43 replies to this topic

[Biclor Moban]

I don't have video evidence I am fine with those who don't want to believe me. Mostly wanted to put it out there, get it off my chest. That said I don't have video evidence because after an update to my recorder it started crashing MWO so I disabled it. Maybe some time I will reenable it.
In the mean time a funny thing has begun to happen on the PPC front I am sure you have all noticed. PPC ER or otherwise do 0 damage when they hit you. I assume it has to do with that less damage if untargeted mechanic.
Me standing on a hill in Alpine and a King Crab on another not sure that range. At first I wasn't facing his direction and got hit by a volley of PPC. Was alarmed at first and returned fire. I then noticed I received no damage. For giggles I just stood there to see what would happen occasionally firing back at him. He must have hit me 20 times, I stayed at 100%. My shots in him 4x ERLL would register a tiny bit of damage at least I think I got him down to 98% in that same period but probably made half the shots. Good news is once my guys finally got to him he was already hot from firing at me and probably very frustrated. They took him out in shirt order. So I guess other people using PPC's is good news for me! While this isn't an isolated incident it is the most cut and dry.

[DrxAbstract]

Biclor Moban, on 07 December 2015 - 01:20 AM, said:

Okay,

Over the last few months (I have been playing sincee 2013) I have had occasion to question wether hit reg works.

I will give 2 examples of reg issues or some messed up thing.

1.
August.
I am at the Bog a disconnected Firestarter comes into view I am at a range of 500-600m. I am running ERPPCs on a Griffin. I fire both his left arm comes off. I adjust my aim and fire again CT lights up.
I fire 2 more simultanious shots. I am over heatin so I wait. I them begin to fire one right after the other 4 more shots I am to hot so I wait and on the 1st shot of that volley the Firestarter goes down. The second shot of that volley does nothing.
Lets count
2 shots to the left arm.
11 shots to the CT.
Then it went down.
I was so confused. I left and went to the training grounds. Shot every Mech there from that same range and angle. I killed a Jenner with 2 shots and an Atlas with 11. How is it that a Firestarter could take 11 shots to the CT.

2.
Tonight.
I am running a 4 ERLL Hunch 4P paired so they fire 2 then 2 with chain fire. I am at River City. I spot a Blackjack in the water near the Citadel he's firing at one of my guys. He remains between 480 and 550 meters range away. I have pressed R ad he is targeted. I use my advaced zoom and squeeze the trigger on my 4 ERLL. He takes all 4 to the CT it flashes. He doesn't move at all. I fire again 4 ERLL hit his center torso it flashes. He decides then to move about 100 meters to the left I reposition as well. He starts to fire upon My teammate again (also in the water). I fire all 4 ERLL again hitting the CT. then he takes aim at me what follows is 2 more clean shotsto his CT and some very random hits to the rest of him. He then retreats with a yellow CT seriously just yellow. He runs out on the pier by the fuel tanks and eventually he's at the end of the pier facing away from me. I get a lock on him for 1 4 shot volley to his back. He moves forward behind a rock for a moment. I think he is going to take off. I wait for him to come out the other side. He doesn't, he reappears now facing me. I don't have him targeted at first but let another 4 ERLL fly while I wait we are at about 600 range now. The shot was a bit sloppy but his it looks to drag from his CT to his LT to his LA. My target recticule comes up (one of my spiders is in sensor range) and I fire all 4 again and as I am doing that a Mad Cat backs from the base of the wall and kills me.cutting my volley about 1/2 way throught the second 2 firing.

How I count it thats 16 cleans shots to the CT and probably 6 in upper body area and he didn't go down. I made maybe 10 other shots but couldn't verify they hit or not so we aren't counting them.

I generally average about 450 Pts damage a game in this mech and it's not unheard of for me to do over 800 dmg.

How could a Blackjack survive that?
This does seem to be a reoccurant thing with Blackjacks.

3 times today I have gone Mono y mono with a Stormcrow or a Madcat at these ranges and cored them both......
Is it generally accepted that a SCR or TB is easier to core than a Blackjack?

Please help.

1. Did nobody catch the 'Disconnected' portion of this? It had absolutely nothing to do with imaginary Firestarter hitbox issues (Because those were fixed ages ago) and everything to do with the fact it was a DC'd Mech, which every one of the 'vets' in this thread should know have issues registering damage regardless of the chassis.

2. Your aim is not as steady as you think, combined with the inherent flaw of Lasers in MWO that prevents damage registration when switching rapidly between section hitboxes. It's not a Blackjack thing. It's a, relatively speaking, tiny chassis thing that only compounds itself the further away they are.

