172 replies to this topic

[Pjwned]

Can we at least finally increase the amount of time to hold a charged shot? Currently when you hold down the fire button (for 0.75 seconds) you only have 1.25 seconds before the shot dissipates, and that's not enough time to hold the shot; the time to hold the shot should be doubled (so 2.5 seconds) or at the very minimum make it 2 seconds. Can we address this usability issue that has been repeatedly brought up for months on end, or is it going to be ignored still?

The cooldown nerf on gauss rifles is ridiculously overdone by the way, it wasn't needed at all and instead other bad weapons that nobody uses should've been buffed to make them not garbage, but that's not the easy way out so of course it wasn't done. That said, the thread is mostly about compensating gauss rifles in some small way by increasing the amount of time to hold a shot, so discuss.

[Darlith]

I would find the gauss more usable, or friendly to use anyway if they would either get rid of the charge now that they increased the cooldown (so the dps is quite weak), or you could hold the charge longer (so I could line up a shot better).

Does it need it? That part is questionable at the moment, ask again in a week or so when everyone stops playing with every combination they knew didn't work pre-patch and goes back to whatever they think works best. Since if I was going off the weapons usage of the last few matches I'd say LRMs and SRMs must be OP because tons of them were on the field.

[Monkey Lover]

Gauss is at the point when I question if I should even use it anymore. I guess we could call this balanced. I would like to see the wait time increased but this would be a buff so I would say no.

[Vxheous]

Used my gauss builds for a bit last night, I feel if I want a heat efficient mech now, I might as well just pair a single Clan large pulse laser with some mediums and throw on as many heatsinks as I can fit, instead of using the gauss. Tried using CUAC-5, and CUAC-10, and just feels so sub-par.

It is like having standard laser vomit (2 CLPL + whatever amount of mediums you are comfortable with) for regular/cold maps and then a cut down laser vomit (1 CLPL + whatever amount of mediums you are comfortable with) for hot maps.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 03 December 2015 - 08:22 AM.

[sycocys]

I found it to be pretty useful along side LRMs last night. Even managed to kill a teammate with it when I forgot it was on the left arm.

Personally I found that I'd just sacrifice a ton or two of ammo to upgrade firepower elsewhere and use it as more of a situational weapon rather than the primary. All in all, longer cd for me promotes more mixed builds so its not a bad deal.

[Pjwned]

Darlith, on 03 December 2015 - 07:59 AM, said:

I would find the gauss more usable, or friendly to use anyway if they would either get rid of the charge now that they increased the cooldown (so the dps is quite weak), or you could hold the charge longer (so I could line up a shot better).

I don't agree with removing the charge-up in response to the ridiculous cooldown nerf, the charge-up mechanic itself is fine and makes the weapon balanced. The only problem with the charge-up is (and has been) that it doesn't allow you to hold a charged shot for long enough.

Quote

Does it need it? That part is questionable at the moment, ask again in a week or so when everyone stops playing with every combination they knew didn't work pre-patch and goes back to whatever they think works best. Since if I was going off the weapons usage of the last few matches I'd say LRMs and SRMs must be OP because tons of them were on the field.

Gauss rifles have needed a longer amount of time to hold the shot since the beginning. It's not a question of whether it needs it now, the question is now that gauss rifles got a huge nerf to their already pretty awful DPS are we going to see this usability issue fixed.

[Lucian Nostra]

I just want to see Gauss go to a 10% chance to explode when critted like ammo currently is. It'll help IS mechs with XLs and clan mechs as well. It' also help to balance the fact that the ammo not exploding isn't such a big deal since ammo explosions are fairly rare being both in ideal storage locations and having only a 10% boom chance

[Dimento Graven]

sycocys, on 03 December 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

I found it to be pretty useful along side LRMs last night. Even managed to kill a teammate with it when I forgot it was on the left arm....

<sigh>

Ok, so did you actually manage to kill an ENEMY with the gauss?

And how well did the gauss do while you were brawling lights? How'd that go in your LRM/gauss build?

[old man odin]

Cards on the table, I bloody love Gauss. Before the last HSR change it was about the only thing that hit reliably with my high Australian ping. The 2G/3ML Timby/EBJ builds that my unit used heavily in MRBC and Midway were my creation. Safe to say that I've got a vested interest in Gauss being good. With that said:

I think Gauss is actually in a decent place at the moment. It was ridiculously overpowered before. The damage on our Timbies was just unmatched by pretty much anything. Exceedingly heat efficient, high alpha and 30 PPFLD (headshots in comp was hilarious) with an extremely easy weapon group set up. Now the DPS has gone down to a reasonable level. If anything the erML nerf hurt more.

