25 replies to this topic

[Xelos]

I was thinking about returning to the game, purchased founders and tried it when it released and didn't feel balanced enough. Coming back looking through everything and stumbled upon the warehouse. I noticed some consumables can only purchased with in-game premium currency. How unbalancing is the consumable "priority air/artillery strike", and "coolshot 18"? Seems like a very big difference in capability from the premium one to the f2p version with C-bills.

Not to be negative completely I found the the tutorial to be well put together.

[DAYLEET]

The one you can buy with cbills are as good once you upgrade them in the player skill tree.

The faster priority dont make any difference.

Edited by DAYLEET, 07 December 2015 - 04:30 PM.

[Aiden Skye]

The MC consumables do the exact same thing as the ones you can get for Cbills once you've skilled them up in your skill tree. So there is no advantage once you put some GXP to level up your "non premium" consumables. None of them are necessary.

[Moomtazz]

As far as i know no one uses them.

Edited by Moomtazz, 07 December 2015 - 04:31 PM.

[Bilbo]

There is no P2W here. Consumables aren't really an issue whether you use c-bill variants, MC variants or none at all.

[Revis Volek]

I have never once used a Coolshot of any flavor in my entire time playing here...

I dont even know what the button is without looking. Arty and Airstrikes are pretty widley used but like DAYLEET said, With some time and GXP you can have one bought with CBILLS (In game currency) that are just as good as the MC (Real Life Currency) ones.

[Mawai]

Not unbalancing at all.

1) You can purchase consumables equal to the MC ones for cbills if you have unlocked the skill for it (which requires 15k GXP). GXP accumulates slowly (quite slowly) or you can spend some MC to convert excess mech xp into GXP. However, the same functionality is available for free to play if they grind it out.

2) You can get by quite well without using consumables at all. Of them all I use the UAV for 40,000 cbills most frequently but it isn't necessary ... just useful for helping my team pull together. I usually have an artillery strike available but I think I have used two of them in the past three years ... other folks seem to like to use them more frequently but they are really only good if your opponents bunch up.

3) I have never used a coolshot and generally don't see the point though I have unlocked them if I ever wanted to use them. They are extremely situational and would typically allow about one extra shot before overheating.

The developers of MWO have been relatively scrupulous about avoiding pay to win. Even the hero mechs, which offer unique hard point layouts and art work are generally agreed to be equal to or less than most of the other variants in terms of performance thus not offering any significant advantage. One exception might be the Stalker Misery which offers a ballistic hardpoint but although it makes it a bit more flexible than the other Stalkers in terms of loadouts, it certainly is not overpowered by any stretch of the imagination. It does make it one of the more popular hero mechs though.

Finally, although all mechs except heroes or other cbill bonus variants will eventually be available for cbills, people who pay for the packages will typically have several months before these mechs become available for MC and cbills to the general player base. (Of course anyone can buy one of these packages at any time). However, this means that folks can pay money for early access to content which is pretty common in free to play but has generated some criticism since the mechs are rarely perfectly balanced when first released and as a result some may be lackluster and others overpowered when first released.

Good examples include the Timberwolf and Stormcrow, which despite some nerfs are still among the best mechs in the game (though these are now available for cbills to anyone who wants them).

Bottom line is that MWO is probably one of the better free to play titles in terms of avoiding pay to win issues.

[Xelos]

Thanks for the replies, I believe my question has been answered.

[Jun Watarase]

I stopped using artillery strikes after i stood still on a smoke flare and all it did was reduce my armor to yellow. Waste of 40k c-bills IMHO.

[Anjian]

The game should not have MC consumables period, UAV, coolant, air or artillery strikes. And it should not even have credit consumables of such either. Consumables have to be awarded by accomplishment, events, and ingame objectives. Other F2P games have avoided or stopped the practice. Instead, consumables, such as artillery and air strikes, like in War Thunder, are earned in game by accomplishing certain conditions. Consumables in World of Warships are now earned by meeting certain ingame objectives as well, making them virtually awarded for accomplishments, and only consumables that boost XP or credit earnings purchasable.

[Stelar 7]

Just to add. I use air strikes and cool shot and uav because PGI keeps throwing them at me as event prizes. I had over 40 uav lying around.

[Troutmonkey]

Stelar 7, on 07 December 2015 - 07:03 PM, said:

Just to add. I use air strikes and cool shot and uav because PGI keeps throwing them at me as event prizes. I had over 40 uav lying around.

Only reason I equipped them to my mechs for the CW event.

[Anjian]

Consumables should not be purchased by any means, and only be attained by rewards for merits, achievements and objectives.

For example, a random consumable for

Logging on and joining a game for two days straight.

For playing over two hours.

For over at least 10 games in one day.

