126 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Mister Blastman, on 04 December 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

You missed my other posts--I said make the CPLT, VTR and DRG smaller to help with damage spread.

Perhaps, in the mean time, IS+A quirks out the wazoo

Much like the BJ or that 1500 HP Atlas...I kinda wanted that one to go live.

[Elizander]

Calculating surface area of target components to balance this out is hard.

[Bishop Steiner]

DarthRevis, on 04 December 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

I dont see how time makes things smaller....

So 75 tons in 300 years would take up the same space and volume as 80 tons in the past?

huh?

General trend of technology. Things get more compact. New lighter alloys, small processors and computers, more compact but powerful actuators, etc. Compare the M60 to an M1A1. Similar proportions (Abrams is a little longer, barely wider, but shorter), yet the Abrams is not only nearly 20 tons heavier, but superior in every manner. One could construct a modern analogue to match the capabilities of an M60, and it would be smaller and lighter than the original M60. (see the Stingray Light Tank. Actually, if one refitted it with chobham armor and modern countermeasures it would be vastly superior)

Also, small front ain't exactly the same as small. Bloody massive side profile.

Also, if you look a lot of newer mechs are smaller (aka more correctly) profiled, like the Zeus. Just because previous mechs were poorly scaled (and inconsistently so, to boot) is no reason to continue the trend. Scale new mechs better, means less rescale work down the line. First 4 recalls already in the pipeline... so why shouldn't the Marauder be scaled correctly from the get go?

Mister Blastman, on 04 December 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

You missed my other posts--I said make the CPLT, VTR and DRG smaller to help with damage spread.

And they're working on it. Catapult starts in a week or so. After the first 4, then there will be another batch.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 04 December 2015 - 01:56 PM.

[Madcap72]

^{It's a 75 ton mech that per canon is hard to kill.}

So, what's the problem? It's too Battletech and not MWO enough?

[JSmith7784]

Thanks for the replies. I played about 10 matches with my HBK-4SP today and I'm still finding it incredibly hard to kill a Marauder. I added Artemis to my SRM6's, then dropped to SRM4's and then settled on SRM4's with artemis. I can hammer away at a Marauder with 5ML and 2xASRM4's, but the mech just won't go down. I've actually been doing well by following a friendly Marauder and using him as cover. I guess I didn't realize how much armor they have and then the heavy internal structure numbers.

I then switched over to my Hellbringer, (Loki) and had much better results using a Guass/ML combo against Marauders. I'm guessing the SRM's aren't hitting as hard as I expected. Even switched up the Guass for a UAC/20 and had no problem hurting Marauders and getting kill shots.

It's a shame cause I really like my HBK-4SP and my other SRM carrying mechs. Just wish the SRM's did a little more damage. My next test will be using my HBK-4G and 4P to see how they do against Marauders.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Render, on 04 December 2015 - 06:28 AM, said:

That's funny... I just went head to head with a Mad Cat in my Mad and he beat me like a... well you know

I did that earlier with my 2LBX+5 ML Mad and once I poked through the CT armor he went down faster than me after a couple of martinis.

[Sandpit]

I'm not sure what is meant by "taking too much damage". It only takes as much damage as it is hit by.

[Snuggles Time]

Possibly there is a tier disparity here. In higher tier matches where people focus fire and tend to send all of their damage to a single component I find that the MAD is on par with any other 75 ton mech. People knock out your right torso first then your left torso, there is only one MAD variant that can sort of zombie; the rest will be walking sticks. Nine out of ten times I die have been without both of my side torsos.

[Sandpit]

Render, on 04 December 2015 - 06:28 AM, said:

That's funny... I just went head to head with a Mad Cat in my Mad and he beat me like a... well you know

That statements give absolutely no information in regards to balance

[Signal27]

Sandpit, on 04 December 2015 - 08:17 PM, said:

I'm not sure what is meant by "taking too much damage". It only takes as much damage as it is hit by.

I'm guessing he actually meant that Marauders typically have a longer "Time to Kill" as compared to most other mechs.

[WILL WORK FOR JUMPJETS]

Something you should all consider on mech tankiness is the fact that unlike the Timber and Pult, the arms don't protect jack squat. With either cat, and most other humanoid heavies, torso twisting will often distribute damage to the arms which you can use to save yourself. The marauder however has low slung forward mounted arms that don't cover up jack diddly.

[Sandpit]

Signal27, on 04 December 2015 - 08:22 PM, said:

I'm guessing he actually meant that Marauders typically have a longer "Time to Kill" as compared to most other mechs.

Yes, I know, but his statement implies that he faced off toe to toe with another mech and lost because his Mad was "weaker"
Loadouts
Ranges
Modules
Mastered or not
Individual piloting skill
those are just a few of the factors that go into deciding who wins in a standoff. Basing the "balance" and "worth" on examples like this is pretty much why you do not and can not base balance on anecdotal evidence.

[Davegt27]

JSmith7784, on 04 December 2015 - 05:50 AM, said:

Been noticed the Marauder seems to take more damage than my assault mechs. I recently brought out my HBK-4SP for a few matches. I went head to head with a Marauder and we both had 100% undamaged mechs. I fired 4 SRM6x2 and 5 MLx5 salvos into his CT from under 200m. All hit and registered red. I went down and he only had a yellow open side torso and an orange armor CT. It was the only mech I fought and the end screen showed a litte over 200 damage. I'm only mentioning this one cause it just happened and is fresh in my mind.

