18 replies to this topic

[CrazyDave1313]

Hello! Sorry if this is the wrong forum; I just wasn't sure where else to place it.

It's around that time where I'm looking for a new 'mech or two to add to my stable, and while I was considering the various chasses available, I ran into a consistent problem: I don't know how to really fight heavy 'mechs well.

I have 'mechs that can fight lights and mediums well enough, and even a few that can counter the slower assaults. But I don't really know how to build a 'mech to fight heavies. My medium builds don't seem to have enough speed to outmaneuver them sufficiently - or if they do, they're fragile or lack sufficient weaponry. Light 'mechs are usually fast enough, but I'm just not good enough in them to inflict a satisfying amount of damage. And the assault 'mechs I've played (both the King Crab and Stalker) were just too slow and cumbersome for me; I never did well in them. (Though, I've heard the Victor is pretty good now, and I've never played it before, so maybe that's an answer).

So, tl;dr: what do you guys use when the heavy 'mech population in matchmaking is high, and you want to go hunting Timber Wolves and the like? And do you have any tips for someone who just can't seem to figure it out?

Thanks in advance!

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Usually I use heavies or assaults to go heavy hunting. Amass enough firepower and their CTs go down fast, some IS ones even use XLs and die faster.

For heavy mechs its just: if you can't beat them, join them.

For assault mechs, since you don't like the slower ones then I'd recommend some faster ones. Personally I like the Executioner best when it comes to fast assaults. Other ones out there are the Zeus, Banshee, Gargoyle, Warhawk, Battlemaster, and Victor.

I just like the Executioner a lot because it just has so much armor and firepower and speed. MASC helps a lot, JJs add a little too. The IS assaults need XLs to go fast, which means they die on side torso loss, but they all go faster than the Warhawk or Executioner. Gargoyle wins in speed out of the Clan mechs, but it loses when it comes to possible build quality. Warhawk is good with a few large weapons while Executioner is good with lots of massed weaponry.

Mediums and lights will have some problems going against heavy mechs, they really are outclassed in firepower and armor, and usually heavy mechs aren't so slow that the medium and light mechs get much advantage anyway.

[Scyther]

Not the hottest MechWarrior here, but one technique that gets used on heavies is alpha striking (or ambushing, is another way to look at it). Basically, you want to set up your mech (another heavy works well) with a number of weapons that can hit hard and accurately at what you determine to be your 'strike zone'.

Then you keep an eye on the map, watch what teammates are doing, stay in support range of your front line. Whenever you get a decent shot, you dump a massive amount of damage on one spot (preferably). Heavies aren't too zippy so you usually get to make a nice shot.

I usually set my mechs up with what I think of as my 'one-two' punch (left & right mouse buttons). LMB is my slower loading, shorter range, heavy punch. RMB is my longer range harassing attack. (Yeah its a simplistic setup, I'm a simple guy)

You get in position, deliver your biggest hit, and then move for cover or another shot, depending on situation. Against other heavies, you don't really want a lot of 'face time' because they will be set up to slug the hell out of you too.

[Metus regem]

Hit the heavies from behind, they often shave back armour so that they can take more of a beating when trading shots. I know people that only run 2-3 points of armour on the back of their Timber Wolves, so that they can make the most of laser vomit.

[Nightmare1]

My Heavy Mech hunters are as follows:

Lights:
Firestarter A
Panther 10K

Mediums:
Hunchback 4G, 4P, and GI
Enforcer 4R, 5D, and 4P
Centurion Yen Lo Wang

Assaults:
BattleMaster 1G and 1D
Victor 9S
Dire Wolf

Those are the Mechs that I use when I want to specifically kill Heavies and I can't pilot Heavies because the queue is too bloated. The HBK-4G is kind of my go-to Mech though. It's my oldest Mech and my favorite:

Edited by Nightmare1, 08 December 2015 - 07:13 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Timber is one of the best mechs in the game. You dont go out hunting timbers they hunt you hehe

If this is a one on one fresh mechs and you want to kill a timber, you need an assault. You need a faster assault or one with massive powerful.

