48 replies to this topic

[Monkey Lover]

Mister D, on 06 December 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

well duh.

Is now has cooler running lasers.
Is now has a huge edge with ballistics, including Gauss.
Is has many mechs that can outrange Clan lasers.
Is has a crapload more hitpoints on structure quirked mechs.
ECM is nerfed hard, so LRM's are much more effective + Quirked like mad.

The tables have turned.

From what i can tell IS doesnt use the good mechs that can match the clans like 95% of the time. Only time you see it happen is with real teams. On the flip side i see clan pugs using most of the best Clan mechs. So in the end Clans will win.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 06 December 2015 - 10:21 PM.

[-Vompo-]

Xoco, on 06 December 2015 - 09:46 PM, said:

The game is hell bent on giving premades advantage by putting them against PUG.

You do realise it is a team game, right? How can it be wrong that a team has advantage over bunch of guys who all play solo and do what ever once the game starts?

[Lily from animove]

El Bandito, on 06 December 2015 - 05:10 PM, said:

Yep, the event can change within moment's notice--especially towards the end. I must say, it would make PGI look bad if IS still lost after being boosted to 250 tons of drop deck.

why does PGI look bad when the Is is just losing for havign more pugs?

Cylian, on 06 December 2015 - 10:11 PM, said:

Considering that the event ends at the european prime time on a work day, I'd say it's going to be close.
So far it's been in favour for the IS around that time, and swinging towards the clans later on.

this shortly before EU primetime the IS seems to be stronger, the event will end at around the time where things are very close.

this ending will be all about which side gets more premades into the last 63 drops and which premade performs better vs the other premade.

[Archie4Strings]

i think the balance is fine. Its moving between 45 - 60 which seems to be fair. I guess the mainpoint is, and that is what different people already said here, the communication between random groups.
As i read in another thread, it seems as if the Clans generally communicate more and better than most of the IS-players. Why? I dont know...

Maybe cause Clanmechs are much more expensive than an IS Mech of the same size, which brings casual players more to the IS than to the Clans. And Casual Players probably care less about any event (especially when they dont know the lore?).

So, thats my 2 Cents to the topic. But it includes a lot of "ifs", "coulds" and "i dont know whys"...

[Haike]

The major point here is that currently balanced is done around quirks. You need to bring those quirks to bear to compete against clans, as most clans run the same deck because WE HAVE NO OTHER OPTIONS.

Thus we will bring the normal TBR/EBJ/HBR/ACH/SCR combos because that all that we have.

Now if IS all runs their uber quirks mech, clans pretty much have no chance, with how much more beefy IS mechs are nowadays.
The other day, my unit dropped against NS. They steamrolled us with a wall of steel. The first wave broke our defense 12-1 with zeus/banshees/battlemasters/stalkers, and reinforced with TDRs/BJs once their first wave had like 30kills to 12. It was such a trashing when we couldnt take their mechs down fast enough and their structure buffs + quirked weaponry match/outmatch our EXTREMELY HOT weaponry. It wasn't amusing

Whoever thinks Clans are OP needs their brain checked. IS with uber quirks and structure buffs are pretty insane right now.

Requesting more clan mechs for variety please!

Edited by Haike, 07 December 2015 - 02:40 AM.

[DiGCliff]

more clan mechs for variety would be great! but as far as qurks go i mean i play inersphere mostly and i dont notice my clan teamates in a quickplay game dieing before i do in comparable mechs some times they do better then me. its all up to the pilot. also if your running hot take of a laser, use chain fire. it might lower your alpha but it will keep you shooting longer.

Edited by DiGCliff, 07 December 2015 - 02:47 AM.

[Haike]

All clan laser vomit builds allow for only 2-3 alphas before overheating. That is inherent from clan laser higher heat requirements, and reduced overall heat capacity for clans from the newest patch. You cannot avoid it.

Suggestion of chain fire is appreciated, but as all good players know, burst damage is king in PVP. We should try to take down as many enemy mechs, as soon as possible, and the way to do it is through alphas(burst damage)

If you do try to chain fire, those IS mechs will be in your face with their cooler weaponry and outdps-ing you anyway and you cannot outlast their newly gained structural buffs. I standby my previous statement of IS new strategy "Wall of Steel" is pretty darn strong, and there's nothing much Clans can do about it.

