42 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

El Bandito, on 07 December 2015 - 05:38 AM, said:

With almost no one utilizing the Executioner's jump jets in the matches, no wonder people think the mech is not good. If PGI actually buffs back the hoverjets, then the Executioner can be more viable than before. Similar deal with the Summoner.

At least give them 2x JJ quirks.

That would be pretty great, I actually try to use the JJs often times but honestly the only map they can get you ontop of *useful* things is mining collective.

Kshat, on 07 December 2015 - 05:46 AM, said:

The main problem of the Executioner is that it perfectly fits in a niche which is on most maps and in most situations almost nonexistent.
And nobody missed a mech to fill this niche - nevertheless, the Executioner does this job perfectly.

It's huge, it got loads of podspace occupied by MASC and JJ - therefore not enough room for true ballistic loadouts. And Laservomit gets hot.
So you got a highly mobile Laservomit-poke-mech - a TBR is more mobile, more agile, way les bulky, and not at all worse in the offensive department.
And as a swift assault brawler - that niche is where the Gargoyle is waiting for someone to play with him.

In short: the Exe is not bad. But there is no real reason why you should use him.

I'm not quite sure of the niche you are speaking of though. Out of all my laser vomit mechs my Executioner runs the coldest due to all the heat sinks it holds while also keeping an alpha over 60. It does lose out on ballistic builds though, but usually thats what people use the Dire Wolf or Warhawk for.

As for being a poke mech, Executioner comes with MASC, it outclasses the Timber Wolf entirely at poking, especially now with the agility buffs and the skill tree nerfs. Last TW that tried to "poke" my Executioner took a full alpha straight to the CT.

Also just going to throw out there that the Executioner has much more going for it than the Gargoyle, more firepower, more maneuverability due to masc, JJs, more armor, high torso mounts. Only thing the Gargoyle beats it in is pure top speed.

I find the Executioner to play like a really tanky Ebon Jaguar with lower arm mounts that also get actuators. I actually run the same weapons loadout on both, but the Exe gets more heat sinks. I just run 2 LPLs in the high mounts in the torso and then 6 spls in the arms (for ebj 2 of them go in torsos and 4 in arms). Pokes stuff to death and any light mech that thought they could have an easy kill vs an assault gets their face melted off by the SPLs on a mech that turns faster than they do when masc is active.

honestly though, if MASC wasn't locked I'd still keep it in the mech at all times, else you are just running a heavier Warhawk.

[Koniks]

In general, with PGI's implementation, taking a bigger engine is better than taking MASC. Would take up fewer crit slots, give the option of more engine DHS slots, and give you agility bonuses beyond accel/decel. Especially important with the skill tree changes.

[Davegt27]

Kristian Radoulov, on 07 December 2015 - 05:59 AM, said:

If you think the EXE isn't a great mech, YOU'RE the problem, not the mech. That thing is the king of public que. Peace underhive.

Pow!

Thanks PGI we have a new term to imbrace-- underhive lol
So speaking as a underhive I love this Mech the problem is I am not sure why
I Spend 17 million C-bills on a Mech and what do I do, I put C-ERSL on the thing.

The first three days I had it it was great then the nerf bat hit and then the thing rotated like the Zeppelin lol
This thing was so slow I would laugh at my monitor saying omg is this thing slow, I mean I thought iI was going back in time slow lol

If your poking with an EXE your crazy, but I am the guy telling his team mates not to crest a hill
(But mom why not--because you will get your face shot off)

let any Mech come around the corner into an EXE its a good chance they will go down
Its a great Mech but suffers like a lot of assaults in MWO lack of versatility and load outs

Jmtcw
Dave of the underhive lol

[OznerpaG]

my fav mech in MWO - once you get using MASC down to an instinct + with those JJ that thing dances

my build (160 matches)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...da93db868364803

[pwnface]

The EXE is actually a really great poking mech if you utilize the MASC effectively. I think it's incredibly underrated and a lot of pilots just don't know how to use them effectively.

