72 replies to this topic

[ZenFool]

I've been wrecking face with what I thought was a lolz build until I tried it. Nearly 1200 lrms, an lrm10/5 huginn. Runs 127kph or so. It is amazing. In CW it consistently gets 600 damage and I average 500 in regular matches. Ecm has fallen from favor, but even when I run into an ecm mech I simply engage it at 200 to 240 meters with bap. I'm not sitting in the back lobbing missiles, I'm dancing near the front or pulling someone away from the side. The only downside is that I max out damage at 800 with a good arty, but I don't care. I haven't had this much sheer trollish delight in ages.

[C E Dwyer]

I'd generally hold that LRM's are no good on lights but for the three kill, 500 plus damage a unit member scored on his troll build Oxide, saw the buid, it didn't even have BAP for hells sake.

now it was only one game and one game doesn't make it meta, but it does mean that there is potential to be sucessful in pug drops with lrm lights

[jaxjace]

Ragingdemon, on 13 December 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

If I can pull 600 damage in my LRM Myst Linx then I believe that this theory holds some ground.

Stop you right there.

That might work in low tiers but trust me, you try bringing that with the sharks, your gonna have a BAD time mmkay?

[Mahpsy]

jaxjace, on 13 December 2015 - 05:11 PM, said:

Stop you right there.

That might work in low tiers but trust me, you try bringing that with the sharks, your gonna have a BAD time mmkay?

Ummm duh? Does anyone actually read posts anymore '-_-

[Malagant]

sycocys, on 13 December 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

2 LRM5's is less scary than 2 MGs honestly.

So when missiles are inbound, do you just stay out in the open or do you run for cover...like everyone else?

[Haji1096]

LRMS on lights is literally the dumbest thing ever. The areas in which you have to operate in to be successful also means you will skirmish with other lights.

Another light pilot sees your light with LRMS, he is going to kill you easily then move on to something else.

[SpiralFace]

Seriously, Missiles need an ammo boost to make them viable against other weapon slots for lights.

Just like the AC 10 ammo got a boost, light AC and missile ammo is in dire need of a boost if it is to ever be concidered a viable choice on anything lighter then 35 tons.

Which is a shame

[JC Daxion]

To me, Ammo based lights, need an ammo quirk... +50 or 100% ammo, when you add any weapon that needs ammo. All my ammo based lights, have a very hard time making it to the end of a match with any ammo left.. And that is with me, trying to conserve. Run up against a large assault, and you can dump your entire ammo load before the thing is dead. Commando verse dire! Where as all the energy boats, have no issue, and can rack up 1000-1200 damage... My SRM commando, cant put out more than 600 for the most part before it is out, and your down to 1 or 2 lasers. Other ammo based lights have the exact same problem.


Let alone CW, outside of a cicada, which isn't even a light, i would just not run any light that needed ammo.


My thoughts are entirely about IS... I never played anything clan side.

Edited by JC Daxion, 13 December 2015 - 07:27 PM.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

JC Daxion, on 13 December 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

To me, Ammo based lights, need an ammo quirk... +50 or 100% ammo, when you add any weapon that needs ammo. All my ammo based lights, have a very hard time making it to the end of a match with any ammo left.. And that is with me, trying to conserve. Run up against a large assault, and you can dump your entire ammo load before the thing is dead. Commando verse dire! Where as all the energy boats, have no issue, and can rack up 1000-1200 damage... My SRM commando, cant put out more than 600 for the most part before it is out, and your down to 1 or 2 lasers. Other ammo based lights have the exact same problem.


Let alone CW, outside of a cicada, which isn't even a light, i would just not run any light that needed ammo.


My thoughts are entirely about IS... I never played anything clan side.

This. Commandos and Locusts have almost no reason to use missiles AT ALL due to tonnage concerns. The launchers are heavy enough as it is!

[Kjudoon]

Lrms in small quantity are bad because of AMS. Nothing more. Fix AMS and you give mechs with 10 tubes or less a lot of reason to pack them.

