91 replies to this topic

[V O L T R O N]

With all these new non ecm mechs coming out, buff to lrms and such. The ecm being nerfed. 90 meters is pretty decent but smaller than you would think. Bap counter is stll pretty far compared to ecms range. Bap was made to counter an op ecm. Then the range of the counter was extended due to whiners.

I guess this is me whining about balance. If you are going to fix something. Fix the other stuff you changed to go along with it.

1/2 bap counter just as you did with ecm.

Post Edit
Bap range would still be further than ECM range, was before the ECM nerf.... Ecm was 180 bap is 240.

Ecm is 90 now, bap should be 150.

Ecm counter is also 90 meters < second thread edit.

Edited by V O L T R O N, 05 December 2015 - 07:00 AM.

[Valdherre Tor]

+1 for broken

[DivineEvil]

Too hard to tell at the moment. Personally I don't think it is necessary. BAP is not that popular to begin with, compared to ECM, which is always placed on a mech that can carry it, and variants/omnipods are still picked for that trait. Reducing BAP counter range will simply make it meaningless, since it will require to move too close to the enemy group.

[Kilo 40]

if you cut the range of BAP, then you nerf the effective range of streaks.

BAP is fine where it is.

[Lily from animove]

For the light assassins the reduction was actually a buff, because now their opponent will get the indicator of "low signal" later, and mostlikely too late.

However if BAP yould be reduced whats the point of BAP then? you would literally have to hug the mech to counter the ecm or the mechs they cover. With the informationw arfare idea of PGI ecm metagameplay will just be staying outside of the opponent soptimal range to have the damage reduction by ecm. Mostlikely any mechloadout able to go wirld weapons wih their own optimal range outside tag and narc to prevent them form workign too.

and there you go then, with your magical [redacted] damage deflector.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 04 December 2015 - 03:59 PM.
Unconstructive

[Cataclysm315]

I think BAP should be left where it is. ECM has two modes, where BAP is designed solely for disrupting ECM and increasing sensor range and stuff like that.

[old man odin]

Would nerfing BAP really change anything for ECMs usefulness? I didn't even notice ECM getting nerfed or BAP being buffed to be honest. We just never used it. I'm surprised there is actually a level of play where it's important to the balance at all. Cover, Radar Deprivation and an extra 1.5 tons dedicated to shooting nerds always seemed the better option.

I think the only time we consciously chose ECM (rather than it being forced like in Drop 1 MRBC or something on an already good chassis e.g. Hellbringers) was a few new Forest Colony drops where you'd quite often get locks before eyeballs thanks to the dense foliage. Even then we were probably just over thinking things. In pub queue and CW? Never.

I'm not saying BAP shouldn't be nerfed or ECM buffed, I just don't see any situation where it's really a big deal. If for some reason I wanted to run an LRM shenanigans drop I'd just be focusing on spamming UAVs anyway.

Kilo 40, on 03 December 2015 - 04:36 AM, said:

if you cut the range of BAP, then you nerf the effective range of streaks.

Oh damn, hadn't thought of this. I utterly disagree with you then, if it's an effective nerf to streaks than it's a +1 for me. Streaks can go [redacted].

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 04 December 2015 - 04:01 PM.
Language

[Karl Streiger]

ECM Nerf? You don't get a "low signal" - this is good for scouts... because now they may slip through.

Truth when i take ECM i only do it for the I in the word team, if it should have been a tool for team it should give players the choice - protect your team, or protect yourself.

With the reduction of 90m its obvious just a protection for the pilot using it. and cause of the limited range the "counter" ECM mode is senseless.

Of course to limit range of BAP may have a positive effect - not that it does matter in 99.99% of all games - it reduce the detection range of powered down mechs

[Kyle Travis]

I like taking a BAP on my Assauts as people often think its a lighter mech on their screens or if a light ecm mech tries to jump you on its own

[Lugh]

BAP should really have a longer range than it does. It is the BEAGLE ACTIVE PROBE.

Active sonar and radar signatures have longer ranges than their passive counterparts. The compromise is that they in turn make it easier to detect the detector. Therefor it should become easier to lock the BAP mech.

But hey, we are PGI and we never ever played any sort of military simulator for modern warfare, let alone bothering to study advanced weapon systems to better understand how a 'fantasy' version of those self same systems would work...

