from animove]

Stefka Kerensky, on 02 December 2015 - 11:04 PM, said:

Pity that uberquirked mechs make irrilevant all your points.

Eating all clan mechs alive, using only IS mechs after the patch.
How's that?
The balance miracle?

I don't think it make sense to argue with most IS players, they have their biased non objective opinion. This makes them too blind to see the strength of their mechs and fail building correctly. Which then is follwoed by bad piloting, because you can only do a smuch as your build has potential.

V O L T R O N, on 03 December 2015 - 03:48 AM, said:

All my 1100 + damage games in the past 2 weeks have been from clans only. JS

Now ask yoursefl, is this because clanmehcs are better, or is this you? because others seem not to have these toubles in IS mechs. That doesn't mean someone is a bad pilot, it often just means there is something specific on the IS side he hasn't figured out correctly.
because lets be honest, IS mechs are less idiot proof. It is way easier by the full customisation availble to build them not so good. Squeezing out the real potential of an IS mech is just a lot more try and error with min/maxing. which always drives me crazy when this means to buy a freaking new expensive engine just for testing this. Also, for a newbie optimising a IS emch is way harder, because the stock engine may be replaced up to 4x for your dropdeck mechs. which means a LOT more money has to be invested when the stockmech comes with a "dead" engine.
Is is not worse, they are different, but they are harder to master because it needs more time and testing for every mech to optimise its loadout.

[V O L T R O N]

Lily from animove, on 03 December 2015 - 04:03 AM, said:

Now ask yoursefl, is this because clanmehcs are better, or is this you? because others seem not to have these toubles in IS mechs. That doesn't mean someone is a bad pilot, it often just means there is something specific on the IS side he hasn't figured out correctly.
because lets be honest, IS mechs are less idiot proof. It is way easier by the full customisation availble to build them not so good. Squeezing out the real potential of an IS mech is just a lot more try and error with min/maxing. which always drives me crazy when this means to buy a freaking new expensive engine just for testing this. Also, for a newbie optimising a IS emch is way harder, because the stock engine may be replaced up to 4x for your dropdeck mechs. which means a LOT more money has to be invested when the stockmech comes with a "dead" engine.
Is is not worse, they are different, but they are harder to master because it needs more time and testing for every mech to optimise its loadout.

Im a competitive player with more drops and games than anyone else I have seen. I have been tier 1. I like to analyze. I dont pilot mechs without modules or the engine I want or the weapons I want. I know meta builds, I know farming builds. I have won 7 solo tourneys, 3 mrbc season/leagues, CW events and yes. I find it easier to have top games with Clans. With IFS? Only certain chassis and very few at that.

Hell. I dont even pilot mechs unless I can use gxp to master them first.

You have 8k post and I have never seen you in one drop... How ******* strange is that.... Forum warrior online.

Edited by V O L T R O N, 03 December 2015 - 06:17 AM.

[Drunk Canuck]

It isn't so much IS is easy mode, PGI just nerfed the strongest Clan weapons along with their engines and didn't give any other weapons more viability. I have been clamouring for an increase in LBX shell damage just so they can see more use, but they are even further inferior because of the IS armor/structure quirks that came with these Clan nerfs. PGI hasn't ever been capable of giving people a reason to use SRMs or LBXs in the game, it has always been pin point single shot damage.

Some of the quirks for IS are a bit over the top. Energy heat gen quirks for GHRs are crazy, I can alpha 3 LPL and 4 ML with only basic skills and not shut down from it. Do that with a Clan Mech and you probably won't live to start back up now.

Edited by Drunk Canuck, 03 December 2015 - 10:27 AM.

[YottsTwitch]

ZacharyJ, on 02 December 2015 - 03:36 AM, said:

fire in a split second, front loaded damage

They are not front loaded damage and are completely linear in DPS. Care to point me to some proof on this one? It's not the first time I've seen someone talk about FLD lasers, which I'm pretty sure are not a thing.

Edited by Arctic Fox, 03 December 2015 - 12:01 PM.

[Scar Glamour]

IS LRMs better than clan?
No IS mech can do what I do with WHK carrying LRM45, an LPL, and 2 ER-ML. Cluster effect is only important against AMS, and who carries AMS these days?

IS lasers have a shorter duration?
Clan ER-ML has almost the same reach as IS LL at a much lower weight. I figure you can more than make up the difference in heat generation by plugging a few more DHS.
LPL has almost half the range of c-LPL. The pulse duration is shorter, sure, but IS LPL is a short-range weapon and cannot be used to pound folks at 600+ meters like c-LPL can. Try fighting a 4xLPL WHK with a 4 LPL STK if you don't trust me.

IS SRMs are better?
They are only ever so slightly better in terms of damage and speed than c-SRM at the cost of higher weight. IS ACs are more ammo-effective, but the rapid fire of c-UAC makes up for it.
I am not even touching clan streaks, because no one ever uses IS streaks and not because they are too OP.

Clan XL makes your mech less maneuverable when an ST blows?
Well, IS XL with an ST gone makes you dead. In the heat of battle it is a major inconvenience.

Oh, and before you claim that being an IS pilot made me jaded to how OP IS mechs are, exactly half the mechs I own are clan.

[El Bandito]

Stefka Kerensky, on 02 December 2015 - 11:14 PM, said:

and I'm not a clanner but a merc, but I still say the IS are uberquirked and OP now.
No problem for me, tho. I simply switch.

But saying there is a balance now, it is very wrong or...you really like this balance for....reasons

IS OP now? Thanks for the laugh. See you in the next big MWO tournament--lets see if the IS mechs will dominate the roster.

Drunk Canuck, on 03 December 2015 - 10:24 AM, said:

Some of the quirks for IS are a bit over the top. Energy heat gen quirks for GHRs are crazy, I can alpha 3 LPL and 4 ML with only basic skills and not shut down from it. Do that with a Clan Mech and you probably won't live to start back up now.

I can bet you a mech pack that I can start up just fine after alphaing 2CLPLs+ 4 CERMLs in a basic Timbie. In fact, I won't even overheat.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 December 2015 - 10:51 AM.

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 03 December 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

IS OP now? Thanks for the laugh.

So, you do think Bj-1x is like a normal/standard IS medium should be, right (also durable like a heavy now)?

Or the Battlemaster 1S has the obvius and proper energy range it deserves
I could go on with other uberquirks, but I'm sure you have read them.

Or maybe I'm the "miracle worker", beating any clan chassis using with IS mech from the patch.

Am I wrong or you yourself stated that were far better a "weapons rebalance" and NOT this sh1t called Quirk system?

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 03 December 2015 - 12:30 PM.

[Mystere]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 03 December 2015 - 12:14 AM, said:

Overall in game in each category post-patch:

• 6x cSPL ACH
  
• BJ-1X
  
• BLK-7-KNT-L
  
• BNC-3M

In other words ...

IS are OP! Nerf Them NAO!!!

(Did I do that right, Spheroids?)

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Mystere, on 03 December 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

In other words ...

IS are OP! Nerf Them NAO!!!

(Did I do that right, Spheroids?)

You need to Cryharder^tm