172 replies to this topic

[old man odin]

Dimento Graven, on 03 December 2015 - 12:52 PM, said:

You're coming off as the authority, YOU prove it.

Because some Euros have high pings just like Aussies.

First, you get that the part you quoted is about why uploading is problematic for some but not others right? Second, mate, that's not how this works. Not only is the ping difference extreme (~100-150 vs ~250-300) to North America it's not relevant at all to uploading videos.

Dimento Graven, on 03 December 2015 - 12:52 PM, said:

Yeah because your statement included what I found to be extremely contradictory statements like:

"Before the last HSR change it was about the only thing that hit reliably with my high Australian ping."

"It was ridiculously overpowered before."

"Now the DPS has gone down to a reasonable level. If anything the erML nerf hurt more."

Do you have some super secret different definition for contradictory? None of those statements exclude the other.

• Yes, before the HSR changes several months ago Gauss was far more reliable for lasers for hit reg at high ping.
  
• Yes, I believe Gauss was over powered before it was nerfed this patch.
  
• Yes, I think this nerf was reasonable. As far as effecting my Gauss builds, having erML was more significant.

Dimento Graven, on 03 December 2015 - 12:52 PM, said:

led me to believe you don't really use gauss all that often against decent opponents.

For all your crying it's you who tried to talk from a position of authority. You've ignored any civil discussion to scream about how you need evidence to penis measure. You're a hypocrite.

Edited by Odins Steed, 03 December 2015 - 01:09 PM.

[FupDup]

Ghogiel, on 03 December 2015 - 01:07 PM, said:

Measuring it against yours tend to have that effect on penises.

[chimmy]

Dimento Graven, on 03 December 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

...

[Dimento Graven]

Tarogato, on 03 December 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

Instead of accepting that maybe somebody has spent a lot of time using gauss competitively and could teach you a thing or two, you continued to call into question his understanding and conclusions despite that multiple people have backed him up. You only brought this onto yourself.

Hardly, I didn't call him a liar, I stated I didn't believe he used it as much as he stated given his statements.

I asked for vids, and he proceeds to refer to me to screen shots and vids FROM OTHER PEOPLE'S cockpits as proof as to what he's talking about.

Had anyone else done the same in any other thread, y'all had jumped all over it chastising them for inadequate proof, regardless of how many other random people said, "Oh yeah what he says is true"...

That's why I go by the "vids or it didn't happen" mantra, with vids from him or at the very least someone observing him, we could all watch what he's doing, how he's doing it, the circumstances he's doing it under, and judge the value of his opinion.

Apparently, all I got to do is show you people a picture of me standing in front of the Brooklyn Bridge, with a sign saying, "owner", and have a few random people say, "Yep, he owns it", and you'd be willing to purchase it from me for a moderate fee...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 03 December 2015 - 01:18 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Odins Steed, on 03 December 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

First, you get that the part you quoted is about why uploading is problematic for some but not others right? Second, mate, that's not how this works. Not only is the ping difference extreme (~100-150 vs ~250-300) to North America it's not relevant at all to uploading videos. [/i]

Yeah, the thing is, I'm not really worried about the ping aspect from an 'upload of videos' perspective, you're missing my point.

Your statement on how you could reliably hit things previous to the last HSR change is why I mentioned ping, and compared your statements against what I was told by other players with consistent high pings.

It had nothing to do with videos, you misunderstood my intent on that.

Quote

Do you have some super secret different definition for contradictory? None of those statements exclude the other.

• Yes, before the HSR changes several months ago Gauss was far more reliable for lasers for hit reg at high ping.
  
• Yes, I believe Gauss was over powered before it was nerfed this patch.
  
• Yes, I think this nerf was reasonable. As far as effecting my Gauss builds, having erML was more significant.

Yes, these statements contradict statements/sentiments from other players in high ping areas that I've played and had discussions with.

Quote

For all your crying it's you who tried to talk from a position of authority. You've ignored any civil discussion to scream about how you need evidence to penis measure. You're a hypocrite.

BS, you got butthurt because you ran into someone not willing to brown nose you. Aww, poor little Aussie, found someone not worshipful of his awesomeness and went into full tizzy mode.

Whatever, get over yourself.

All I can say about the level of my authority is at least I got vids that prove I could function with the gauss rifle.

[Valar13]

I'm honestly not sure I could even use Gauss effectively without the charge up. It's so ingrained in how I use the weapon that it would take a total re-learn to switch to no charge.

I do feel the cooldown nerf was a bit heavy-handed. It seems like if anything it's going to encourage Gauss use only on 'Mechs that can mount two. What's the point if you can only fire once every 7 seconds if you're not doing enough damage each time to make the target think twice about just charging you down?

[Valar13]

Odins Steed, on 03 December 2015 - 09:16 AM, said:

I get that you're RRB but come on, don't go full minda here.

