64 replies to this topic

[Scanz]

group gost penalty for
LL - from 3 to 2
ML and SL - from 6 to 5
srm from 4 to 3

Edited by Scanz, 13 December 2015 - 11:51 PM.

[Jae Hyun Nakamura]

Isn't increase of TTK exactly what PGI did in the last patch?

[BlueAria]

They uped srms from 3 to 4 two weeks ago lol. All you would see is more 2 LPL 3-4 ML builds. My sulotion to reducing your TTD is that you need to gut gud if you really want to play a game where you can tank 12 opponents go play MW4 on easy if you are positioned well, moving and twisting ttk is fine

[El Bandito]

1. I want 8v8 for Solo-Q. Insta TTK increase.

2.

El Bandito, on 13 December 2015 - 07:04 PM, said:

IMO quirks should be only used to bring up really underperforming mech up to par, such as Locusts, Mist Lynxes, Quickdraws, Summoners, etc... To do that we need to:

1. Remove all quirks.

2. Nerf the Timberwolf/Hellbringer/Ebon Jaguar to the same level as the best un-quirked IS Heavy, and nerf the Stormcrow to the same level as the best un-quirked IS Medium, and nerf the Cheetah to the same level as the best un-quirked IS Light. Same story with the Direwolf.

Only after that, can quirkening truly begin, since the power level bar has been dropped down enough to make truly ridiculous quirks unnecessary. Except for the 5V, maybe. TTK will benefit as well.

BlueAria, on 14 December 2015 - 12:38 AM, said:

They uped srms from 3 to 4 two weeks ago lol. All you would see is more 2 LPL 3-4 ML builds. My sulotion to reducing your TTD is that you need to gut gud if you really want to play a game where you can tank 12 opponents go play MW4 on easy if you are positioned well, moving and twisting ttk is fine

MW4 doesn't even have laser duration or Gauss charge. You can die in MW4 in two alphas from a single mech even piloting an Assault mech.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 December 2015 - 06:43 PM.

[Lily from animove]

30 heat

El Bandito, on 14 December 2015 - 12:47 AM, said:

MW4 doesn't even have laser duration or Gauss charge. You can die in MW4 in two alphas from a single mech even piloting an Assault mech.

or you alpha a Supernova Stock config in MW3 ending as one as well.

Edited by Lily from animove, 14 December 2015 - 02:04 AM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

How about a hard limitation instead. Ghost heat is a minor annoyance to vets but it's not exactly newbie friendly (remember when the nova prime was a trial mech for like 2 days and newbies were exploding themselves left and right?) and it doesn't do a great job of reducing TTK.

Personally I'd rather have an available engine power bar and have moving, JJ, energy weapons, ECM, BAP, and guass take up a portion of it. It'd be simple to understand after a brief tutorial.

Plus having gauss drain power while it's cooling down would be a good replacement for the current idiotic charging mechanic.

[Revis Volek]

The answer to all these questions, issue and ailments lies in one remedy....

A TRUE HEAT SCALE!

With things like Mech speed and power decrease's at X%, Pilot gets blurred and tunnel vision at X%, Pilots starts to black out and loose awareness and mech takes internal dmg at X% (preferably right before a shut down to discourage riding the caps). THEN at shutdown the mech has a 25% chance to blow a random component, or weapon, or ammo....when it come back on. Maybe a random screen doesnt work or your arm is wonky for a few mins after forced power up from shutdown. I always thought a drooping effect like the arms are not staying up for the first 30-40 seconds. Signify a FATIGUED mech and pilot.

So overheating has a major drawback, mainly trashing your ride. This also would discourage alpha spam a bit other then from cool mechs or mech that take the time to cool off before shooting again which in turn creates a rise in TTK and a loss of DPS but the mech builds and alphas dont change.

Narcissistic Martyr, on 14 December 2015 - 02:07 AM, said:

How about a hard limitation instead. Ghost heat is a minor annoyance to vets but it's not exactly newbie friendly (remember when the nova prime was a trial mech for like 2 days and newbies were exploding themselves left and right?) and it doesn't do a great job of reducing TTK.

Personally I'd rather have an available engine power bar and have moving, JJ, energy weapons, ECM, BAP, and guass take up a portion of it. It'd be simple to understand after a brief tutorial.

