215 replies to this topic

[Kaspirikay]

B L A C K J A C K T I M E B O Y Z

[Y E O N N E]

El Bandito, on 04 December 2015 - 12:11 AM, said:

Lies. BJs pre-quirks were laughably bad vs. Wave 1 Clan mechs. Back then Clan lasers were at their strongest state, and IS lasers were pitiful in comparison.

I didn't say it was comp-worthy, but for normal play? It was still a regular 600, 700+ damage machine.

[Widowmaker1981]

FupDup, on 03 December 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

I for one welcome the prospect of another medium mech that isn't completely inferior to its heavy and assault overlords.


I don't really buy the whole "effectiveness for tonnage" argument thing because I don't think that a larger mech should instantly equal direct superiority.

Fine. in that case, all tonnage restrictions in all areas should be removed. If a 12 man wants to run 12 Atlases, let them, if heavier mechs arent supposed to be better. As soon as you introduce tonnage limits, you increase the opportunity cost of heavier mechs, and therefore admit that they should be intrinsically better.

[nitra]

William Mountbank, on 04 December 2015 - 12:37 AM, said:

Are we actually hating on Blackjacks now?

yes, we are. they are devastating now. earlier in the thread 2 lances of them bum rushed an enemy team and massacred em... it was bad ...
one of the enemy team members was heard talking on cnn about how the bjs just kept coming and coming and lazers every where.
and he started hallucinating about john travolta in all white striking a pose and something about staying alive but it was too late, his side torso was gone and he couldnt twist.

he was stuck in the mamba and could only go back and forth with no alpha anymore by this time he was in tears. saying his storm crow used to not care what hit it, all he had to do was alpha again and he could twist on to something else ...

but the bjs just prevent it from being so, anymore. they come over the hills blasting every thing in site not even the artic cheetahs can stop em because the bjs they just just just soooo op it unbelievable.

gawd freaking obama !!!

Edited by nitra, 04 December 2015 - 12:54 AM.

[El Bandito]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 December 2015 - 12:50 AM, said:

I didn't say it was comp-worthy, but for normal play? It was still a regular 600, 700+ damage machine.

And do you have any proof of this, taken from dozens of pilots' expereince?

[Widowmaker1981]

Yeah, whoever did the quirks has a massive, massive hard-on for BJs (see what i did there >_>). Just look at the Vindicator quirks, then at the Blackjack. The Vindi is scaled worse and has far worse hardpoint locations and numbers, yet somehow has worse quirks. What?

[Y E O N N E]

El Bandito, on 04 December 2015 - 01:06 AM, said:

And do you have any proof of this, taken from dozens of pilots' expereince?

What are you trying to prove? I played it at that level all the time during that era, does anything else matter so long as we're not talking about comp? I even did just fine with the BJ-1DC and the Arrow, and with completely vanilla Locusts. Stellar, even, to the point where I stopped taking screenshots because doing so was no longer an event.

When did you suddenly become the "if it's not the absolute best it is trash" type of player? Are you going to sell all of your Battlemasters, now, since they are also sub-par? Where's Bandito and what did you do with him? While you, Fup, McGral, Deathlike, all seem to be of like mind on everything, collectively you are not always correct. Often, the three of you are hyperbolic and only think within tightly confined boxes, and it's frankly sort of ridiculous to watch the circle-jerk of post-liking even when what one of you is saying doesn't actually add-up, i.e. Deathlike hitting the button on FupDup's attempted counters in the Jenner Hitbox thread, none of which were holistic and all of which had obvious solutions. Ditto the Catapult, which even PGI also decided they had to alter in two ways to achieve what could have been done in one because the previous alteration did exactly what I said it would do for exactly the reasons I said it would. Not even McGral's own balance thread is actually right, because it's based entirely on eyeballed values with no system in place to actively measure and check the power level on any particular game item. He just happened to guess close enough to the ball-park that I decided it's not worth the effort to contend, especially because PGI has no desire to actually put effort into figuring out the balance before running ahead with changes anyway.

So, to get back to the topic, I don't require proof because that's my experience. If you couldn't regularly perform with the Blackjacks back then, that's entirely on you, but I did. The BJ-1X will not be as good as it was pre-patch, but it's still a far-cry from being terrible with the new nerfs.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 04 December 2015 - 01:36 AM.

[L3mming2]

it sux they did not just dial back the structure buffs, why did they have to nerf its offense 2 times in a row.. i would have gladly ditched all the structure buffs to get back the offensive quirks, the skill of a good BJ-1X pilot is not to get hit...

[Duke Nedo]

L3mming2, on 04 December 2015 - 01:50 AM, said:

it sux they did not just dial back the structure buffs, why did they have to nerf its offense 2 times in a row.. i would have gladly ditched all the structure buffs to get back the offensive quirks, the skill of a good BJ-1X pilot is not to get hit...

Agree, never really understood why it got so much structure, but whatever... this also works. It needed to be toned down a notch one way or the other. We got the other, but we should be used to always getting the other by now.

[Valar13]

Why are people complaining about BJs?
BJs are awesome.

Everyone loves BJs.

I think some people have too few BJs in their life, and are mad due to this.