I think the OP's statement about the EXE being able to face up 1v1 a DWF is pretty incorrect though. There is no way you are going to stare down a DWF and win in an EXE. You can definitely poke at the DWF effectively and kill it, just not in a face up battle.

[Gas Guzzler]

pwnface, on 07 December 2015 - 05:33 PM, said:

The EXE is actually a really great poking mech if you utilize the MASC effectively. I think it's incredibly underrated and a lot of pilots just don't know how to use them effectively.

I think the OP's statement about the EXE being able to face up 1v1 a DWF is pretty incorrect though. There is no way you are going to stare down a DWF and win in an EXE. You can definitely poke at the DWF effectively and kill it, just not in a face up battle.

We can probably test this, but honestly, that is how an Executioner would beat a Dire Wolf. You wouldn't run in and try to face tank it and brawl it, you would keep your distance some and poke in and out of cover doing more damage to it than it does to you.

Its kind of like how you 1v1 a Dire Wolf in a Mist Lynx.

[pwnface]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 December 2015 - 05:38 PM, said:

We can probably test this, but honestly, that is how an Executioner would beat a Dire Wolf. You wouldn't run in and try to face tank it and brawl it, you would keep your distance some and poke in and out of cover doing more damage to it than it does to you.

Its kind of like how you 1v1 a Dire Wolf in a Mist Lynx.

It's kind of how you 1v1 a Dire in almost anything besides a big a$$ brawler at close range. You don't trade damage for damage without using cover for mitigation against the biggest, most heavily armed mech in the game.

Edited by pwnface, 07 December 2015 - 05:41 PM.

[Steel Claws]

The Exe is my favorite clan assault mech because it is the most maneuverable. It doesn't have the shear firepower of some of the others, it takes more finesse and skill to do well in. Then again I tend to play a lot of mechs that not many people appreciate. I can't remember the last time I drove a Timberwolf. I have turned some really good games though in the EXE and on a pretty regular basis. Like others have said, you have to know how to use it.

Basically any mech CAN be good as long as you play to it's strengths. In short its more about the pilot than the mech.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

pwnface, on 07 December 2015 - 05:33 PM, said:

The EXE is actually a really great poking mech if you utilize the MASC effectively. I think it's incredibly underrated and a lot of pilots just don't know how to use them effectively.

I think the OP's statement about the EXE being able to face up 1v1 a DWF is pretty incorrect though. There is no way you are going to stare down a DWF and win in an EXE. You can definitely poke at the DWF effectively and kill it, just not in a face up battle.

See heres the thing though. My Executioner build has more DPS than a quad UAC10 Dire Wolf, does its damage in alphas to reduce face time, doesn't ever jam, and can actually spread damage away from its CT. All you have to do is be within range of all your weapons and keep hitting the CT and spreading the damage of all those guns, you can even use your hover jets to get shots to spread to the legs too. The build also comes with enough cooling to be able to do the damage to kill the Dire Wolf before overheating, at least once elited.

See, my statement wasn't just an armchair theory, but my experience in running an Executioner. Last time I ran into a Dire Wolf in the canyon area near Theta on Frozen City we were both at full hp and had no backup, there was no cover to run and hide at so I had no options except to take the beating and try to do my best to win. I won, damage spread all over body which was orange on the CT, one side exposed, arms damaged, and legs yellowed. The Dire could do nothing to shield his CT from me and even if he did all he'd do is be wasting time he could be using to put out damage.

Executioner is underrated even by people who don't underrate it.

[Aresye]

I HATED the EXE when it first came out. Now I feel it's the 2nd best Clan assault.

You have to get your mobility game down though. It's too heavy and not mobile enough to allow for any errors in poking out, so you have to learn when and how much MASC is necessary to minimize your profile, not have a shaky crosshair while firing, and get a full burn with the right arm lasers without taking too much return fire.