For playing all four different classes of mechs in two hours.

For playing at least one CW game per day.

For three kills a game.

For one base capture and assistance each.

For achieving over 500 damage a game.

For achieving MVP in a public game.

For over 1500 damage in a CW game.

For achieving 5 kills and above in a CW game.

For playing 5 CW games a day.

For achieving MVP for a CW game.

For CW rank promotions.

For achieving match score of 300 and above.

For winning 3 matches in a row in public

For winning 3 matches in a row in CW

Edited by Anjian, 07 December 2015 - 09:17 PM.

[ShinobiHunter]

@Anjian, any particular reason why we shouldn't be able to purchase consumables? I can't see a reason why they're ok as rewards for achievements, but not for cbills...

@OP, I think MWO is about as good as it gets where P2W is concerned. In fact it's so good, I've heard people complaining the Premium Time is P2W in this game lol. They have to gripe about something I guess.

Edited by ShinobiHunter, 07 December 2015 - 09:33 PM.

[Kraftwerkedup]

I have seriously hundreds of the Cbill variants of the consumables from events.

Will never use them.

Another thing like the no screen shake module, MGs and Flamers that no one will ever use unless they dont know any better. The laundry list of stuff PGI has forgotten about fixing.

[Sandpit]

not now or ever P2W, hope that clears things up

[Anjian]

ShinobiHunter, on 07 December 2015 - 09:29 PM, said:

@Anjian, any particular reason why we shouldn't be able to purchase consumables? I can't see a reason why they're ok as rewards for achievements, but not for cbills...

@OP, I think MWO is about as good as it gets where P2W is concerned. In fact it's so good, I've heard people complaining the Premium Time is P2W in this game lol. They have to gripe about something I guess.

F2P games in general are moving away from purchasable consumables that can directly affect game outcomes, though they maintain consumables that can boost XP and credit collection.

What people consider P2W is a shifting gate post that varies person to person, and for some, even payable consumables is already a nuanced P2W. There is endless debates in the most infamous example of an F2P consumable --- the "gold" ammo in World of Tanks. No matter how many debate it is or not P2W, there is inevitable and considerable brand damage from it, which is why the concept is abandoned in World of Warships and War Thunder.

Now we are heading to the point where the gold standard on F2P is to reduce or avoid payable consumables.

Edited by Anjian, 07 December 2015 - 09:42 PM.

[Moomtazz]

Anjian, on 07 December 2015 - 09:40 PM, said:

F2P games in general are moving away from purchasable consumables that can directly affect game outcomes, though they maintain consumables that can boost XP and credit collection.

What people consider P2W is a shifting gate post that varies person to person, and for some, even payable consumables is already a nuanced P2W. There is endless debates in the most infamous example of an F2P consumable --- the "gold" ammo in World of Tanks. No matter how many debate it is or not P2W, there is inevitable and considerable brand damage from it, which is why the concept is abandoned in World of Warships and War Thunder.

Now we are heading to the point where the gold standard on F2P is to reduce or avoid payable consumables.

So what? There is no difference in effectiveness in the MC version vs the Cbill version. You want to avoid Pay2Win but if your suggestion of only giving consumables for "meeting objectives" were in place, the big users would be no lives who play 8 hours a day.

IMO they should just remove consumables altogether or give everyone their pick of two consumables for free every match. At 40k Cbills the cost adds up if you are a new player trying to save up for mechs. I'd rather even the playing field and give them to everyone or take them all away.

[Anjian]

Moomtazz, on 08 December 2015 - 03:29 AM, said:

So what? There is no difference in effectiveness in the MC version vs the Cbill version. You want to avoid Pay2Win but if your suggestion of only giving consumables for "meeting objectives" were in place, the big users would be no lives who play 8 hours a day.

IMO they should just remove consumables altogether or give everyone their pick of two consumables for free every match. At 40k Cbills the cost adds up if you are a new player trying to save up for mechs. I'd rather even the playing field and give them to everyone or take them all away.

Its not the question of effectiveness. Its the question of principle, why they are paid at all. Once implemented, its not the degree of implementation, but the point that the door for it has been opened at all. The effectiveness and severity can be adjusted anytime, just numbers on a database. The thing is, the precedent is set, when the player culture has adjusted to it, the developers can move on to the next step. What can only stop them is a vigilant player base.

Pretty much agree with you on the last paragraph. I would rather have not seen consumables at all.

[Lugh]

Jun Watarase, on 07 December 2015 - 05:11 PM, said:

I stopped using artillery strikes after i stood still on a smoke flare and all it did was reduce my armor to yellow. Waste of 40k c-bills IMHO.

Wrong time to use it. You use it as a finisher when that cherry red CT grouping is making it back to cover to level them with stuff they didn't see coming..