24 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

Greetings Mechwarriors. I had a few crazy ideas.

1.Change Pinpoint (skill) to increase the range on weapons by, say, 5%. PGI wouldn't even have to change the name of it and everyone likes a little more range on their weapons.

2.Flamers deal damage to internal structure, ignoring armor. When your mech overheats you take ticking internal damage so why shouldn't Flamers, which roast your mech have a similar ability?

They wouldn't be OP unless they dealt a lot of damage quickly. You'd still have to get within 100 meters for them to be effective but this would make them a little more useful.

3.Increase ammo per ton for ballistics and missiles. With an increase in TTK we need more ammo for ammo dependant builds to stay relevant. Nobody likes to run OOA in the middle of a glorious battle. I think a small increase like 80/T for AC2, 40/T for AC5 and 120 for atleast SRMs would be a nice change.

4.Decrease PPC and ER PPC heat by roughly 20% and increase PPC, ER PPC and ballistic velocity by say, 30-40%. Just to eliminate the uber quirks that some of them need.

What do you all think? What would you all like to see PGI add to help balance this game or just make it a lil better?

[FupDup]

The combined PPC buffs of heat reduction and speed increase might actually make them...OP. Yes, I said it.

I'd rather bump the velocity up to no less than 1300-1400 m/s, and leave the heat where it is.

I like their heat where it is because it emphasizes their lack of sustainability in brawling situations. This ensures that they have a significant weakness to prevent them from being omnipotent after their velocity gets notched back up to where it used to be.

Edited by FupDup, 08 December 2015 - 03:07 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

1. I'd rather they just re-implement delayed convergence, to be honest.

2. Not a fan of armor piercing abilities. I'd prefer they just make flamers stronger at dealing damage, and make heat generation a secondary effect that is weak against armor (armor should be able to absorb and dissipate the heat pretty well) but stronger when targeted at exposed internals.

3. I want:

AC2: 100
AC5: 40
AC10: 20
AC20: 9
Gauss: 12

SRMs should just get a damage buff with a slight cooldown nerf.

4. Just buffing velocity should be enough for PPCs alone. ERPPCs could probably use a heat reduction to 12 in addition to velocity buffs. Or maybe have them generate heat on the target, for added flavor.

[cazidin]

Yeah, I wasn't thinking any less than say 8 or 9 heat for PPCs and 12 or 13 for ER PPCs with the velocity increase. Atm they're not very good without quirks... and that's poor balance.

Edited by cazidin, 08 December 2015 - 03:20 PM.

[Mcgral18]

cazidin, on 08 December 2015 - 03:17 PM, said:

Yeah, I wasn't thinking any less than say 8 or 9 heat for PPCs and 12 or 13 for ER PPCs with the velocity increase. Atm they're not very good without quirks... and that's poor balance.

Yes


That's what it was during the dying days of the PPC meta.
Though, it switched from 2 KM/s to 1.5KM/s.

Also had a 3 second cooldown at one point.



I still laugh that the second longest range weapon in the game had one of the fastest cooldowns...silly PGI.

[Deathlike]

I suggest you guys take a moment at look @ the BJ-3 as a reference point for what you're asking for PPCs+ERPPCs.

Also, I'm really bad at PPCs since I haven't used them much until recently.

Do math. Balance master's math is hilariously bad (BJ-3 is not OP, but who doesn't want a BJ? )

Edited by Deathlike, 08 December 2015 - 03:35 PM.

[Sandpit]

I think the AC20 could stand for a slight ammo increase on the IS side compared to the AC20s for the clans and their abilities with them it really suffers. 9-10 rounds per ton for it would be a good spot in my opinion.

Other than that ammo is good where it's at. Those who know how to use ammo wisely (especially in CW) do very well with it. It's part of the overall strategy. Lurms DEFINITELY don't need ANY boost at the moment.

[Impyrium]

Personally I'm fine with the heat and velocity of PPCs at the moment. And that's coming from an Awesome pilot. I like how they're fairly unsustainable in close combat, which seems fair, and it really sets apart the 'mechs with decent PPC quirks as 'PPC carriers' of sorts.

[FupDup]

Dingo Red, on 08 December 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

Personally I'm fine with the heat and velocity of PPCs at the moment. And that's coming from an Awesome pilot. I like how they're fairly unsustainable in close combat, which seems fair, and it really sets apart the 'mechs with decent PPC quirks as 'PPC carriers' of sorts.

Are you counting the AWS's PPC quirks in your assessment?

Quirks to distinguish special mechs are totes okay, but I would also like the guns to have a "baseline usability" on mechs which lack such quirks.

[VaudeVillain]

The problem is that PPC and Large Lasers still don't have the increased range their ER counterparts were given. Besides that, ERLL got reduced heat too.