Maybe we should bring Direwolfs into Clan dropdecks instead of the Heavy-centric clan dropdecks. But like i said, lack of variety and viable backup makes it quite hard for clans to run such drop decks.

[El Bandito]

Haike, on 07 December 2015 - 02:39 AM, said:

The major point here is that currently balanced is done around quirks. You need to bring those quirks to bear to compete against clans, as most clans run the same deck because WE HAVE NO OTHER OPTIONS.

Thus we will bring the normal TBR/EBJ/HBR/ACH/SCR combos because that all that we have.

That's a misconception. Clans do have other options. Less effective options, not-recommended options, but still you have options. Heck, a Nova can brawl objectively better than a Crow, and an Adder can objectively do long range support better than a Cheetah. People just prefer to be meta-sheep cause it brings results.

It is the same as IS--bring an optimized deck with heavy quirks, or less optimized deck with less quirks. Either way, both sides have options.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 December 2015 - 03:23 AM.

[Dino Might]

Haike, on 07 December 2015 - 03:01 AM, said:

All clan laser vomit builds allow for only 2-3 alphas before overheating. That is inherent from clan laser higher heat requirements, and reduced overall heat capacity for clans from the newest patch. You cannot avoid it.

Suggestion of chain fire is appreciated, but as all good players know, burst damage is king in PVP. We should try to take down as many enemy mechs, as soon as possible, and the way to do it is through alphas(burst damage)

If you do try to chain fire, those IS mechs will be in your face with their cooler weaponry and outdps-ing you anyway and you cannot outlast their newly gained structural buffs. I standby my previous statement of IS new strategy "Wall of Steel" is pretty darn strong, and there's nothing much Clans can do about it.

Maybe we should bring Direwolfs into Clan dropdecks instead of the Heavy-centric clan dropdecks. But like i said, lack of variety and viable backup makes it quite hard for clans to run such drop decks.

Go play some of those uber-quirked IS mechs, please. Your nemesis, the BJ-1X gets 2-3 alphas before shutdown. It is almost as durable as a Stormcrow, but still not there (at -10 tons I wouldn't expect it to be fully on par). It runs slower (for the damage optimized build) and has worse hitboxes. It has a shorter effective range for its weapons, and while it's lasers burn for a shorter time, you still have (unquirked) more damage per burn time (remember, this metric is what is important), and with quirks roughly the same damage per burn time - so the lasers are equal except for range (heat is roughly the same because of clan ability to pack way more heat sinks, especially with engine w/ 10 true dubs). They seem pretty darn balanced to me at the moment. I still give the Stormcrow the edge, but at least it's more a fight of who is the better pilot in the better position now.

Edited by Dino Might, 07 December 2015 - 03:22 AM.

[sycocys]

Tarogato, on 06 December 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

Only way IS can win is if all our solo pugs quit playing. Then we might win.

Unfortunately this is actually true.

Clan is going to take the event simply because attack side of CW is far easier to complete for wins, and it ends during off peak NA while the majority of the player base is occupied with work.

[Dino Might]

sycocys, on 07 December 2015 - 03:21 AM, said:

Unfortunately this is actually true.

Clan is going to take the event simply because attack side of CW is far easier to complete for wins, and it ends during off peak NA while the majority of the player base is occupied with work.

Sure, but who cares? I want everyone to have fun playing, and whether it means we win or lose, I'll not blame a dang thing on the players on our side. Some of them are saddling up with IS trials, and that takes some cajones. I like it, and I hope they get their points. Anyone who wants to exclude others because they don't meet some nebulous metric of performance, I say to them, "good day to you, now begone."

Note: not saying you are wanting to exclude people - I understand it was just an observation, but I have heard a great many that argue for just that. While we may lose because we have more players with less experience and combat effective mechs, that doesn't mean I don't want them on my team. I'll take them any day of the week over those who whine and moan about not winning every match because their advantages are being stripped.

[sycocys]

I don't want to exclude them from the event at all. But in terms of the IS having any shot at winning the event, the pugs unfortunately can't be involved in the last 8 hours or so. They refuse to coordinate or bring competitive decks, and the last 8 hours is win farming so they have no chance at all.

And it's just stupid to have a world wide event where one "side" wins the event and requires competition down to the end, end during the least populated hours of the game.

[Nightshade24]

Mister D, on 06 December 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

well duh.