Ams isnt broken you say?

It can shoot through anything without damage for it is not affected by terrain and can target missiles not aimed at the ams bearer.

Eliminate these two broken features and you fix this sizable flaw in the game.
But.... Lrms on a light CAN be fun and effective.

http://youtu.be/iffLrluf2n4

[Lynx7725]

In the context of MWO, LRM lights doesn't quite make sense, because it's really a free-for-all tonnage fest and in general, LRMs get more effective as you boat up. This means heavier LRM boats have a bigger impact in game. The exception cases are usually because of quirks, such as the Hunchback-J.

In the context of Btech as a whole, LRM lights make sense because of unit structure and mech availability. Mech chassis such as the Valkyrie makes sense because there exist a role for it -- a light fire support mech for a light Mech company. In such cases, with more open warfare and light pack tactics in mind, light LRM boats have a place.

Because in MWO we play almost always a heavy mech company with very high intensity conflict in mind, light LRMs aren't actually a good fit. The closest we have is in Conquest mode, where combatants are more spread out. When it comes to heavy scrums though, the light LRM's boat's small throw weight, throw rate and ammo constraints usually work against it.

The good news is that future CW expansions, particularly the 4-vs-4 setup, may encourage such builds, mostly because of the sparsity of combatants.

[Chuck Jager]

I will never support any weapon system that allows folks to hide and get reputable damage. I never have any problems with folks that have high mounted lrms and stay close to the main body while taking turns in the rotation with their direct damage.

[Kjudoon]

Or limited tonnage for those drops. You darn well know that if allowed we will see steiner scout lances of 4 assaults if they are allowed. But if you cap the 4 man drop deck at 160 total tons it would be much better.

That said ams still needs to be made to protect only the mech it is mounted on or dramatically decrease effectivness for all allied mechs.

[Lynx7725]

Kjudoon, on 13 December 2015 - 08:53 PM, said:

Or limited tonnage for those drops. You darn well know that if allowed we will see steiner scout lances of 4 assaults if they are allowed. But if you cap the 4 man drop deck at 160 total tons it would be much better.

That's another way to do it, but in Solo PUG? That should splits the online player pool. In theory, with bigger Steam base, that's now possible, but for how long?

[Davegt27]

Ragingdemon, on 13 December 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

As I'm sure most of you know if you take LRM's on a light mech they really don't have a roll, because of the tonnage, face time, ammo, maintaining target lock, etc. more so for IS mechs than clan. But I had an pretty rough idea to make LRM's more viable but not exploitable.

P.s. This is to just get the idea across.

For starters lets say we have a Raven who wants to run missiles. Typically light mechs just want to poke, move, poke, while exposing your self as little as possible so I propose LRM weapon specific quirks unique to weight class and variant.

So the Raven decides to run ML and 2 LRM 5's, to make LRM's not dead weight allow light mechs to fire LRM's without having to maintain your cursor on the box.

This change could also be applicable to higher weight class mechs(especially the missile variants) but to avoid another LRM apocalypse this new target retention is primarily for light mechs.

Please feel free to add to this idea because I would love to see light mechs be viable with LRM builds!

TL;DR Allow Lights and missile variant mechs to fire without maintaining your cursor on a target.

My Raven 3L has LRMs and MLs been that way since I bought it
It allowed me to cover the assaults with ECM but still do something, I could also open any gate in CW (before they got nerfed)

Anyway don't tell anyone I have LRMs on my Raven ha ha

[Fox With A Shotgun]

Davegt27, on 13 December 2015 - 09:32 PM, said:

My Raven 3L has LRMs and MLs been that way since I bought it
It allowed me to cover the assaults with ECM but still do something, I could also open any gate in CW (before they got nerfed)

Anyway don't tell anyone I have LRMs on my Raven ha ha

Lol you should try ASRM12 + 3SPL raven. It does amazing amounts of damage very quickly. Or if you really want to troll, LRM30 raven.