Plus having gauss drain power while it's cooling down would be a good replacement for the current idiotic charging mechanic.

Having a Bar along with a heat threshold would be in intersting take on it...i kinda like that idea. Stick each weapons to a set value of POWER CONSUMPTION and let it calculate it just like it does in the mech lab. Make a limit for energy boats like 6 er smalls or 4 mediums and throw ghost heat out.

Edited by DarthRevis, 14 December 2015 - 02:17 AM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

DarthRevis, on 14 December 2015 - 02:13 AM, said:

The answer to all these questions, issue and ailments lies in one remedy....

A TRUE HEAT SCALE!

With things like Mech speed and power decrease's at X%, Pilot gets blurred and tunnel vision at X%, Pilots starts to black out and loose awareness and mech takes internal dmg at X% (preferably right before a shut down to discourage riding the caps). THEN at shutdown the mech has a 25% chance to blow a random component, or weapon, or ammo....when it come back on. Maybe a random screen doesnt work or your arm is wonky for a few mins after forced power up from shutdown. I always thought a drooping effect like the arms are not staying up for the first 30-40 seconds. Signify a FATIGUED mech and pilot.

So overheating has a major drawback, mainly trashing your ride. This also would discourage alpha spam a bit other then from cool mechs or mech that take the time to cool off before shooting again which in turn creates a rise in TTK and a loss of DPS but the mech builds and alphas dont change.




Having a Bar along with a heat threshold would be in intersting take on it...i kinda like that idea. Stick each weapons to a set value of POWER CONSUMPTION and let it calculate it just like it does in the mech lab. Make a limit for energy boats like 6 er smalls or 4 mediums and throw ghost heat out.

Yup, have all the weapons have a single value of energy drain per weapon type and have mechs quirked with more or less energy capacity.

[totgeboren]

Scanz, on 13 December 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

group gost penalty for
LL - from 3 to 2
ML and SL - from 6 to 5
srm from 4 to 3

So basically go back to how it was like 2 patches ago? I like this better, though the game could perhaps benefit from a reduction in max heat.

I dunno, the challenge is to make a system that discourages big alphas while still feeling intuitive and thus easy for new players to understand.

I have been playing a hex-AC2 KCG a bit this weekend, and there you have an intuitive system. Fire all 6 and you get a better alpha, but if you stagger-fire (I fire them in pairs) you get a better suppressive effect. I have been switching it up quite a bit depending on the speed of the one I'm shooting at. When I shot at big slow targets, I want to stagger fire so as to suppress them a bit.
This is intuitive. No difference in heat generated, but benefits and drawbacks to each fire mode (though I don't use the chain-fire mechanism, just 3 buttons on my mouse).

[BlueAria]

El Bandito, on 14 December 2015 - 12:47 AM, said:

MW4 doesn't even have laser duration or Gauss charge. You can die in MW4 in two alphas from a single mech even piloting an Assault mech.

On easy, not MW4 multiplayer, MW4 on the lowest difficulty when you can walkaround 8-12 enemy assault mechs at 20 kph and they will miss every shot and you are so cool and the best mechwarrior ever, TTK is super low that way but it gets much lower then try to 1 v 12 real players

An atlas has about 190 ct "hp" if you walk in front of just half the enemy team they need to deal 30ish damage each to you ct to kill you. If an ac 20 deals 20 damage how do you suggest we prevent that massive massive 35 point alpha? Only able to fire oneweapon at a time and all weapons have a shared 15 second cooldown? So now you scrubs who wonder out in to 12 enemy mech... still get instagibed by 12 ac 20s because its the games fault you dont use cover commnication and over commit at the first glimps of a red dorito

[adamts01]

Jae Hyun Nakamura, on 13 December 2015 - 11:52 PM, said:

Isn't increase of TTK exactly what PGI did in the last patch?

Not really. My try hard timby has even higher dps now, with the increased cooling. I find it just as leathal, if not more so.

DarthRevis, on 14 December 2015 - 02:13 AM, said:

A TRUE HEAT SCALE!

Make a limit for energy boats like 6 er smalls or 4 mediums and throw ghost heat out.

Your true heat scale doesn't fix everything, you still need to include your weapon limit..... And how is a weapon limit that different from ghost heat? They both, more or less, put a cap on what you can bring. Ghost heat just makes it a grey area and leaves room for customization.

