22 replies to this topic

[Herbi Vore]

I am not here to slam PGI but just as an honest question :
Firstly I believe this game is truly, unlike some others free to play . . . after doing the tutorial and my cadet time I had 3 elite mechs a fist full of cbills and had started to think of buying my first module . . . so well done PGI .

How ever . . . doesn't the new " Origins" offering prove that mechs, however much you spend on them and how ever much real money you lavish on them will eventually become obsolete . . .

I have nothing against PGI making money . . . this just seems to be shooting your self in the foot !

Please remember to be your usual considerate and thoughtful selves . . .

Oh and how do I get a signature for my forum post . . . It's taken me a half an hour to figure out how to post this . . . be kind please.

[Mcgral18]

For sig, top right, 'profile'>forum profile>edit my profile>signature


For IIC mechs, yeah, they're superior. How superior depends on Quirk changes, debuffs at launch and scale.
Hitboxes play a part as well. They shouldn't be exceedingly powerful (while they could be, the heavy+assault are mediocre), with the Light and Medium being the powerful set...of course, Lights and Meds are weak as a chassis.


They'll die like any other mech, with limited armour. They'll generally pack more guns, however.

[VanguardMk1]

There will always be new mechs that fit in perfectly in MWO, while other new chassis will have a hard time. Getting mechs in the game that seem to be clearly superior is often referred to as powercreep. I don't worry about it too much, the IIC mechs will die just as quickly as other Clan mechs.

[Lyoto Machida]

Welcome to the forums. Try to enjoy the game for what it is and leave the rest of us to feel burnt out instead of you.

[norus]

I wouldn't say they'll definitively become obsolete. The dragon, wolverine, even the cicada are all hanging around now despite rarely being seen before quirk passes. What's strong at one point will eventually take an arrow to the knee and something else will rise up like some fugly baby phoenix. For the IIC mechs specifically as far as I know there aren't any specifics available yet as to how they'll be quirked or negaquirked to balance them. If they're too strong initially they'll get nerfed, if too weak they'll get buffed. They'll be hard pressed as is to over-take the current clan meta of hellbringers, timberwolves, stormcrows, and arctic cheetahs anyways.

The WVK-6k once had LPL quirks on it and was awesome, got switched to large laser (annoying me greatly), and now has generic energy quirks which allow me to run it very well as a LPL machine again (mah waifu's back). PGI's balancing isn't great but at least they manage to get some outdated mechs viable or even meta-status when they do balancing changes.

[Lyoto Machida]

norus, on 08 December 2015 - 01:01 AM, said:

I wouldn't say they'll definitively become obsolete. The dragon, wolverine, even the cicada are all hanging around now despite rarely being seen before quirk passes. What's strong at one point will eventually take an arrow to the knee and something else will rise up like some fugly baby phoenix. For the IIC mechs specifically as far as I know there aren't any specifics available yet as to how they'll be quirked or negaquirked to balance them. If they're too strong initially they'll get nerfed, if too weak they'll get buffed. They'll be hard pressed as is to over-take the current clan meta of hellbringers, timberwolves, stormcrows, and arctic cheetahs anyways.

The WVK-6k once had LPL quirks on it and was awesome, got switched to large laser (annoying me greatly), and now has generic energy quirks which allow me to run it very well as a LPL machine again (mah waifu's back). PGI's balancing isn't great but at least they manage to get some outdated mechs viable or even meta-status when they do balancing changes.

The Dragon is one of the mechs you're going to cite???

[Karl Marlow]

I would have cited an Atlas personally.

[norus]

Lyoto Machida, on 08 December 2015 - 01:06 AM, said:

The Dragon is one of the mechs you're going to cite???

The dragon has been stuck with bad design for a long time, I saw them in beta during dragonbowling days. When I started playing again some time after they were extinct. Then they became super fotm. Now the 1n isn't as strong with the latest patch but it's still in a HELL of a lot better place than it was, between firepower and hefty structure buffs. I won't be seeing one on a team and thinking lelelscrub if someone's using it like before.