[Kjudoon]

Lynx the population will grow as long as pgi keeps addressing game design flaws and balance issues.

I have hope. That is why i keep circling.

[Novakaine]

I hereby deem this a total waste.

[Lykaon]

Ragingdemon, on 13 December 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

As I'm sure most of you know if you take LRM's on a light mech they really don't have a roll, because of the tonnage, face time, ammo, maintaining target lock, etc. more so for IS mechs than clan. But I had an pretty rough idea to make LRM's more viable but not exploitable.

P.s. This is to just get the idea across.

For starters lets say we have a Raven who wants to run missiles. Typically light mechs just want to poke, move, poke, while exposing your self as little as possible so I propose LRM weapon specific quirks unique to weight class and variant.

So the Raven decides to run ML and 2 LRM 5's, to make LRM's not dead weight allow light mechs to fire LRM's without having to maintain your cursor on the box.

This change could also be applicable to higher weight class mechs(especially the missile variants) but to avoid another LRM apocalypse this new target retention is primarily for light mechs.

Please feel free to add to this idea because I would love to see light mechs be viable with LRM builds!

TL;DR Allow Lights and missile variant mechs to fire without maintaining your cursor on a target.

I fail to see the reason for this and I also disagree that LRMs on lights are as useless as you think.

There are a few roles light mechs excel at.

Skirmisher and picket duty: moving quickly to the enemy's unprotected flanks or rear and/or exploiting manuvering errors (ie. lone assault mech vs 3 lights) Picket duty to prevent the enemy from doing the skirmishing.
Skirmishers also work well to delay enemy assets from ariving in time to have a sufficent impact on a battle.The light mech doesn't need to kill the enemy Kingcrab just make sure that by the time it arrives on scene it's teammates are down mechs in the fight.Skirmishers are also of use in assault game mode for threatening the enemy base forcing the enemy to repossition for base defense.

Recon/Spotter: These mechs are generally less armed than skirmishers and pack on more E-war options like ECM active probes NARC and TAG. The Recon/Spotter role is obviously locate the enemy report the enemy and if equiped for spotting (NARC or TAG) maintain locks for LRM support to hammer on critical targets.

And then we have specialty light builds like Raven 3Ls with ECM and two ER- Large Lasers. This mech is not an ideal skirmisher nor is it well equiped for recon or spotting.Mainly it's a hide and poke sniper.

And specialty builds is where the LRM light mech fits in. I am fond of an Oxide LRM 5 carrier (250 XL,10 DHS,Endo,Ferro,4x LRM5 6 tons LRM ammo) This mech I use for suppression and psycological warfare.Primarily I use indirect fire and try not to be spotted (so the enemy doesn't know it's just a jenner and not a larger LRM boat) and move fire move fire ...using the light mech speed and agility to repossition quickly giving the appearance of several LRM carriers.
When the enemy tries to figure out what of your mechs are where they will if you are successful trick them into counting 3+ LRM support mechs where there is only a single light. This should have them underestimating your actual direct fire line strength.
A secondary role for this LRM5 Oxide (and soon the Jenner IIc) is highly mobile fire support for your team's skirmishers. While your team's Arctic Cheetah or Firestarter/Wolfhounds etc are in a furball fight with the enemy light mechs your Oxide is raining in LRM support nearly asuring a victory in that fight fight because it's now 2 v 1 and one of those mechs doesn't need to even be in range of the enemy's weapons.

[MonkeyCheese]

Well I must just be crazy.

• My founders jenner has 2lrm5 4sl
  
• My Ravens go in and out of lrm phases
  
• My main CW kitfox permanantly has an lrm loadout
  
• I plan to run one of my upcoming IIC Jenners with lrms.
  
• I have played with lrms on my AC before.

Oh wait I am crazy but you know what? This kind of mechlab freedom is what makes this game FUN for me, always doing the "crazy" thing always being different.