Is now has cooler running lasers.
Is now has a huge edge with ballistics, including Gauss.
Is has many mechs that can outrange Clan lasers.
Is has a crapload more hitpoints on structure quirked mechs.
ECM is nerfed hard, so LRM's are much more effective + Quirked like mad.

The tables have turned.

Don't forget that our Double heatsinks have half of their function thinking like they are very minor upgraded Single Heatsinks now. (heat capacity).

[Lily from animove]

sycocys, on 07 December 2015 - 03:21 AM, said:

Unfortunately this is actually true.

Clan is going to take the event simply because attack side of CW is far easier to complete for wins, and it ends during off peak NA while the majority of the player base is occupied with work.

yeah a bit bad for NA, yet I think PGI has simply chosen the daytime where the general player peak is the highest.

http://store.steampo...stats/?l=german

Well MWO isn't steam but I doubt the average player activity distribtes much different from this. I guess thats why the initial end of the event was supposed to be on sunday, to allow NA's to participate when most may not have to work. But due to people requesting it, PGI extended it.

Nightshade24, on 07 December 2015 - 03:53 AM, said:

Don't forget that our Double heatsinks have half of their function thinking like they are very minor upgraded Single Heatsinks now. (heat capacity).

The heatsink change at all was not too bad, yes it decreased the heatreshold and spammability of alphas. Yet as long as TBR cna vomit its meta LPL 4CERML 2x it's kinda fine and hardly changing that much. On the other side we got better cooling, especially on mechs with a lot external heatsinks you definately feel this improvement.

Edited by Lily from animove, 07 December 2015 - 04:02 AM.

[Vxheous]

Haike, on 07 December 2015 - 03:01 AM, said:

All clan laser vomit builds allow for only 2-3 alphas before overheating. That is inherent from clan laser higher heat requirements, and reduced overall heat capacity for clans from the newest patch. You cannot avoid it.

Suggestion of chain fire is appreciated, but as all good players know, burst damage is king in PVP. We should try to take down as many enemy mechs, as soon as possible, and the way to do it is through alphas(burst damage)

If you do try to chain fire, those IS mechs will be in your face with their cooler weaponry and outdps-ing you anyway and you cannot outlast their newly gained structural buffs. I standby my previous statement of IS new strategy "Wall of Steel" is pretty darn strong, and there's nothing much Clans can do about it.

Maybe we should bring Direwolfs into Clan dropdecks instead of the Heavy-centric clan dropdecks. But like i said, lack of variety and viable backup makes it quite hard for clans to run such drop decks.

If you tweak the clan laser vomit build slightly (instead of 2LPL + 4/5ERML, bring 2LPL+3ERML) you can actually alpha ~4 times. 47 damage alpha x 4 vs 55 alpha x 3. I have not run the numbers on it, but anecdotally, I feel like the overall dps is higher. Either way, pre-nerf, I was doing 2k-3.5k damage/game of CW (using Gauss-vomit), and post-patch, I am still doing 2k-3.5k damage/game of CW (using modified laser-vomit).

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 07 December 2015 - 04:08 AM.

[Scanz]

тnerf is armor quirks ! lololo

[Lugh]

Kraftwerkedup, on 06 December 2015 - 06:10 PM, said:

Clan Mentality:

Clans have 80% of the zones, its balanced.

IS has 53% of the zones, its an IS roll, omfg, I paid so much money, #pgipleasefix.

Good. Lord.

When the clans owned 80% of the zones, they used the one constant they are forced to, unified speeds of 90kph to reach GENs and Omega easily, regardless of casualties.

The PGI game design allows that to be called a 'Win' even if the IS still had 32 of their 48 alive and the Clan less than 12...

That's just wrong. From a strategic perspective, the IS appears to win more often than the clans, as when they win their losses are fewer, and when they 'lose' their losses are also fewer.

[Dino Might]

How many clanners are objective rushing? I haven't had one game in which the enemy team went for the o-gens until all defenders were destroyed.

[Lynx7725]

Dino Might, on 07 December 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:

How many clanners are objective rushing? I haven't had one game in which the enemy team went for the o-gens until all defenders were destroyed.

Well, I just had one CW game where the enemy Clan team rushed. It was a 12-man, vs. randoms. We did hold their initial juggernaut push and second attack off pretty decently (at a good trade), but the last push, well we couldn't stop it.

[Johnny Z]

Seems like this event is also a test to see how the currently unfinished maps used on the galaxy map do with the updated balance. Like do the gens need more or less health etc.