Is this just a new mech and the hit boxes are messed up? Is this another hit detection problem with SRM's? been seeing a few posts about that as well.

Normal you will see all kinds of weird stuff best to just suck it up

Oh and welcome to the tin hat club

[Y E O N N E]

Isaac Davion, on 04 December 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

Something you should all consider on mech tankiness is the fact that unlike the Timber and Pult, the arms don't protect jack squat. With either cat, and most other humanoid heavies, torso twisting will often distribute damage to the arms which you can use to save yourself. The marauder however has low slung forward mounted arms that don't cover up jack diddly.

And still they get shot off with moderately alarming frequency. Most of that, though, is simply because people are awful at holding burns even on side torsos as large as the MAD's.

[Jun Watarase]

Isaac Davion, on 04 December 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

Something you should all consider on mech tankiness is the fact that unlike the Timber and Pult, the arms don't protect jack squat. With either cat, and most other humanoid heavies, torso twisting will often distribute damage to the arms which you can use to save yourself. The marauder however has low slung forward mounted arms that don't cover up jack diddly.

The timberwolf has a potruding CT that you can aim for when they try to torso twist. The arms dont cover that.

[Y E O N N E]

Jun Watarase, on 05 December 2015 - 01:13 AM, said:

The timberwolf has a potruding CT that you can aim for when they try to torso twist. The arms dont cover that.

Depends on how tall you are. From a Locust's perspective (and I imagine pretty much all Lights), the arms do, in fact, obscure the CT if you're on level ground and close-ish.

Also, TBR arms can at least protect the STs, the MAD's cannot. Just shoot the MAD in its positively enormous badonkadonk from the side and watch that ST pop right off.

[stoogah]

JSmith7784, on 04 December 2015 - 02:59 PM, said:

Thanks for the replies. I played about 10 matches with my HBK-4SP today and I'm still finding it incredibly hard to kill a Marauder. I added Artemis to my SRM6's, then dropped to SRM4's and then settled on SRM4's with artemis. I can hammer away at a Marauder with 5ML and 2xASRM4's, but the mech just won't go down. I've actually been doing well by following a friendly Marauder and using him as cover. I guess I didn't realize how much armor they have and then the heavy internal structure numbers.

I then switched over to my Hellbringer, (Loki) and had much better results using a Guass/ML combo against Marauders. I'm guessing the SRM's aren't hitting as hard as I expected. Even switched up the Guass for a UAC/20 and had no problem hurting Marauders and getting kill shots.

It's a shame cause I really like my HBK-4SP and my other SRM carrying mechs. Just wish the SRM's did a little more damage. My next test will be using my HBK-4G and 4P to see how they do against Marauders.

It's problematic with srms just like with any other wepon. Mechs with small number of hardpoints will find it underwhelmig so conclusion > boost srm dmg/rof whatever but then you will find stalker 5m with 5 artemis srm6's and it will one shot you. I thought hbk's srm rof quirk was good enough to compensate for lack of missile hardpoints but well... burst dmg > dps.

Also depends on MAD's build. Some people boat lasers like on everything else (how can they not be bored of it already... boating lazors on every mech) and mad with 2-3 lpl and 2-3 mlas is just too much vomit for HBK to handle. I'd have bigger problems with your HBK cause I'm not boating lasers... I have 2 ppcs, 2 mlas and 2 ac5 on my mad-3r right now. In the brawl it's 2 mlas and 2 ac5s so... I think your hbk could be a problem for me in cqc.

[Moebius Pi]

SRM hitreg has been garbage for a while. A long while. I'd never, ever use their use as a measurement of how readily a mech tanks damage; even when they look like they all hit one area, a large chunk of the time they just don't register the full salvos damage. Some days they seem to work as intended, others... may as well be using a MG. It's even noticeable on the old Huggins, though it seems to go sour with larger volleys/srm amounts being fired.

At least it's easier to land them now with the travel time boost, but this is nothing new. I know if they were working properly a lot of mech loadouts would be far, -far- more deadly given their alphas.

Old problem sadly. Also; the Pult is notoriously oversized as many have said, as are quite a few older mechs. Stop using a top down comparison and find a side profile; the badonkadonk on the MAD is ridiculously big, you can easily get the side by side comparison vid from the countdown days and see it vs a Timberwolf (take off the missile racks on a timber and it's about as tall regardless while still far longer btw).

There's a reason why they drop Side Torsos (even twisting) like they were held on with velcro; it's more of a mini-Stalker than anything else.

[JSmith7784]

I did mean by my title that the "time to kill" seems very high for a Marauder. I have seen them peek around a corner, get hammered by 3 enemy mechs and slowly back out without even having1 stripped armor section. In my Assaults that wouldn't be possible. I know in my Dire/Atlas/Battlemaster/Warhawk if I try that I'll be lucky to not lose a torso or arm or even die before I can back away. I've been seeing this a lot since I changed my tactics and have been following friendly Marauders during a match. Been using them like walking shields and once the shooting starts I peek around them and fire away. They can take tons of punishment and hardly blink. Just doesn't seem right for a heavy mech.

[Pr8Dator]

Well, the Marauders does have as much armor as some assault mechs and I have the number to prove it... I have 460 armor on my twin AC20 Warhawk and I have 462 armor on my current fav mech, a Marauder running with 62.8 firepower, which is the firepower of some of my assault mechs but running much faster at 80kph and with a MUCH MUCH smaller profile! Basically a jumping assault mech with the size of a medium mech! I really couldn't feel what the MAD is good for on my first day with it but now I know... it is a born brawler!