Coring out an SCR or TBR is easier to do than a BJ because they have respectively larger CTs that can be hit more cleanly from an angle, not to mention the BJ's got a bit better maneuverability. Sum all this up to you just not getting how things work; correlations, causalities... A broader understanding of the complex interactions taking place in juxtapose to your evidently simple "I pull trigger, stuff should die." perspective.

[xXBagheeraXx]

PPCS generally have horrible hitreg issues, and why they are not used often. Ive hit and been repeatedly hit by PPCS and have had little to no damage done to my armor. Games where ive fired dozens of ERPPCS in my warhawk well within range and SUCK them only to finish the game with a paltry 200 damage or so....

[Biclor Moban]

DrxAbstract, on 07 February 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

1. Did nobody catch the 'Disconnected' portion of this? It had absolutely nothing to do with imaginary Firestarter hitbox issues (Because those were fixed ages ago) and everything to do with the fact it was a DC'd Mech, which every one of the 'vets' in this thread should know have issues registering damage regardless of the chassis.

2. Your aim is not as steady as you think, combined with the inherent flaw of Lasers in MWO that prevents damage registration when switching rapidly between section hitboxes. It's not a Blackjack thing. It's a, relatively speaking, tiny chassis thing that only compounds itself the further away they are.

Coring out an SCR or TBR is easier to do than a BJ because they have respectively larger CTs that can be hit more cleanly from an angle, not to mention the BJ's got a bit better maneuverability. Sum all this up to you just not getting how things work; correlations, causalities... A broader understanding of the complex interactions taking place in juxtapose to your evidently simple "I pull trigger, stuff should die." perspective.

It shouldn't matter if the Firestarter was disconnected or not, being disconnected shouldn't turn a Firestarter into an Atlas.

As far as the Blackjack. Yes it's small but it's the only Mech I consistently have issues with killing. You will also note I mentioned he was stationary in many of my hits. I was firing 4ERLL almost simultaneously and only the CT would flash. I am certainly not the best pilot out there but my gunnery is above average. You will just have to take my word for it...or not whatever.

PS
One added note. My perspective is. If I pull the trigger at the right time, my weapon shoots when I expect it to (in this case) a beam leaves my mech arrives at another mech. When it arrives at the other mech it registers a hit in that location if it does register a hit (for the full duration) I expect for the full amount of damage to be done at said range to be transferred to that mech. Now let's say I initially hit the CT with a ERLL and I have a duration of 9 units(dmg) if 6 units of time are spent on the CT and 3 on the LT I expect it to still total 9 at the end. I don't expect it to register 4 and 1 as you seem to suggest might happen. If it does work this way it can be exploited and therefore it's a bug. Generally bugs should be fixed. If i miss or come off the target I don't expected to get all the points. I do however expect the o+ to stop glowing red indicating I am off target.

Edited by Biclor Moban, 07 February 2016 - 10:36 AM.

[Otto Cannon]

PPCs have crappy hitreg. So do disconnected mechs. Blackjacks are unkillable juggernauts.

You're not imagining things, just avoid using PPCs in future and try not to get annoyed by the times when things go wonky and the server hates you.

[Biclor Moban]

I am over it.

What does annoy me is when people come in and say. " this is how it is and how it's always been , deal with it" These are the people that where fine with slavery or monarchys or any other obviously difficient system "this is how it is and how it always has been, deal with it"........

Um.. Otto Cannon I did just now notice your from the UK . From what understand your country is doing monarchy the right way. What I mean by that is It makes your country classy without being repressive. I mean no more repressive than the USA. My brother moved there and I don't know that he will ever come back to the US.

Edited by Biclor Moban, 07 February 2016 - 10:47 AM.

[Biclor Moban]

One other question I do have is. I currently am on a low spec system. I am waiting to sell my house to get a new rig, my old gaming system died. I am on a laptop now. Has anyone had better overall reg and damage after a hardware upgrade?

Edited by Biclor Moban, 07 February 2016 - 10:28 AM.

[DrxAbstract]

Biclor Moban, on 07 February 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

It shouldn't matter if the Firestarter was disconnected or not, being disconnected shouldn't turn a Firestarter into an Atlas.

Whether it should make a difference or not is irrelevant. The simple fact is that DC'd Mechs commonly have major flaws in damage registration, regardless of what chassis it is.

Quote

As far as the Blackjack. Yes it's small but it's the only Mech I consistently have issues with killing. You will also note I mentioned he was stationary in many of my hits. I was firing 4ERLL almost simultaneously and only the CT would flash. I am certainly not the best pilot out there but my gunnery is above average. You will just have to take my word for it...or not whatever.

