10 replies to this topic

[Aligertor]

The Tykayyid event is going on right now.

You guys claim to try balancing the game but the numbers on the event page currently show 90% winrate clans.

Im not sure how u think u can balance normal FW and these counterattacks in the same time but the problem i feel IS has right now is.
That its only doing counterattacks,
It feels like about 75% are counterattacks.


There is a game mode, where a supirior force ahs to crack a weaker force in a sitation where the weaker force has some defenders advantages. To name a few:
- shorter reinforcemant ways
- can choose where to take the fight
- can fight from spawn point with dropship cover in some maps

I understand that u can try to balance this somehow.

Here is my question:
how can u switch sides and make the weaker force attack the stronger having defenders advantage and claim u can balance this at the same time?


Its even more redicolous - the counter attack mode seems harder to me since u have to kill more enemys but only the objective.
There is not even a way force a fight once claners have more kills.
Which allows them (and it partialy happens) just turtle on their spawnpoint and get a even bigger defenders advantage.


Plz guys ask ur devs to run some querys on ur database - im sure the numbers will show something like:
counterattack: 90% winrate clans
defense: 65% winrate clans

imho tukayyid snowballs into a game realy fast that IS only plays because u feed them mc.

[Wintersdark]

I call BS.



QQ moar.

[Juodas Varnas]

Wintersdark, on 05 December 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

I call BS.



QQ moar.

Not sure if showing that Clans are still winning or that the Top Clan has more than twice the score of the Top IS faction.

[Valar13]

Wintersdark, on 05 December 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

I call BS.



QQ moar.

What I would like to see more than anything in Phase 3 is limitations on the ability of competitive teams to stack things in their favor by dogpiling one or two factions on the same side.

A large part of MWO's competitive community has made it clear they in no way desire a challenge or even a legitimate win that comes with the possibility of a hard-fought loss, just a win by default because wins are better stat padding, whether any challenge or skill was actually involved or not.

Edited by Valar13, 05 December 2015 - 12:47 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Juodas Varnas, on 05 December 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

Not sure if showing that Clans are still winning or that the Top Clan has more than twice the score of the Top IS faction.

Aligertor, on 05 December 2015 - 04:25 AM, said:

Plz guys ask ur devs to run some querys on ur database - im sure the numbers will show something like:
counterattack: 90% winrate clans
defense: 65% winrate clans

Yes, clans were currently winning, but by a very narrow margin. 55% is hardly and extreme disparity.

[Wintersdark]

Valar13, on 05 December 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

What I would like to see more than anything in Phase 3 is limitations on the ability of competitive teams to stack things in their favor by dogpiling one or two factions on the same side.

A large part of MWO's competitive community has made it clear they in no way desire a challenge or even a legitimate win that comes with the possibility of a hard-fought loss, just a win by default because wins are better stat padding, whether any challenge or skill was actually involved or not.

Yeah, I can't argue that.

However, the reality is that in an event where scoring is involved in the reward scheme, people are going to do what they can to win (and thus score better > get moar prizes). I honestly don't see what PGI can do about this.

Big groups are generally sincerely interested in getting challenging matches, it's just unfair to use an event like this to try to disprove it. They're not looking for challenging matches now, they're looking to win as many as they can because that's how you win the event.

Play during an event with rewards != regular play.

[MechWarrior849305]

So, like TS.
You say: "Why is it so that clanners have to bar their corpses thru defences/turrets/incoming IS fire to win, and after IS has to bar their corpses thru incoming Clan fire without any defences just to win? That fuwking unfair for IS!!!!1111"
What a BS

Don't want to play Counter attack - defend better.

Edited by DuoAngel, 06 December 2015 - 10:51 AM.

[Goober goos]

To the complainers, couple of details here

1. PGI never offered a chance to pick where those under contract would change to. Most organized groups would have switched looking for better fights.

2. The scores are misleading 6 IS groups vs 4 Clans....

Actual totals are: IS 27444 and 36611 at the time of this post. IS was losing because of a lack of cohesion and the fact majority competitive groups were locked into Clan.

3. Q times and waits are a problem with how PGI set up the limitations. They should have set up multiple planet zones queable at once. Use the average of all 6 to determine who wins the planet.

[NickTheHalfling]

To boot, counterattack is completely broken.

If the attackers destroy Omega and end the game with a tie (equal kills on both sides), the defenders still win! Which is utter trash, because once the defenders get the kill lead, they just sit back in their spawn and talk **** for the rest of the match. Please do something to fix the sitting in spawn, fix the gamemode, or just remove it altogether.

[Yankee Kitsune]

Winter

Wintersdark, on 05 December 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

I call BS.



QQ moar.

You know that number has been going up and down all weekend, right? Highest I've seen it is upper 70% for Clans, while squad mates have seen it higher. Best IS has done was get the attacker win percentage down to around 45% earlier tonight, but when I left it was back up into the 60s.

The problem is with Defense all the attacker has to do is kill the gens. We were up over 12 kills but lost due to a light rush that managed to finish off Omega. In multiple Counterattacks as soon as the Clanners got up they hid in their drop zone. When their Dropships would have been MVP of the match there's a problem...

I would suggest removing the kill count requirement entirely from Counter Attack. Instead when Omega goes down pop up a capture zone with a long capture time near by it. Defender still has an advantage as they can reinforce quicker, but at least neither side can now go hide under their Leopard's skirts anymore as soon as they've got a lead.

[Aligertor]

i have to admid that my original post was very emotional.

still i think i dont have to be asshamed of it. At the point in time i wrote it clans hat 90% of the terretories.
i spend a day playing about 8 counterattacks winning none of them.
after tukayyid i didnt play cw at all so far becaus this was just frustrating.
so this is true and honest feedback for pgi.

wheather or not somebody else believes that my guessed numbers are ok or not doesnt matter. pgi guys can check their db, as mentioned in the original post. if im wrong, so be it.
(would like to have feedback here from pgi in some way to be honest)


Still a carefull reader (i assume professional game developers will read feedback carefully) could have identified 3 problems, even so my solution suggestion was not the best.

1) counter attack game rules support lame and frustrating palystyle from clan defenders
2) when on the loosing side it tends to make following games even harder
3) the general balancing problem of attack and counterattck mode


once having done this there are a lot of things that can be done against them

- once realized that 3) a gerneral balancing of the gamemodes with equal forces for each side on both gamemodes is not possible (nobody was able to prove me wrong on this) u have a lot of options for 1) rules enforcing frustration.
so changing the game rules to a less frustrating setup and trying to balance differetnly would be my first step to make people keep playing.

- 2) might be ignored imho since it was only temporarily an issue and doesnt happen frequently in normal cw
there might be options to enforce gamemodes in a way that the currently winning faction has to play the harder side instead of making the loosers playing games were its even harder to win.
a creative person might figure out a way to make the loosing faction play more defence games.

- also since pgi already has a balancing tool n place which they used to make the numbers turn to somewhat normal after my post. its adjusting the dropweight of the factions im talking about. they rose it from 240t to 250t for IS the day after my post (which explains the different perception shown in a lot of post here btw)
it seems possible to me to just have different limitations on different gamemodes.
like 240t IS defence - 260t IS counter attack.
this might be a way to work arround the unsolvable problem 3)


im sure somebody that tries to find solutions on a professional level might find even more options to encounter these problems with realtively low investment needed for the changes.