...which leads us to IS mechs. Some of the ballistic quirked mechs are still great for this. Gauss/3LL and it's variations is still the best mid range. Only a handful of LPL builds on quirked mechs out damage it for the tonnage. It's heat efficient, pin point and with great range still.

[Alianton]

yeah. it's quite difficult and annoying to use now, but like someone said above, it's Very diffcult to replace it with anything else.

I run 2 LPL + 1ML + Gauss on a timberwolf, and i've tried it with all sorts of other ballistics, but nothing is close. The nerf is Very much felt :/

[Dimento Graven]

Odins Steed, on 03 December 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

Cards on the table, I bloody love Gauss. Before the last HSR change it was about the only thing that hit reliably with my high Australian ping. The 2G/3ML Timby/EBJ builds that my unit used heavily in MRBC and Midway were my creation. Safe to say that I've got a vested interest in Gauss being good. With that said:

I think Gauss is actually in a decent place at the moment. It was ridiculously overpowered before. The damage on our Timbies was just unmatched by pretty much anything. Exceedingly heat efficient, high alpha and 30 PPFLD (headshots in comp was hilarious) with an extremely easy weapon group set up. Now the DPS has gone down to a reasonable level. If anything the erML nerf hurt more.

...which leads us to IS mechs. Some of the ballistic quirked mechs are still great for this. Gauss/3LL and it's variations is still the best mid range. Only a handful of LPL builds on quirked mechs out damage it for the tonnage. It's heat efficient, pin point and with great range still.

From your statement it either sounds like you're saying you were running dual gauss builds on Timberwolves and Ebon Jaguars, OR, that you were getting hit hard by dual gauss carriers while in your Timberwolves and EBJ's.

I didn't think there was a configuration in Timberwolf that could run dual gauss, if so, Smurphy it for me, I'd be interested in reviewing it.

Doing the same in an EBJ well, you're left with what? 45 ammo, at best (if you max out armor, obviously a bit more if you're willing to sacrifice armor), and a lot less if you want a backup weapon of some sort.

Considering the 6.25 seconds between shots on the weapon, you're saying it's "fine" for the EBJ, which pretty much will end up ONLY having dual gauss as a weapon, that can ONLY shoot every 6.25 seconds, and NOW it's fine??!?!

I disagree with your assessment, and actually don't really believe you use it all that much...

[Lily from animove]

they could change charge mechanics. you can charge/uncharge gauss at any time, yet keeping the gauss on charge produces heat until you either fire or uncharge it. So that pilots have to measure by their own when to charge up to shorten the time it stays chrged up until fired.

Dimento Graven, on 03 December 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

From your statement it either sounds like you're saying you were running dual gauss builds on Timberwolves and Ebon Jaguars, OR, that you were getting hit hard by dual gauss carriers while in your Timberwolves and EBJ's.

I didn't think there was a configuration in Timberwolf that could run dual gauss, if so, Smurphy it for me, I'd be interested in reviewing it.

Doing the same in an EBJ well, you're left with what? 45 ammo, at best (if you max out armor, obviously a bit more if you're willing to sacrifice armor), and a lot less if you want a backup weapon of some sort.

Considering the 6.25 seconds between shots on the weapon, you're saying it's "fine" for the EBJ, which pretty much will end up ONLY having dual gauss as a weapon, that can ONLY shoot every 6.25 seconds, and NOW it's fine??!?!

I disagree with your assessment, and actually don't really believe you use it all that much...

not forgetting how this is only around 675damage you can push out, given all shots hit AND are on full damage range.

Edited by Lily from animove, 03 December 2015 - 09:12 AM.

[Dock Steward]

Dimento Graven, on 03 December 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

I didn't think there was a configuration in Timberwolf that could run dual gauss, if so, Smurphy it for me, I'd be interested in reviewing it.

I didn't bother optimizing it, just slapped it together to prove it can be done. There are a few other options to do it as well...


http://mwo.smurfy-ne...40c06af098c1b5e

[Almond Brown]

It would be preferred if players "whined" about the other Ballistics. Take the AC2, a great weapon for that single left over slot except @6t you get "2 pts. of damage" Come on Man!". The Gauss, ton for ton, is god like in comparison. It is #2 on the Ballistic damage list ffs.

If somehow one could get 4 AC2's on a Ballistic chassis without using up 24t (sans ammo) now that would be truly great.

P.S. Being able to hold the shot longer defeats the purpose of the charge totally so NO. Learn to live with a high damage, blistering fast shell speed (2000ms) before quirks/mods, that can travel out to 3X its optimal range or try the LB 10-X.