Sure, you said he was stationary, but you also just said the side torsos were catching some of it whereas in this post right here you claim to only have been hitting CT. This suggests what you're saying isn't the entire story. Without video to reference, there's no way to make a sure determination. Evidence suggests it's just the physical size of the BJ, distance and rapid movement of the engagement that's the source of your woe.

Quote

PS
One added note. My perspective is. If I pull the trigger at the right time, my weapon shoots when I expect it to (in this case) a beam leaves my mech arrives at another mech. When it arrives at the other mech it registers a hit in that location if it does register a hit (for the full duration) I expect for the full amount of damage to be done at said range to be transferred to that mech. Now let's say I initially hit the CT with a ERLL and I have a duration of 9 units(dmg) if 6 units of time are spent on the CT and 3 on the LT I expect it to still total 9 at the end. I don't expect it to register 4 and 1 as you seem to suggest might happen. If it does work this way it can be exploited and therefore it's a bug. Generally bugs should be fixed. If i miss or come off the target I don't expected to get all the points. I do however expect the o+ to stop glowing red indicating I am off target.

It's a little more complicated than that... And how would you propose they 'fix' it? First, not everything can just be 'fixed', even in the magical world of computers. Secondly, not everything you perceive as a problem really is one. Sure, it kinda sucks that lasers don't always do full damage because of it, but it's not unrealistic and it does help keep Lasers in the demanding yet rewarding section by requiring a steady hand--Point & Click is what ACs are for.

[GrimRiver]

Well there is your issue, the PPC's are bugged with hit reg issues even on a good day.

I used to run 3 PPC's(+other weapons) on my BNC and there was a many of times where I opened up on mediums or heavies only to have the paperdoll of their CT light up then followed up with more shots for a total of 120DMG and they come out with only 0% DMG done to them, so I end up using my 2nd set of weapons just to do the job.

I no longer run PPC's because this kept happening to me.

[Biclor Moban]

DrxAbstract, on 07 February 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

Whether it should make a difference or not is irrelevant. The simple fact is that DC'd Mechs commonly have major flaws in damage registration, regardless of what chassis it is.


Sure, you said he was stationary, but you also just said the side torsos were catching some of it whereas in this post right here you claim to only have been hitting CT. This suggests what you're saying isn't the entire story. Without video to reference, there's no way to make a sure determination. Evidence suggests it's just the physical size of the BJ, distance and rapid movement of the engagement that's the source of your woe.



It's a little more complicated than that... And how would you propose they 'fix' it? First, not everything can just be 'fixed', even in the magical world of computers. Secondly, not everything you perceive as a problem really is one. Sure, it kinda sucks that lasers don't always do full damage because of it, but it's not unrealistic and it does help keep Lasers in the demanding yet rewarding section by requiring a steady hand--Point & Click is what ACs are for.

First, as PGI explains it damage is calculated by them and their server not yours or my computer. Disconnections should make zero diff if that is the case. It would seem like they are not telling us something if it's different when the player is disconnected. Wouldn't it be interesting if some confirmation from my computer allowed full damage to be done and without it only partial damage would be done. How about someone exploits that by a cheat that never confirms disputed damage. I am looking for better more accurate game play not a cheat. My skill or lack there of is my problem not PGI's this isn't about that.

I was speaking about specifically when I was hitting the CT. I did mention hitting both and if I wasn't sure I mentioned that as well. I know we can't analize it, I wish I had the video.(what I did there, did you see it?) I have had many bouts where I felt wronged about damage but that the way it goes and in the heat of battle. These examples were used because of the slow pace there was time for more scrutiny.

Everything can be fixed the will to do it is where it most often fails.

I guess to fix it would be to first take damage done in total then distribute it not add as you go forgetting to carry over some.

I love examples today apparently.
Here it goes. I have one big box divided into four sections. I throw 9 oranges (pts damage) in the left upper section some go in some bounce into the other sections but all stay n the box. 9 oranges in the box.
How it seems to be now. I have drawn a box on the ground and divided it in to four sections I throw all 9 oranges in the upper left corner all land in the upper left corner but some roll out of the box some end up in other sections 5 oranges in the box.

I am not trying to take this too seriously. We all get worked up some times I was just hoping it would improve game play.

Thanks for you input DrxAbstract.

Edited by Biclor Moban, 07 February 2016 - 12:10 PM.