[Lily from animove]

adamts01, on 14 December 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:

Not really. My try hard timby has even higher dps now, with the increased cooling. I find it just as leathal, if not more so.



Your true heat scale doesn't fix everything, you still need to include your weapon limit..... And how is a weapon limit that different from ghost heat? They both, more or less, put a cap on what you can bring. Ghost heat just makes it a grey area and leaves room for customization.

you don't need a weapon limit when heat limits the usage of wepaons. All extra wepaons will then just be alternates for different situations or backup weapons in case you lose some.

Edited by Lily from animove, 14 December 2015 - 04:17 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

Edited by Alistair Winter, 14 December 2015 - 04:29 AM.

[Scanz]

additional need reduce mech

efficiency below 80% heat (like in MW3 and MW4)

[Davegt27]

I hate the word nerf and I am sick of all the nerf this or that

How about we buff all mechs CT by 5% other parts 2.5%

[Johnny Z]

Scanz, on 13 December 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

group gost penalty for
LL - from 3 to 2
ML and SL - from 6 to 5
srm from 4 to 3

I agree. Why have ghost heat all over the map. Why not have ghost heat/heat scale start at 30 damage. Anything above gets a massive heat spike. If its a set number us players can understand it easier, which is the major complaint about ghost heat anyway, and it will make high alpha builds a little more pricey in the heat department.

The higher above 30 damage the alpha, the larger the penalty. Then the balance guys can screw with how heavy the penalty scales when above 30 damage for a while.

This 30 cap could be dependant on chassis weight class, higher or lower, as well as the heat scale increase above 30.

Light 20 damage
Medium 25 damage
Heavy 30 damage
Assault 35 damage

Heat doubles above heat scale ceiling, then doubles again every 5 points above that. Numbers subject to adjustment.

Problem solved topic closed.

Edited by Johnny Z, 14 December 2015 - 04:55 AM.

[Antares102]

Crazy idea incoming:
How about reducing ALL damage values by 80%?
AC5 would do only 1 damage then.
And please dont give me the lore argument. Many weapons including lasers and SRM already have their damage values fidled with.

Edited by Antares102, 14 December 2015 - 04:48 AM.

[adamts01]

Antares102, on 14 December 2015 - 04:48 AM, said:

Crazy idea incoming:
How about reducing ALL damage values by 80%?

You're right. Those pesky flamers are OP. NERF!!!

[Lily from animove]

Johnny Z, on 14 December 2015 - 04:40 AM, said:

I agree. Why have ghost heat all over the map. Why not have ghost heat/heat scale start at 30 damage. Anything above gets a massive heat spike. If its a set number us players can understand it easier, which is the major complaint about ghost heat anyway, and it will make high alpha builds a little more pricey in the heat department.

The higher above 30 damage the alpha, the larger the penalty. Then the balance guys can screw with how heavy the penalty scales when above 30 damage for a while.

This 30 cap could be dependant on chassis weight class, higher or lower, as well as the heat scale increase above 30.

Light 20 damage
Medium 25 damage
Heavy 30 damage
Assault 35 damage

Heat doubles above heat scale ceiling, then doubles again every 5 points above that. Numbers subject to adjustment.

Problem solved topic closed.

why would we want to start ghostheating anything instead of just reducing the heatscale? The reason we have ghostheta is that the heatscale is to high. reduce the heatscale and there wouldn't be a need anymore for 40 different ghostheat combinations. Don't make the system more complicated if you can achieve the same with a simpler system.

[GorlockTheDestroyer]

Ghost heat in its current values work best on paper.
How the idea of ghost heat was implemented in this game, dosent work.

1: Lower heat cap significantly.
2: Increase heatsink(true/poor) dissipation.

Doing these two alone makes when to alpha strikes important. I walk around every game dropping 50pt alphas on people 2 or 3 times. The alpha strike has no value, its lost its importance.
The increased dissipation helps in brawling situations. This may also serve to move the meta farther from range warfare. Though for better or worse, range, has been addressed by the last patch. Even if heavy handed in the case of the GR.

In the end though. This community will cling to ideas that PGI is bound to screw up. Clear as day they lack the ability to do things like convergence or bloom. You all will still cry for these daydream fixes. Rather than choose to put a unified voice behind what might actually work, lets hang out hats on something the devs seem not capable to do.