Often I find myself forgetting I have both MASC and jump jets when in the middle of a battle. It's another thing to focus on, but you need to always be aware you have both and be using them in combination with each other whenever possible.

Best way I can describe the EXE is you're always walking the razor's edge. It requires focus 100% of the time on what you're doing with MASC, jump jets, and positioning. Make the slightest error and you're eating a ton of return fire, missing your shot, or both.

When successfully treading that fine line however, the mech is absolutely devastating.

[pwnface]

Dakota1000, on 08 December 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

See heres the thing though. My Executioner build has more DPS than a quad UAC10 Dire Wolf, does its damage in alphas to reduce face time, doesn't ever jam, and can actually spread damage away from its CT. All you have to do is be within range of all your weapons and keep hitting the CT and spreading the damage of all those guns, you can even use your hover jets to get shots to spread to the legs too. The build also comes with enough cooling to be able to do the damage to kill the Dire Wolf before overheating, at least once elited.

See, my statement wasn't just an armchair theory, but my experience in running an Executioner. Last time I ran into a Dire Wolf in the canyon area near Theta on Frozen City we were both at full hp and had no backup, there was no cover to run and hide at so I had no options except to take the beating and try to do my best to win. I won, damage spread all over body which was orange on the CT, one side exposed, arms damaged, and legs yellowed. The Dire could do nothing to shield his CT from me and even if he did all he'd do is be wasting time he could be using to put out damage.

Executioner is underrated even by people who don't underrate it.

Please share your amazing Executioner loadout with us then. Also, I run a 3xUAC5 + 2xUAC10 dakka dire typically. It double taps for 70 damage. There aren't a whole lot of builds that can out DPS a dakka dire.

Maybe in your experiences you've been able to 1v1 direwolves but perhaps player skill should be taken into account as well. I mean I've 1v1 a lot of people while I was using really bad builds. One of the major issues that less experienced pilots run into when using a dakka dire in a 1v1 situation is that they spam their UACs nonstop to try to max out the amount of damage that they can do, realistically this often hurts more than it helps. Inexperienced pilots will often jam one or more of their UACs while their target is torso twisting resulting in a ton of damage all over the arms and a terrible damage trade when their opponent faces back up. Saving double taps for when your opponent faces can guarantee 70 damage on your target's torso before they turn away.

Pretty much the only thing I'm worried about on the battlefield in a 1v1 encounter in the open is an Atlas that somehow snuck up to 300m range of me without me seeing it. Then again I've never fought a full brawl Executioner so maybe there is some super awesome build that I don't know about.

Aresye Kerensky, on 08 December 2015 - 02:50 PM, said:

I HATED the EXE when it first came out. Now I feel it's the 2nd best Clan assault.

You have to get your mobility game down though. It's too heavy and not mobile enough to allow for any errors in poking out, so you have to learn when and how much MASC is necessary to minimize your profile, not have a shaky crosshair while firing, and get a full burn with the right arm lasers without taking too much return fire.

Often I find myself forgetting I have both MASC and jump jets when in the middle of a battle. It's another thing to focus on, but you need to always be aware you have both and be using them in combination with each other whenever possible.

Best way I can describe the EXE is you're always walking the razor's edge. It requires focus 100% of the time on what you're doing with MASC, jump jets, and positioning. Make the slightest error and you're eating a ton of return fire, missing your shot, or both.

When successfully treading that fine line however, the mech is absolutely devastating.

I've escaped a swarm of 4 lights ripping me apart on Frozen City Night by using MASC and jump jets to jump out of Jenner Alley to the rest of my team. I barely got away with 40% remaining but for ANY other assault mech it would have been a guaranteed death sentence.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

pwnface, on 08 December 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

Please share your amazing Executioner loadout with us then. Also, I run a 3xUAC5 + 2xUAC10 dakka dire typically. It double taps for 70 damage. There aren't a whole lot of builds that can out DPS a dakka dire.