Edited by Valar13, 04 December 2015 - 02:38 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Tanar, on 03 December 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

remember the good 'ol days when blackjacks were DOA? how times have changed

which just shows againw hats wrong: How cna emchs pend between DEAD and OP? can it be THAT hard to choose a spot in the middle? Its like the nerf and buff bat PGI has are just so overized. We should send them some fine tuning tools as christmas present.

Edited by Lily from animove, 04 December 2015 - 02:04 AM.

[sycocys]

El Bandito, on 04 December 2015 - 01:06 AM, said:

And do you have any proof of this, taken from dozens of pilots' expereince?

I can add my experience to the list. The 1X for me pre-patch was always a minimum of 600 damage, regularly 900+ with 8 ML setup.

[Kh0rn]

After being gone for 4-5 months and seeing so many blackjacks around games where usually 4 are sighted now I see this I have missed a lot so what did they do to make the Blackjack more powerful. I know it is more durable then before with the increase internals but what else is there ?

[KHETTI]

Basically the BJ had quirks that gave it IS ER medium lasers with reduced heat and duration, and some structure quirks thrown in for good measure, it needed to be changed somewhat.

[El Bandito]

sycocys, on 04 December 2015 - 03:41 AM, said:

I can add my experience to the list. The 1X for me pre-patch was always a minimum of 600 damage, regularly 900+ with 8 ML setup.

We were not talking about the BJ-1X pre-patch. We were talking about the BJ-1X pre-quirks, just when the Clan mechs arrived.

Yeonne Greene, on 04 December 2015 - 01:30 AM, said:

What are you trying to prove? I played it at that level all the time during that era, does anything else matter so long as we're not talking about comp? I even did just fine with the BJ-1DC and the Arrow, and with completely vanilla Locusts. Stellar, even, to the point where I stopped taking screenshots because doing so was no longer an event.

Funny, cause all I remember pre-quirkening in the forums was that BJs were meh, or even sucks. How could BJ be that good if general opinion was against it? Especially when compared to the fresh Stormcrow?

Yeonne Greene, on 04 December 2015 - 01:30 AM, said:

When did you suddenly become the "if it's not the absolute best it is trash" type of player?

Guess I am sick and tired of Clanners whining about IS finally getting a Medium worthy enough to face the Doomcrow, and got immediately nerfed due to said whines. IS should stay inferior cause of lore, amirite? Especially considering the fact the Clan mechs have been dominating the meta for so long, it was becoming stale.

Edited by El Bandito, 04 December 2015 - 05:12 AM.

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 04 December 2015 - 05:03 AM, said:

Guess I am sick and tired of Clanners whining about IS finally getting a Medium worthy enough to face the Doomcrow, and got immediately nerfed due to said whines. IS should stay inferior cause of lore, amirite? Especially considering the fact the Clan mechs have been dominating the meta for so long, it was becoming stale.

It is sad reading this by you, since you always said it is far better a weapon rebalance and not !quirks, quirks everywhere"

[El Bandito]

Stefka Kerensky, on 04 December 2015 - 05:46 AM, said:

It is sad reading this by you, since you always said it is far better a weapon rebalance and not !quirks, quirks everywhere"

I still stand by that position. But judging by the fact PGI had not reduced max range of CLPLs along with other lasers, or balanced 12 ton Clan Gauss with 15 ton IS Gauss, or even given enough love for the only SSRM (the SSRM2) the IS has, I can safely say PGI's balance team has very little idea to balance faction weapons outside of adding/removing quirks to mechs.

Edited by El Bandito, 04 December 2015 - 05:52 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

FupDup, on 03 December 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

I for one welcome the prospect of another medium mech that isn't completely inferior to its heavy and assault overlords.


I don't really buy the whole "effectiveness for tonnage" argument thing because I don't think that a larger mech should instantly equal direct superiority.

isnt that the whole p[oint? I remember pre CB interviews saying how the mechs WERENT suppopsed to do that. That a light COULD outfight an assault and that they DIDNT want a linear tonnage progression path.

From what Ive seen thats pretty much how it works too. If youre in an atlas and youre caught out in the open by a light you should get your slow ass handed right to you so long as the light pilot isnt asleep

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 04 December 2015 - 05:50 AM, said:

I still stand by that position. But judging by the fact PGI had not reduced max range of CLPLs along with other lasers, or balanced 12 ton Clan Gauss with 15 ton IS Gauss, or even given enough love for the only SSRM (the SSRM2) the IS has, I can safely say PGI's balance team has very little idea to balance faction weapons outside of adding/removing quirks to mechs.

Yep, I'm very disappointed by PSR 4.
It is not the way to try to balance stuff, creating "artificial IS heroes" pumped by quirks.
This sucks.

[Mawai]

See ... BJ-1X nerfed in less than a week ...

BJ-1X
Energy Range Quirk has been decreased to +10%.
Laser Duration Quirk has been removed.
Energy Heat Gen Quirk has been decreased to -10%.

Along with some mobility buffs to clan lights and the Summoner, Gargoyle and Executioner.

http://mwomercs.com/...00am-pst-630-pm