Edited by Almond Brown, 03 December 2015 - 09:18 AM.

[old man odin]

Dimento Graven, on 03 December 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

From your statement it either sounds like you're saying you were running dual gauss builds on Timberwolves and Ebon Jaguars, OR, that you were getting hit hard by dual gauss carriers while in your Timberwolves and EBJ's.

I didn't think there was a configuration in Timberwolf that could run dual gauss, if so, Smurphy it for me, I'd be interested in reviewing it.

Doing the same in an EBJ well, you're left with what? 45 ammo, at best (if you max out armor, obviously a bit more if you're willing to sacrifice armor), and a lot less if you want a backup weapon of some sort.

Considering the 6.25 seconds between shots on the weapon, you're saying it's "fine" for the EBJ, which pretty much will end up ONLY having dual gauss as a weapon, that can ONLY shoot every 6.25 seconds, and NOW it's fine??!?!

I disagree with your assessment, and actually don't really believe you use it all that much...

Do your own bloody leg work, it's not hard to figure out both the RT and RA can fit Gauss on the Timby. I get that you're RRB but come on, don't go full minda here.

And I explicitly said these were 2Gauss+3ML builds. You've got back up weapons with an extremely cool running 51 point alpha. Ammo is 4 tons for the pub stomper build, armor is stripped significantly but it's not as big a deal as you think.

Yes I think it's fine. If that delay is too much for a build with only two Gauss stop using just two Gauss. 1G/6ML was another viable build pre-nerf that still works.

And mate, if you don't think I've run it much go watch our MRBC recordings. I'm made fun of for only running dual Gauss in AU comp circles.

Edited by Odins Steed, 03 December 2015 - 01:15 PM.

[BigBenn]

See what you can do with a Jager -DD armed with 4 AC2's vs 2 gauss..... report back.

[Pjwned]

Lily from animove, on 03 December 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

they could change charge mechanics. you can charge/uncharge gauss at any time, yet keeping the gauss on charge produces heat until you either fire or uncharge it. So that pilots have to measure by their own when to charge up to shorten the time it stays chrged up until fired.

I suppose that's a potentially interesting idea, though there would still need to be a minimum charge duration to prevent abuse and the heat generation would need to be fairly significant for allowing snapshot capability.

[Night Thastus]

I think with the nerf to cooldown, they should just remove the charge mechanic alltogether. Makes them a bit more viable, IMO.

[Lily from animove]

Almond Brown, on 03 December 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

It would be preferred if players "whined" about the other Ballistics. Take the AC2, a great weapon for that single left over slot except @6t you get "2 pts. of damage" Come on Man!". The Gauss, ton for ton, is god like in comparison. It is #2 on the Ballistic damage list ffs.

If somehow one could get 4 AC2's on a Ballistic chassis without using up 24t (sans ammo) now that would be truly great.

P.S. Being able to hold the shot longer defeats the purpose of the charge totally so NO. Learn to live with a high damage, blistering fast shell speed (2000ms) before quirks/mods, that can travel out to 3X its optimal range or try the LB 10-X.

well people would have to see it at a Ac15. if you then take it in comparison to the AC 10 and 20 you would see its a bit OP for what it delivers. Yet also the AC 5 is out of balance compared to the Ac 2 and AC 10. the ballistics do not scale well at all.

The AC 2 heat changes were abit of an imporvement at least.

Night Thastus, on 03 December 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

I think with the nerf to cooldown, they should just remove the charge mechanic alltogether. Makes them a bit more viable, IMO.

No, sry surely the weapon itself is not the issue, btuthe combination of PPFLD it can create together with other wepaons would stay problematic Thats why we got the initial gauss charge.

Edited by Lily from animove, 03 December 2015 - 09:22 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Odins Steed, on 03 December 2015 - 09:16 AM, said:

Do you're own bloody leg work, it's not hard to figure out both the RT and RA can fit Gauss on the Timby. I get that you're RRB but come on, don't go full minda here.

And I explicitly said these were 2Gauss+3ML builds. You've got back up weapons with an extremely cool running 51 point alpha. Ammo is 4 tons for the pub stomper build, armor is stripped significantly but it's not as big a deal as you think.

Yes I think it's fine. If that delay is too much for a build with only two Gauss stop using just two Gauss. 1G/6ML was another viable build pre-nerf that still works.

And mate, if you don't think I've run it much go watch our MRBC recordings. I'm made fun off for only running dual Gauss in AU comp circles.

My only concern with those builds is it is easy to get the RT crit and lose BOTH GR.

I wonder what effect on balance if the cooldown was left where it was at, but the volatility was adjusted/removed.