Ad hominem attacks are the favorite go-to of someone without an actual argument.

[pwnface]

I think you two should just get a room and see whose Gauss is bigger.

Dimento Graven, on 03 December 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

All I can say about the level of my authority is at least I got vids that prove I could function with the gauss rifle.

Having played against Odin very recently in MRBC, I can attest to his ability to use Gauss. There are videos of the shoutcasted matches on twitch and youtube if you care to watch him play.

I don't understand why you keep asking Odin to upload videos of him playing when he has absolutely nothing to prove to you.

I'm positive that Odin is a much better player than you are and you are letting your shiny Tier 1 PSR forum badge get to your head.


In regards to actual Gauss balance, I think they did make the CD too long. I don't think anyone here even cares about the balance anymore and would rather just sword fight with their e-peens.

Edited by pwnface, 03 December 2015 - 01:31 PM.

[old man odin]

Dimento Graven, on 03 December 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

I stated I didn't believe he used it as much as he stated given his statements.

So... a liar?

Dimento Graven, on 03 December 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

I asked for vids, and he proceeds to refer to me to screen shots and vids FROM OTHER PEOPLE'S cockpits as proof as to what he's talking about.

You didn't ask for videos. The only reason they were brought up at all is to counter your "and actually don't really believe you use it all that much..." line. They were never intended be the structure of any argument - the more reasonable posts, not directed at you, have all the math to start a discussion. I'm not even sure what else a video could prove other than, yes, it was used.

Dimento Graven, on 03 December 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

Had anyone else done the same in any other thread, y'all had jumped all over it chastising them for inadequate proof, regardless of how many other random people said, "Oh yeah what he says is true"...

Because I'm such a famous poster that I've got a cult where nobody can disagree with me? I hate to disappoint you mate, but plenty of the people posting against you have disagreed with my original assertion that the nerf brought balance.

Dimento Graven, on 03 December 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

That's why I go by the "vids or it didn't happen" mantra, with vids from him or at the very least someone observing him, we could all watch what he's doing, how he's doing it, the circumstances he's doing it under, and judge the value of his opinion.

You're going to ask for videos of every single person who posted an opinion in a forum to prove that they used Gauss? No, this isn't some regular, reasonable thing. This isn't even how you started this.

Dimento Graven, on 03 December 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

Apparently, all I got to do is show you people of me standing in front of the Brooklyn Bridge, with a sign saying, "owner", and have a few random people say, "Yep, he owns it", and you'd be willing to purchase it from me for a moderate fee...

Yeah, except it's more like all you have to do is have a few people corroborate that I do in fact have a houses so I can express my opinions about home ownership.

Dimento Graven, on 03 December 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

Your statement on how you could reliably hit things previous to the last HSR change is why I mentioned ping, and compared your statements against what I was told by other players with consistent high pings.

It had nothing to do with videos, you misunderstood my intent on that.

Which is why you posted it directly towards a quote about videos. I know it's been a whole four pages, but it's not really enough to make anyone buy your revisionist history.

Dimento Graven, on 03 December 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

Yes, these statements contradict statements/sentiments from other players in high ping areas that I've played and had discussions with.

This is a perfectly reasonable reason to start tirades about how you need proof you even use Gauss for four pages. Rather than, you know, just stating that you had heard differently in a civil manner like a normal person.

Dimento Graven, on 03 December 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

BS, you got butthurt because you ran into someone not willing to brown nose you. Aww, poor little Aussie, found someone not worshipful of his awesomeness and went into full tizzy mode.

Valar13, on 03 December 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

Ad hominem attacks are the favorite go-to of someone without an actual argument.

What, like the no true Scotsman fallacy or ad hominem attack I was responding to?

Yeah, hypocrites.

Edited by Odins Steed, 03 December 2015 - 01:33 PM.

[BigBenn]

Again... PGI, remove the charge up to the gauss. Problem fixed.
The longer cool down is expected and ultimately accepted. The charge up though... is 'assinine.

[Valar13]

Odins Steed, on 03 December 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

What, like the no true Scotsman fallacy or ad hominem attack I was responding to?

Yeah, hypocrites.

Knowing Dimento, he's a guy with opinions and those opinions are strong.

If you feel you have the stronger argument, why weaken it by impugning 200+ people who have nothing to do with this discussion?

Edited by Valar13, 03 December 2015 - 01:39 PM.

[pwnface]

Valar13, on 03 December 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

Ad hominem attacks are the favorite go-to of someone without an actual argument.

Sometimes people just like to verbally attack each other and it has nothing to do with the argument. Just because insulting the person you are arguing with doesn't strengthen your argument, it doesn't mean you can't call someone a cvntwaffle anyway. An ad hominem is when you use a personal attack as the basis for your argument, which this was not. If you have a valid argument and want to throw insults anyway, it's your prerogative do so .

Also, hope to RRB in CW. Finally back in Kurita

Edited by pwnface, 03 December 2015 - 01:38 PM.