ThomasMarik, on 08 December 2015 - 01:13 AM, said:

I would have cited an Atlas personally.

I didn't really think of Atlas as I haven't been playing tons, but it is pretty beastly. Will it still be as solid as it is now in future patches? Who knows, maybe it'll be knocked to t3 status. **** changes, but it'd probably still be better off than it was.

[Macster16]

Before quirks, I'd say there was a real powercreep issue, especially when Clams first came out and they stomped all over IS mechs. Since then however, I'd say PGI have done a good job of keeping a lid on powercreep. Lots of oldies are still perfectly viable and are commonly fielded.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Not always. There has been power creep overall (with quirks attempting to patch some of the lacking chassis), but mechs are still a mixed bag throughout the entire run of MWO.

The Stalker was the third assault mech in the game, and it is still a mainstay. Even the Hunchback, Centurion, and Catapult (mostly K2 and Jester) are still seen around. The Jager is popular and it is pretty old by now (introduced in Beta). On the flip side, new mechs can often be "obsolete" the moment they are released. It just depends.

All mechs use the same equip. It really depends on a mech's hardpoints, hardpoint location, engine cap, and sometimes quirks.

Mech's are often added because people love them (regardless of effectivness) so some are better than others when they launch to start with, but hopefully quirks help.

Lastly, if you are relatively new to the game, older mechs often get put away when new mechs are released so it may appear that older mechs don't get used as much. Once the new released mech is leveled up, often the old mech resurface more.

[totgeboren]

I switch between mechs a lot, but my best mechs are my Awesomes, Wolverines, King Crabs and Panthers.
Some old some new.
(I only mention IS mechs because I play them more, and it feels unfair to compare between IS and Clan, since they are sort of different and the balance between them is still soso).

Of my old mechs, the Jenners, Centurions and Catapults still feel rather weak, but not so weak as to make them unplayable. They just require a bit more skill and thinking.

But anyway, yes, sometimes new mechs make older ones obsolete. When they do, they are often nerfed a bit after a while, and/or the old ones are buffed.

[Raggedyman]

Herbi Vore, on 08 December 2015 - 12:45 AM, said:

How ever . . . doesn't the new " Origins" offering prove that mechs, however much you spend on them and how ever much real money you lavish on them will eventually become obsolete . . .

(ignoring the broken balance factors, and that the whole point of the mobile timeline in the setting was that people did bring out better and better mechs...)

New mechs are always disruptive because people aren't used to dealing with them, and then people get used to dealing with them (and the inbalances get nerfed, to some degree) so the "newness edge" is gone. Plus as soon as a new pack comes along everyone goes "THE NEW GOD IS HERE!!!" and forgets about the (now old) newness.

It's a constant cycle, not helped by any addition to a game needing refinement as the big data is only available after a lot of usage in a live environment.

[Herbi Vore]

Some great points made and made well . . . thank you all for your input .

[GRiPSViGiL]

Power creep is real here. Aside from the tier 1 mechs everything else is redundant and pointless. There is no reason to own every mech in the game. However they have tons of mech collecting shill customers. Sure they can quirk mechs to be relevant but that is a broken system with no ingenuity at all.

Which with PGIs track record of development is par for the course.

[Coolant]

Welcome to the game IIC mechs will be unlike any other mechs currently, built totally different in the Mechlab. However, they won't necessary be overpowered, we will just have to see.

I'm glad you were able to get 3 mechs elited and have some cash left over. That gives me hope in retaining Steam players. Thanks for sharing that. What module are you looking to get?

[Lyoto Machida]

norus, on 08 December 2015 - 01:16 AM, said:

The dragon has been stuck with bad design for a long time, I saw them in beta during dragonbowling days. When I started playing again some time after they were extinct. Then they became super fotm. Now the 1n isn't as strong with the latest patch but it's still in a HELL of a lot better place than it was, between firepower and hefty structure buffs. I won't be seeing one on a team and thinking lelelscrub if someone's using it like before.