Maybe in your experiences you've been able to 1v1 direwolves but perhaps player skill should be taken into account as well. I mean I've 1v1 a lot of people while I was using really bad builds. One of the major issues that less experienced pilots run into when using a dakka dire in a 1v1 situation is that they spam their UACs nonstop to try to max out the amount of damage that they can do, realistically this often hurts more than it helps. Inexperienced pilots will often jam one or more of their UACs while their target is torso twisting resulting in a ton of damage all over the arms and a terrible damage trade when their opponent faces back up. Saving double taps for when your opponent faces can guarantee 70 damage on your target's torso before they turn away.

Pretty much the only thing I'm worried about on the battlefield in a 1v1 encounter in the open is an Atlas that somehow snuck up to 300m range of me without me seeing it. Then again I've never fought a full brawl Executioner so maybe there is some super awesome build that I don't know about.



I've escaped a swarm of 4 lights ripping me apart on Frozen City Night by using MASC and jump jets to jump out of Jenner Alley to the rest of my team. I barely got away with 40% remaining but for ANY other assault mech it would have been a guaranteed death sentence.

I run 6SPLS and 2 LPLs, 24 heat sinks. Pokes well with the LPLs, brawls well with the SPLs and can add the LPLs in at close range for some extra damage if you aren't close to overheating.

Pilot skill does account for a whole lot, which is why I gave the stats moreso than just saying I beat a Dire. The DPS output from both mechs is pretty close, at least with the two builds I mentioned, DPS goes to Exe slightly awhile armor goes to Dire, but in a real battle you also have to account for twisting, missing, leading, etc. Dire is like a turret that can't protect its CT, Exe runs at you like a freight train while also being able to spread damage. As for experienced piloting, with all those UACs, their travel time, their shot delay, and possibility to jam on a double tap you get a few issues even with experience, and an experienced brawler can also fake you out by going to turn to take a shot, not taking the shot, and turning back right when you fire then hitting you with a full blast after you hammered his arm.

Also, as for lights, I never have a problem killing those in the Exe, the turn speed with MASC is so high and the arm mounted SPLs ruin their day quick.

What builds do you normally run?


EDIT:

Forgot to mention the Atlases. Those things outclass me in a brawl. They have more firepower per alpha but more heat generation, so that evens out in that department, but they already were 100 tons so they had more armor than me, now with the structure buffs to them I can't seem to take one out before it kills me. They can spread the damage from my lasers by torso twisting unlike a dire, then smack me with over 70 damage all at once (4mls, AC20, 4SRM4s - AS7-S loadout), I beat them in speed, and my LPLs outrange their guns, so I'd have to use that to win, I can't win a brawl at close range unless the pilot is sitting there drinking bottles of glue or the mech was nearly destroyed before I got there.

Edited by Dakota1000, 08 December 2015 - 03:40 PM.

[pwnface]

Dakota1000, on 08 December 2015 - 03:26 PM, said:

I run 6SPLS and 2 LPLs, 24 heat sinks. Pokes well with the LPLs, brawls well with the SPLs and can add the LPLs in at close range for some extra damage if you aren't close to overheating.

Pilot skill does account for a whole lot, which is why I gave the stats moreso than just saying I beat a Dire. The DPS output from both mechs is pretty close, at least with the two builds I mentioned, DPS goes to Exe slightly awhile armor goes to Dire, but in a real battle you also have to account for twisting, missing, leading, etc. Dire is like a turret that can't protect its CT, Exe runs at you like a freight train while also being able to spread damage. As for experienced piloting, with all those UACs, their travel time, their shot delay, and possibility to jam on a double tap you get a few issues even with experience, and an experienced brawler can also fake you out by going to turn to take a shot, not taking the shot, and turning back right when you fire then hitting you with a full blast after you hammered his arm.