[Valar13]

FWIW, there was no point in asking for video proof, Dimento. YMMV and different people will have different experiences.

I feel the nerf was heavy-handed, as do you. Hopefully PGI will gather enough data and feedback to decide whether this is true on a meta-level.


**not as in metagame, if that needs clarification.

pwnface, on 03 December 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

Sometimes people just like to verbally attack each other and it has nothing to do with the argument. Just because insulting the person you are arguing with doesn't strengthen your argument, it doesn't mean you can't call someone a cvntwaffle anyway.

Also, hope to RRB in CW. Finally back in Kurita

Looking forward to it.

For the record, my posts here lack the context of the peacekeeping I do on our own site. 'S what I do. And it was classless to insult 200+ people who, again, are entirely uninvolved in this discussion. If you're going to attack someone, attack them and not every single person who wears the same unit tags.

Edited by Valar13, 03 December 2015 - 01:40 PM.

[pwnface]

Valar13, on 03 December 2015 - 01:37 PM, said:

I feel the nerf was heavy-handed, as do you. Hopefully PGI will gather enough data and feedback to decide whether this is true on a meta-level.

PGI's data gathering and feedback is what gave us the ridiculous BJ-1X structure quirks we have now. Instead of number crunching, they should just get decent at the game and learn what actually works.

[Valar13]

pwnface, on 03 December 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

PGI's data gathering and feedback is what gave us the ridiculous BJ-1X structure quirks we have now. Instead of number crunching, they should just get decent at the game and learn what actually works.

Fair point. It does feel like they balance to what the whiners can't deal with instead of trying to bring the sub-optimal hardware in line with the optimal hardware.

Edited by Valar13, 03 December 2015 - 01:43 PM.

[old man odin]

Valar13, on 03 December 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

Knowing Dimento, he's a guy with opinions and those opinions are strong.

If you feel you have the stronger argument, why weaken it?

Except there was no real argument to weaken. He hadn't countered my original civil posts he'd just dismissed it with ad hominem. All I can really do at that point is to reply in turn or ignore him and where is the fun in that? He's not particularly coherent and unwilling to do more than ask for a penis measuring contest. Perfect for trash talking.

If it was just a case of disagreeing on the nature of the nerf that'd be great. That's what this thread was for, but he didn't even give it a chance.

[Valar13]

Odins Steed, on 03 December 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

Except there was no real argument to weaken. He hadn't countered my original civil posts he'd just dismissed it with ad hominem. All I can really do at that point is to reply in turn or ignore him and where is the fun in that? He's not particularly coherent and unwilling to do more than ask for a penis measuring contest. Perfect for trash talking.

If it was just a case of disagreeing on the nature of the nerf that'd be great. That's what this thread was for, but he didn't even give it a chance.

You quoted the pre-edit, sorry. I was just asking the necessity of attacking every member of a rather large unit when you were arguing with one member of that unit.

[old man odin]

Valar13, on 03 December 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

You quoted the pre-edit, sorry. I was just asking the necessity of attacking every member of a rather large unit when you were arguing with one member of that unit.

Low hanging fruit? I don't actually know much about him, needed a place to start from and RRB hasn't exactly ingratiated themselves with, well, anyone. Including myself.

[Dimento Graven]

Valar13, on 03 December 2015 - 01:37 PM, said:

FWIW, there was no point in asking for video proof, Dimento. YMMV and different people will have different experiences.

My whole point about asking for vids, as I've stated numerous times is:

I want to see his process. I want to see him select his targets to understand what he sees as a target priority, what he's aiming at, his preferred style of attack, stand offish or brawly or set back sniper, what the circumstances are when he gets these great scores.

It's part of the reason so many of my videos were FULL MATCH videos. You can get target calling, comms info, chat, a real feel for the battle and learn things and get ideas you may not have known or had before.

There is a point to asking for vids.

We have SO MANY people on these forums purporting to be MWO gods and then when you run into 'em in matches they turn out to be a pile of wet noodles.

Quote

I feel the nerf was heavy-handed, as do you. Hopefully PGI will gather enough data and feedback to decide whether this is true on a meta-level.

**not as in metagame, if that needs clarification.

I question PGI's ability to interpret their data. Many of their actions based on what they stated the data was at the time were in complete opposition, for example the time we were told that:

'90% of pug stomps are being inflicted by other pugs'

Then two weeks later groups are nerfed into 4 only and 12 only groups.

If most of the pug stomps were being inflicted by pugs it seems rather contradictory to malf up group queues for over a year based on a measly 10% of all matches being played, but they did.

Either PGI has been bad at interpreting data, or bad at making long term decisions...

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Monkey Lover, on 03 December 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

Gauss is at the point when I question if I should even use it anymore. I guess we could call this balanced.

They want to "balance" everything so noone uses any weapons.

then they should bring in melee