I didn't really think of Atlas as I haven't been playing tons, but it is pretty beastly. Will it still be as solid as it is now in future patches? Who knows, maybe it'll be knocked to t3 status. **** changes, but it'd probably still be better off than it was.

I can't recall having seen a Dragon (1N or otherwise) since the patch. I'd like to think I'm pretty cognizant of their presence in games, seeing as how I fight for Kurita and have multiple Dragons (except the Flame) mastered. Oh, and my namesake in game is known as The Dragon in real life. Maybe there's a lot of Dragons in your games but I don't know that I'd consider them relevant nowadays, except for diehard Dragon pilots (which were rare to begin with before quirks).

[Revis Volek]

It would only be powercreep if the IIC jenner was to replace the Old Jenner..

It will not because the IIc Jenner is for Clans and the Old Jenner is an IS mech.

[Revis Volek]

GRiPSViGiL, on 08 December 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

Power creep is real here. Aside from the tier 1 mechs everything else is redundant and pointless. There is no reason to own every mech in the game. However they have tons of mech collecting shill customers. Sure they can quirk mechs to be relevant but that is a broken system with no ingenuity at all.

Which with PGIs track record of development is par for the course.

Ya know, you'd think you would get tired of being a broken record Day in and Day out for 3 years now...Everyone know how you feel and no one gives a rats *** if you cant tell.

Did PGI burn down your house or something? Touch your Atlas in a bad place? You have to be one of the most vindictive gamer who "doesnt care" i have ever seen in my life.


I really hope you can just get over this one day and move on. This cant be good for your health....

[Scout Derek]

Herbi Vore, on 08 December 2015 - 12:45 AM, said:

I am not here to slam PGI but just as an honest question :
Firstly I believe this game is truly, unlike some others free to play . . . after doing the tutorial and my cadet time I had 3 elite mechs a fist full of cbills and had started to think of buying my first module . . . so well done PGI .

How ever . . . doesn't the new " Origins" offering prove that mechs, however much you spend on them and how ever much real money you lavish on them will eventually become obsolete . . .

I have nothing against PGI making money . . . this just seems to be shooting your self in the foot !

Please remember to be your usual considerate and thoughtful selves . . .

Oh and how do I get a signature for my forum post . . . It's taken me a half an hour to figure out how to post this . . . be kind please.

Mcgral18, on 08 December 2015 - 12:49 AM, said:

For sig, top right, 'profile'>forum profile>edit my profile>signature


For IIC mechs, yeah, they're superior. How superior depends on Quirk changes, debuffs at launch and scale.
Hitboxes play a part as well. They shouldn't be exceedingly powerful (while they could be, the heavy+assault are mediocre), with the Light and Medium being the powerful set...of course, Lights and Meds are weak as a chassis.


They'll die like any other mech, with limited armour. They'll generally pack more guns, however.

To talk about the IIC, they were considered generally much OP, but now that I look at the new XL nerfs for the clans and well, IIC isn't that much superior. Like Mcgral said, depends on the quirks.

However, I can bring this up for you real quick on pros and cons of clan omnis and clan battlemechs.

Omnis can change limbs (Pro), but cannot change engine(Con), upgrades(Con), or equipment(Con).

Battlemechs can't change limbs(Con), but can change engine(Pro), upgrades(Pro), and equipment(Pro).

So right now it's 1:2 in freedom for clan omnis against clan battlemechs.

I would say to make it seem that omnis are more sleek by lowering that XL penalty for them by 5-6%, and then keep the battlemechs up at 20% for the penalty, that way, omnis are more nimble (As per say most clan omnis are generally fast), while the battlemechs still get that tough 20% to deal with since they can customize quite a bit.

[Sandpit]

So they should just stop making new mechs op?