You can kill a timber in few seconds with a Uac Dire. If you dont kill it in seconds it will kill you.
Next is a faster assaults with a heavy pin point. Maybe the banshee 3m setup with wubbing.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 08 December 2015 - 07:16 PM.

[FupDup]

Heavies as a whole don't really have a specific weakness. They're the middleman between lights and assaults that gets the better end of the deal than mediums, for the most part.

Some particular heavies have weaknesses like bad hitboxes or low hardpoints, but that isn't something isolated to the heavy class.

[sycocys]

Depends on what I'm in the mood to play, everything I build is designed to fight heavies/assaults first which mostly takes care of the rest.

Assault -
Warhawk - UAC10s
Atlas - AC20, MLs and 3 srm6 (reasonably big engine is needed for this build)
Maulers - 6AC2 if I feel silly, 4 ac5 if I just want to be reasonable, 2 guass, 4 MPL, 2 srm6 if I'm feeling nutty

Mediums - HBK-4SP - XL275, 5ML, 2 SRM4 (for me this is one of the best)
Sparky - ML
BJ-1X - ML+2MPL or all ML really doesn't matter theirs ghost heat either way.
Yen-Lo - because Yen Lo

Lights - Death's Knell - 3MPL, SL. Still my favorite anything hunter light mech. The 3 E (2B iirc) is nearly as good as long as you put a new pattern on it so it doesn't look like friar tuck.

Firestarters, Cheetahs, Wolfhounds, and oh yeah - you probably wouldn't believe it but Urbies once you get a hang of them.

[Burktross]

Don't try to out circle them. Use cover to attack from where they're not looking. Always alpha-- do not try to sustain DPS if you're in their sights.

[El Bandito]

sycocys, on 08 December 2015 - 07:27 PM, said:

BJ-1X - ML+2MPL or all ML really doesn't matter theirs ghost heat either way.

ML+2MPL one does not have ghost heat cause MPL and ML GH are separate.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 December 2015 - 07:40 PM.

[sycocys]

El Bandito, on 08 December 2015 - 07:40 PM, said:

ML+2MPL one does not have ghost heat cause MPL and ML GH are separate.

It seems like it produces the GH, and rates lower efficiency than in smurfy which doesn't account for it.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Best thing against heavies is another heavy. Heavies are best against pretty much any other class as well. Timberwolf was number 1, though the quirks may have killed it. I would rate the HBR as #2. Then next best mech is probably the SCR which can kill most heavies and assaults one on one.

[ChewBaka]

You don't. Lights and Mediums don't have what it takes to take on a Heavy 1-vs-1.

Well, a Light might be able to manage it if the Heavy doesn't have streaks or pulse lasers but you have to hope that pilot isn't a good shot who can still put a Gauss or AC20 round in your side despite your best efforts to dodge.

The general rule of MWO is to never put yourself in a situation where it is a fair fight for your opponent. Zellbrigen is dumb. Doesn't matter if you're in a clan mech. Honor doesn't win matches for you.

If you must take down a heavy, do it in a wolfpack with focused fire. Either that, or make sure you have some sort of advantage. Like if the Heavy is a LRM boat, than you close in on him. If it has a short-ranged brawling build, keep your distance and snipe.

Just never ever engage a Heavy in a fair fight when you're in a Medium. Assuming equal skill, you will lose. Always.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

I use my jenners, my hunchies, my wolverines, my shadowhawks... just all my my mechs to be honest.

My trick is to not fight fair. If I don't have a position advantage on them I move until I do. I actually run enough rear armor to eat a couple hits while in GTFO mode too and I make the most of it to reposition if I'm going to be in trouble. Not when I am in trouble, when I'm in a position where I will be in trouble if I don't take action.