Also, as for lights, I never have a problem killing those in the Exe, the turn speed with MASC is so high and the arm mounted SPLs ruin their day quick.

What builds do you normally run?

I think it's plausible for a brawl EXE to beat a DWF if the engagement starts at 300m or less, but closing the distance from 600m+ in the open would heavily favor the DWF. I'd love to test this out sometime though.

I typically run 2xC-LPL + 4xC-ERML on my EXE and have had great success. The build is fantastic for mid/long range poking and MASC allows you to make pretty favorable trades in a normally slow assault. The build does run somewhat hot though, it can be weak against getting pushed aggressively by multiple mechs. Luckily, MASC and jump jets make for a great way to escape and circle away before they get too close.

Another build I've tried is 6xCERML + Gauss. I haven't had as much success with this build though, rarely breaking 1000 damage compared to the pure laser vomit build.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

pwnface, on 08 December 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

I think it's plausible for a brawl EXE to beat a DWF if the engagement starts at 300m or less, but closing the distance from 600m+ in the open would heavily favor the DWF. I'd love to test this out sometime though.

I typically run 2xC-LPL + 4xC-ERML on my EXE and have had great success. The build is fantastic for mid/long range poking and MASC allows you to make pretty favorable trades in a normally slow assault. The build does run somewhat hot though, it can be weak against getting pushed aggressively by multiple mechs. Luckily, MASC and jump jets make for a great way to escape and circle away before they get too close.

Another build I've tried is 6xCERML + Gauss. I haven't had as much success with this build though, rarely breaking 1000 damage compared to the pure laser vomit build.

My engagement started around 200m or so, I had dropped down and the Dire was just there infront of me, I considered it to be in my favor.

I tried the ERMLs instead of the SPLs before, but found them to not be too great, especially when I noticed most fights end up getting pretty close range anyway. The ERMLs deal less damage, have longer cooldown, longer durations, and 4 has more heat than 6 SPLs. They are considerably worse up close than the SPLs, and with the recent max range nerfs if you are poking at near max optimal range with the LPLs the ERMLs won't really be dealing much damage at that range anyway anymore.

Also tried the Gauss and ML build, sucked bad because you can only poke with the gauss from behind hills while your MLs would eat dirt. You could side with the right arm, but still that exposes more than a hill poke.

I also added some stuff about the Atlas in my last post if you didn't notice already.

Edited by Dakota1000, 08 December 2015 - 03:55 PM.

[TELEFORCE]

I run my Executioner and Gargoyle when I want to run a heavy 'mech but don't want to wait forever in the heavy 'mech queue. These 'mechs are just heavy heavy 'mechs (though I argue that 80-tonners in general like the Gargoyle, Victor, and Awesome have more in common with the actual heavy weight class than the assault class, but that's a BattleTech thing).

Both 'mechs work the best with high-heat loadouts because they have so many fixed double heat sinks. So load up on hot weapons and some extra heat sinks, override shut down, and go to town like a Clan mechwarrior

[pwnface]

Dakota1000, on 08 December 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

My engagement started around 200m or so, I had dropped down and the Dire was just there infront of me, I considered it to be in my favor.

I tried the ERMLs instead of the SPLs before, but found them to not be too great, especially when I noticed most fights end up getting pretty close range anyway. The ERMLs deal less damage, have longer cooldown, longer durations, and 4 has more heat than 6 SPLs. They are considerably worse up close than the SPLs, and with the recent max range nerfs if you are poking at near max optimal range with the LPLs the ERMLs won't really be dealing much damage at that range anyway anymore.

Also tried the Gauss and ML build, sucked bad because you can only poke with the gauss from behind hills while your MLs would eat dirt. You could side with the right arm, but still that exposes more than a hill poke.

I also added some stuff about the Atlas in my last post if you didn't notice already.