[FupDup]

GaiDaigoji, on 08 December 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

The problem is that PPC and Large Lasers still don't have the increased range their ER counterparts were given. Besides that, ERLL got reduced heat too.

The PPC's issue isn't range, it's that the velocity makes it unreliable at its current ranges. More on-paper range wouldn't really do much for the gun.

The ERLL had its heat reduced because its default value of 12 heat would make it useless. I could understand upping its heat to 9 in exchange for cutting its beam duration down to 1.0s, but no more heat than that.

[Impyrium]

FupDup, on 08 December 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

Are you counting the AWS's PPC quirks in your assessment?

Quirks to distinguish special mechs are totes okay, but I would also like the guns to have a "baseline usability" on mechs which lack such quirks.

I was, and fair point, maybe PPCs should be helped out a little.

[cazidin]

What about poor Flamers? What would make them viable weapons?

[Mcgral18]

cazidin, on 08 December 2015 - 04:47 PM, said:

What about poor Flamers? What would make them viable weapons?

Make them not have useless damage.

Increase it to 2 DPS. Straight change that variable.
Remove heat on target if you want, but make them effective, short range weapons.

[Sandpit]

Mcgral18, on 08 December 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

Make them not have useless damage.

Increase it to 2 DPS. Straight change that variable.
Remove heat on target if you want, but make them effective, short range weapons.

Give flamers two modes
Heat mode = no damage but increases heat output on target
Damage mode = damage but no heat output on target

Think of it is a cutting torch. The more focused you get the flame the less it heats up the metal and starts cutting it. Same principle and solves most of the flamer balancing issues.

[AEgg]

Sandpit, on 08 December 2015 - 05:17 PM, said:

Give flamers two modes
Heat mode = no damage but increases heat output on target
Damage mode = damage but no heat output on target

Think of it is a cutting torch. The more focused you get the flame the less it heats up the metal and starts cutting it. Same principle and solves most of the flamer balancing issues.

PGI can't do modal weapons See: Clan LBX.

Despite the fact that all they would have to do is have two separate weapons display in the list, one for one mode and one for another, and use the "only fire one at a time" code they already wrote for the Guass to prevent firing both modes at once.

More on topic, flamers definitely need something. 2 DPS seems reasonable, considering MGs would just barely be viable at 1 DPS and flamers produce tons of heat and are even less reliable than MGs are.

[Thunder Child]

I agree with the Skill Change, if for no other reason than to have it actually DO something.

Regarding Flamers, I believe both them and Machine Guns should get a solid DPS Bump to at least 1 DPS, if not 1.5 DPS (slightly better than a Small Laser), but have the range reduced to 90m Optimal.
Make them murderous CQC weapons. Remove the Heat component on target. This makes Flamers a High heat High Damage weapon at short range. Machine Guns would be No Heat, High Damage weapons, but I think the Ammo Count should be halved.

Regarding ammo in general? No. No increase.
Why? Because that is the trade off. You get pinpoint, low heat, front loaded damage, but are restricted in quantity.
Or you can take Lasers for pinpoint damage over time, with high heat. AC 2s could do with more heat reduction, and possibly a slightly faster firing rate.

And lastly, the Peeps. After finally getting over the Poptart butthurt, yes, I agree they could do with a velocity increase, but heat and reload should stay the same. PPCs should be a low DPS, High Impact Long Range weapon. Maybe deal some heat to the target too. At less than 400m, they should get overwhelmed by Short Range weapons.

[Sandpit]

AEgg, on 08 December 2015 - 05:22 PM, said:

PGI can't do modal weapons See: Clan LBX.

Despite the fact that all they would have to do is have two separate weapons display in the list, one for one mode and one for another, and use the "only fire one at a time" code they already wrote for the Guass to prevent firing both modes at once.

More on topic, flamers definitely need something. 2 DPS seems reasonable, considering MGs would just barely be viable at 1 DPS and flamers produce tons of heat and are even less reliable than MGs are.

Let's start with striking out your opening line and go from there shall we? Since it has absolutely nothing to do with my post or the topic. "PGI can't" isn't the basis for any argument in this thread

I don't know (or want to) know the math well enough to give specific DPS numbers for them, but if they switched it to two formats like that it brings them back into a more useful tool and more balanced I think.

The reason people goof off with them and boat them in such high numbers is because realistically they're an untterly useless weapon. In their current iteration they really serve no purpose in the game other than selling out of your inventory in comparison to every other weapon in the game, even the MG

[Thunder Child]

But you gotta admit, it's good fun for a Pug match or two to drop in a 12 Flamer Nova.....

[Escef]

cazidin, on 08 December 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

Greetings Mechwarriors. I had a few crazy ideas.

1.Change Pinpoint (skill) to increase the range on weapons by, say, 5%. PGI wouldn't even have to change the name of it and everyone likes a little more range on their weapons.

I'd be more on board with the idea of extending optimal range without extending maximum range.