As a light... to be perfectly honest if I'm against a fresh clan mech I just leg the damn things. I figure I've probably got to pop both ST anyways and if I'm running around a lot I won't be hitting the rear torso all the time but since leg hitboxes have a single armor pool and a lot of pilots strip a ton r two of leg armor... well it's just the easiest thing to do.

[Elizander]

3x UAC/5 Jager hunts anything (assuming you can hit with the dakka) :3

[Xetelian]

Don't dismiss assaults because you couldn't get the hang of the KGC and STK. I feel the DWF is the ultimate weapon in taking down heavies. The average heavy holds ~80 armor in the center torso and the DWF can easily fit a 70 alpha and take out the heavy in two alphas or you can even bring a 90 point alpha if you mix and match lasers with dual gauss. Before you give up on assaults give the slowest behemoth a go, its power is overwhelming.

You're probably not going to find easy answers to the heavy problem. They are agile enough to fight a light and have enough firepower to instantly maim a medium. This is why the heavy queue is 40%-50% the total of all weight classes.

[Sandpit]

You sound like you might be good for something like an enforcer or hunchback style medium. beefy and tanky but still plenty of fast enough to be fairly mobile.

heavies that sound like they might suit you well would be along the lines of phracts mads, knights,

assaults, if you like to get up and "face smash" enemy mechs under 300 meters, the Mauler is the best in the game bar none in my opinion. Use CASE and you're off to the races at about 50/kph and a std engine, BAP for those pesky cheetahs, command console in one build, ams, max armor almost, and one of 3 loadouts
4xAC5

2xAC10 + 2 SRM6+artemis

2xAC10 + 3 SRM4+artemis

You will never overheat in that thing. While everyone else is cooling off, you're still plunking AC 10 rounds into their chest.

the BAP prevents ECM from sneaking up on you and those little ECM runts (you too Hellbringers) either melt under a couple of alphas or turn and run for their collective arses. The profile is broad so I wouldn't recommend using XL engines but it has so much armor it just tanks and tanks and tanks.

Heavies are tricky. They're pretty much the "best of both worlds" between mediums and assaults. If you're in an assault and you're built to battle in the same style as that heavy, remember you have 10+ tons of armor and weaponry than he does. Make your shots count and chain fire. A constant stream of damage while not all "pinpoint" does a lot more to make a pilot turn away than an alpha. Using your weapons like that will suppress them and make them start turning and backing up.

In mediums you almost have to treat them the same as an assault mech opponent. They're usually much beefier than you. They may not pack much more firepower than you many times but they make up for it in armor. You can't trade shots with a good heavy pilot most times. You have to count on your extra mobility to win that battle. Whether that be positioning, or maneuvering, or knife fighting, you have to be able to out perform in this area. Many mediums with good weapon payloads typically sacrifice armor to get it.

Don't be timid with them if you get the advantage either. Get in their faces. It's ok to take some damage now and then, just know how and when to soak it.

Hope any of the information I gave helps. That's how I personally tend to deal with them. My favorite medium at the moment is the Crab. It's a great enery platform and can tank great. It soaks and keeps firing. dual ams large lasers, er larger lasers, you name it. It's the perfect medium direct fire support in the game right now in my opinion. It has a great heat index and the profile is similar to stalkers.

[Sandpit]

sycocys, on 08 December 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

It seems like it produces the GH, and rates lower efficiency than in smurfy which doesn't account for it.

GH is a great harassing mech. Having a heavy mech like that loaded out with medium and short range weapons jumping around your backsides is rough. It can even be outfitted to keep up with slower end light mechs. It's really versatile as well. The QD is a "tanky" medium in my opinion. Anything the QD can do, the GH can do better.

The Mad is best hvy in game at the moment in my opinion. Knights still rate up there as well.

[XX Sulla XX]

Its not about bringing a special counter its about bringing a good mech and build and skill. Any mech can kill a heavy.