*SIGH*

[Davegt27]

"Oh damn, hadn't thought of this. I utterly disagree with you then, if it's an effective nerf to streaks than it's a +1 for me. Streaks can go [redacted]"


LOL.

I did not have a problem with ECM so not sure why they nerfed it
PGI only knows nerf so I am wondering if they did not nerf streaks also
My guess is streaks have been nerfed I bet money on it

I used to be weapons control in my AF days so I love my streaks
I been away from my PC for a month so I hope they don't change anything

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 04 December 2015 - 04:02 PM.
Language in quote

[Lugh]

Davegt27, on 03 December 2015 - 05:37 AM, said:

"Oh damn, hadn't thought of this. I utterly disagree with you then, if it's an effective nerf to streaks than it's a +1 for me. Streaks can go [redacted] "


LOL.

I did not have a problem with ECM so not sure why they nerfed it
PGI only knows nerf so I am wondering if they did not nerf streaks also
My guess is streaks have been nerfed I bet money on it

I used to be weapons control in my AF days so I love my streaks
I been away from my PC for a month so I hope they don't change anything

Streaks have the longest cooldown in game 6s are 6 seconds 4 are 5. the only weapon with an as long cooldown is Gauss and LRM 20s

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 04 December 2015 - 04:04 PM.
Language in quote in quote

[Screech]

Yeah it should have been but that would have involved having an following through a coherent plan. And they don't have time for that.

[V O L T R O N]

Lily from animove, on 03 December 2015 - 04:36 AM, said:

For the light assassins the reduction was actually a buff, because now their opponent will get the indicator of "low signal" later, and mostlikely too late.

However if BAP yould be reduced whats the point of BAP then? you would literally have to hug the mech to counter the ecm or the mechs they cover. With the informationw arfare idea of PGI ecm metagameplay will just be staying outside of the opponent soptimal range to have the damage reduction by ecm. Mostlikely any mechloadout able to go wirld weapons wih their own optimal range outside tag and narc to prevent them form workign too.

and there you go then, with your magical [redacted] damage deflector.

Bap range would still be further than ECM range, was before the ECM nerf.... Ecm was 180 bap is 240.

Ecm is 90 now, bap should be 150.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 04 December 2015 - 04:05 PM.
Unconstructive in quote

[Mechteric]

ECM still grants you an invisible dorito outsite the BAP range which is still the most useful thing in the game, period.

Furthermore the Guardian ECM in BattleTech wasn't really ever meant to shield friendly mechs like this anyway (Angle ECM was what did that), be glad PGI has decided to keep this functionality at all.

[GoodTry]

There is no reason to nerf BAP. Its range isn't meant to correspond to the ECM range. ECM cuts of your target dorito at infinite range. That is what BAP counters with its 240m range. The infinite range of ECM wasn't changed, just the protect-my-buddy range (which was stupid anyway, there is no reason it should protect all of your friends).

So there is no reason to nerf BAP.

Plus, few people take BAP anyway. Why make that number even smaller?

Edited by GoodTry, 03 December 2015 - 06:23 AM.

[BigBenn]

The benefits of ECM far outweigh the benefits of BAP. Just how often in CW do you hear anyone say "who has BAP, we need BAP"? Now how often do you hear "who has ECM, we need ECM"?

BAP only really helps the rare long range dueler and the missile mechs. Even then, with how quickly ranges close the benefits really are not long lived.

I vote no change. Leave BAP as is.

[sycocys]

Personally I don't think you look at the ecm counters until ecm is actually fixed [redacted]

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 04 December 2015 - 04:07 PM.
Unconstructive

[WarPickle]

Maybe if you would get any type of reward for providing ecm coverage to friendly mechs or rewards for countering ecm with bap this would matter.

ecm is mildly useful now so not like bap range makes any kind of difference for countering it...

[sycocys]

BasicInfantry, on 03 December 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

Maybe if you would get any type of reward for providing ecm coverage to friendly mechs or rewards for countering ecm with bap this would matter.

ecm is mildly useful now so not like bap range makes any kind of difference for countering it...

You do get rewards for countering ecm with bap actually. Last Tuk I cleared 120k in c-bills from it before the first shots were even fired.