It's unlikely that you will be able to frequently get within 200m of a DWF without getting noticed and lit up. If you are able to do so though, you can definitely put the hurt on in a brawler build.

It's true the C-ERML give you less alpha damage but increases your survivability significantly by being able to hit stuff from range without taking damage back in return. The gauss build I had set up uses 6xC-ERML in the right arm and the Gauss in the right torso, so it exposes the same amount as with my other build but is a lot riskier having a Gauss in the right shoulder.

I don't think anything can really beat an Atlas in a brawl, so no shame in that.

Edited by pwnface, 08 December 2015 - 04:02 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

pwnface, on 08 December 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

It's unlikely that you will be able to frequently get within 200m of a DWF without getting noticed and lit up. If you are able to do so though, you can definitely put the hurt on in a brawler build.

It's true the C-ERML give you less alpha damage but increases your survivability significantly by being able to hit stuff from range without taking damage back in return. The gauss build I had set up uses 6xC-ERML in the right arm and the Gauss in the right torso, so it exposes the same amount as with my other build but is a lot riskier having a Gauss in the right shoulder.

I don't think anything can really beat an Atlas in a brawl, so no shame in that.

Seems both the ERMLs and SPLs are situational anyway. ERMLs are great if you are further off, going against an enemy with a low optimal range, and have cover to spare. SPLs are great if you are up close, going against an enemy who can't just get away, and in a spot where you also can't get away.

I usually found myself up close and personal with quite the majority of the enemy mechs I faced, and when running ERMLs still outranged by large laser boats or gauss or PPC or AC boats. Really the only thing It got over on were close range brawlers who brought no poke and had no back up and couldn't move fast and had no cover or way to get near me without me noticing.

If you haven't tried it though, I would recommend the build I use. I kept 3 spls in each arm so I could use the 4 energy slot right arm that had a lower actuator since there wasn't much poking to be had up close anyway before an enemy mech would move around the corner and because the lower actuator helps quite a bit vs faster mechs. Early game just LPL poke, take out those light mechs that run near the group, and try not to take much damage, late game go berserk on all those weakened enemies with your full power as they flee in terror as your 95 ton assault mech at over 90% hp pops out from behind walls at them.

[Wildstreak]

As an Executioner pilot, it is not OP.
It is good if you want a mobile Assault.
You have to live with less firepower than some Assaults carry.
You have to know how to use that lower firepower and mobility to your advantage.
It can 1v1 some Dire Wolves and other Assaults. I still would not try that against multi-AC Dires Wolves & King Crabs, also move away from brawl range against Brawler Atlases.

I did try one for CW before Tukayyid, Alpha Strike Laser Executioner was very nice especially on Boreal Vault.

[pwnface]

Dakota1000, on 08 December 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

Seems both the ERMLs and SPLs are situational anyway. ERMLs are great if you are further off, going against an enemy with a low optimal range, and have cover to spare. SPLs are great if you are up close, going against an enemy who can't just get away, and in a spot where you also can't get away.

This is true, both builds are situational for sure. However, most matches I am in there is ample opportunity to trade from range if you have good positioning. I guess whatever works for your play style, the point is the EXE is underrated for sure.

[SeventhSL]

Brilliant Mech!!! Utterly under estimated.

The catch is the learning curve. It is not easy to start with. You must use MSAC, jump jets and shield instinctively.

You can keep up with your team and lights can't dance you. This alone makes it king of quick match and pug CW.

I have mine setup to brawl with a little utility (10xSPL and 2xERLL in high torso mounts). Brawling negates its low slung weapon mounts. It can put out an insane amount of highly focused damage in a few seconds. Group weapons to avoid ghost heat, pop cool shot and there is nothing in the game that you can't reliably kill in a brawl.

Oh and don't be afraid to over use MASC when dancing other assaults. Better to have damaged legs than be dead.

Edited by SeventhSL, 08 December 2015 - 07:36 PM.