[Davegt27]

if you play enough you see all kinds of crazy wired stuff

[Cabusha]

Was rocking my MAD-BH last night, and put a full 6xML, 1xAC20 into a BLR's RR. I got the red hit indicator on the targeting reticle, but the paper doll never updated with any damage. Twas most disappointing.

That said hit reg has always been a bit flaky in this game since HSR went in. Some days it's rock solid, other days it's invisible armor. And it does go both ways. I don't know how many times I've heard something hit my mech, but nothing registered.

Edited by Cabusha, 07 February 2016 - 01:30 PM.

[Luca M Pryde]

Use pulse lasers. That's how I deal with hitreg issues.

[Troutmonkey]

Not sure if hit reg, missing the shot, or just bad UI feedback bugs that have been around since forever.

Here's a video of the UI bug wheres sometimes the shots don't turn your cursor red / flash the paper doll

[MrMadguy]

I also have noticed some "twist delay" PPC weird behavior recently. I.e. when you need to shoot at moving target - you have to lead it. I twist to lead it and immediately shoot, when crosshair points at right direction. But due to some reason PPC projectiles go to wrong direction - not to where I aim, but to point, where I was aiming second before.

Yeah. PPC was overnerfed during last nerf wave, so it, as long as AC/20 and AC/10, no longer worth using and was literally removed from the game. Not only projectile speed was nerfed, but also projectile size. As you know, PPC has very big projectile size, so it sticks to every wall, it flies by. But since some moment it no longer works with 'Mechs - now it can fly between Spider's ST and arm without hitting anything.

I wish, I could record videos with evidence, but I don't want to ruin my HDD's service life and kill my computer's performance. It's not worth it - it's easier to quit and play better games, then to provide evidence, nobody would care about anyway. Devs care only about selling more 'Mechs to kids with deep wallets.

[Tarogato]

Stories don't mean anything without video evidence. We don't know how you spread your damage, or the ranges involved, or various other factors. Most of the videos I see people post reveal that hit registration is working properly and that people would rather blame hitreg than accept that their aim isn't as perfect as they thought it was or that a mech has more hitpoints than they thought it did.

So video, please. Shadowplay is your friend.

[MrMadguy]

Tarogato, on 08 February 2016 - 12:32 AM, said:

Stories don't mean anything without video evidence. We don't know how you spread your damage, or the ranges involved, or various other factors. Most of the videos I see people post reveal that hit registration is working properly and that people would rather blame hitreg than accept that their aim isn't as perfect as they thought it was or that a mech has more hitpoints than they thought it did.

So video, please. Shadowplay is your friend.

My HDD from old computer lived for 10 years. Half of that time it wasn't being loaded. But at my old job I saw, how HDDs were dying one after another within several months due to using remote OS image recovering way too often (once a week). So no. Devs will ignore it and pretend, that everything is perfect, as always. Admitting problems = hurting $$$ income. If kids pay anyway, why bother about putting effort into fixing something?

Edited by MrMadguy, 08 February 2016 - 12:59 AM.

[Tarogato]

MrMadguy, on 08 February 2016 - 12:58 AM, said:

My HDD from old computer lived for 10 years. Half of that time it wasn't being loaded. But at my old job I saw, how HDDs were dying one after another within several months due to using remote OS image recovering way too often (once a week). So no. Devs will ignore it and pretend, that everything is perfect, as always. Admitting problems = hurting $$$ income. If kids pay anyway, why bother about putting effort into fixing something?

You're concerned that ShadowPlay would prematurely burn out your harddrive...






... I get it. It's a real thing. But you must be using the same HDD since Win98 if you're actually that concerned about it. They're not that expensive these days, unless you're running enterprise rated hardware on your gaming system. =P

Edited by Tarogato, 08 February 2016 - 01:33 AM.

[Cabusha]

MrMadguy, on 08 February 2016 - 12:25 AM, said:

As you know, PPC has very big projectile size, so it sticks to every wall, it flies by. But since some moment it no longer works with 'Mechs - now it can fly between Spider's ST and arm without hitting anything.

The visual for the PPC has never matched the actual hitbox. The big ball (visual) will hit the target, but the actual hit location (a tiny sphere/dot) will miss the target. It's very misleading and has been a known issue since CB. But has never been fixed.

[MrMadguy]

Cabusha, on 08 February 2016 - 01:37 AM, said:

The visual for the PPC has never matched the actual hitbox. The big ball (visual) will hit the target, but the actual hit location (a tiny sphere/dot) will miss the target. It's very misleading and has been a known issue since CB. But has never been fixed.

But, as I said, at the same it hits walls without any problems.