74 replies to this topic

[irony1999]

What Ovid confirms is that they are on par with every other F2P that is rife with cheaters and griefers. Battlefield Heroes for example, has server side processing, but is still rife with aimbots, chams, and every other client side exploit you could think of.

Only thing that makes it better here is the limited movement/aim speed. But to stop cheats requires vigilence and reaching out to the community. I hope the team is ready for the onslaught.

Edited by irony1999, 12 July 2012 - 03:27 AM.

[Min0taur]

Diablo 3 also adopted a server-authoritative model, and we've all seen how bad it turns out...

I really hope Devs know what they're doing... Last thing I want to see is lags and rubberbanding while playing...

[MoxVoid]

Shazbawt, on 11 July 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

Ur joking right? Bioware couldn't keep up with the exploits and would eventually patch them well after the damage was done. I never got banned for exploiting the hell out of that game.

Glad to know we have some hackers in our midst... Not to bright pal...

[PewPew]

This just in: Person financially invested in game tells consumers the game is good!

[ChargerIIC]

Tokimonatakanimekat, on 12 July 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

Here, have something slimy:


That's similar to tolerating worthy opponent, who is hard, but enjoyable to beat.

Also, you know, games are like the ecosystem, and cheaters are part of it and their existence (if controlled enough) which even helps game to improve.

I'm not certain if your trolling or ignorant, but I want to think about your last sentence there. A dev team has resources they can spend on improving the game or preventing cheaters - the more work exploiters do, the more work the devs have to do to counter them, the less developer resources are available for improving the quality of the game.

I understand that you are probably 12 and living at home, but rest assured that most of these 'glorious hackers' you dream about are 30+, living at home, and have failed to contribute anything to a society they are dedicated to taking away from. A good programmer leaves the digital world a better place than he found it, a bad one just cries for attention with a client bot.

[Terror Teddy]

GOOD!

[OICU812]

Tokimonatakanimekat, on 12 July 2012 - 01:44 AM, said:

If you want to see a real hackers dream - try APB:Reloaded. Ever since it was closed beta as original APB years ago till new APB:R it was literally swarming with cheaters because devs didn't gave any damn about it.

So, I'd say, the only working anti-cheat "device" is developers, who really care for their games.

Also WoT have a very small amount of cheaters (because of almost full server-sided calculations and how brutal devs are dealing with suspects - you likely to get banned if someone from enemy team reports you as cheater for good performance in match)

They were warned well in to early BETA what was going to happen with the UT engine. They thought they knew better and I reminded them of it after it went live.

Some companies never learn.....

[Grajo]

DraigUK, on 11 July 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

<[PGI]Omid> At the outset we took a hard line against cheating - we figure an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure
[22:42] <[PGI]Omid> to that end we've adopted a server-authoritative model (as opposed to the client-authoritative model CryEngine uses), which has involved many changes to the net code
[22:42] <[PGI]Omid> What all this means is that regardless of what cheating tools a hacker employs, we can ensure they'll never be able to turn their torso faster than the proper rate, or move/accelerate faster than a legitimate player can
[22:43] <[PGI]Omid> This is pretty huge for a free to play game, and has definitely been one of the more challenging aspects since it didn't come engine-supported
[22:43] <[PGI]Omid> Sorry if that answer as a bit technical

I love to hear this, I think the cheaters stuff should be deal with in the best way the devs can.

[Tokimonatakanimekat]

ChargerIIC, on 12 July 2012 - 04:53 AM, said:

I'm not certain if your trolling or ignorant, but I want to think about your last sentence there. A dev team has resources they can spend on improving the game or preventing cheaters - the more work exploiters do, the more work the devs have to do to counter them, the less developer resources are available for improving the quality of the game.

Cheaters don't make "holes" in the game - they use already existing ones. Normal users are unaware of them because they never go above their client capabilities to interact with game. Once cheater get caught, devs normally would like to seal the hole he was using, thus improving the game code, which leads to data security, stability, better performance and game quality.

Quote

I understand that you are probably 12 and living at home, but rest assured that most of these 'glorious hackers' you dream about are 30+, living at home, and have failed to contribute anything to a society they are dedicated to taking away from. A good programmer leaves the digital world a better place than he found it, a bad one just cries for attention with a client bot.

Dude, I am 20 and where the heck should I live then? On the street heating pipes or in the tree? Your ad hominem is ridiculous.
You surely don't know how programmers like to mess with each other creations sometimes. I bet any of today's most notable programmers had their hands in hacking at least once.
Also, the youngest one I know is currently 21 and already got red diploma. Others are in range of 22-28 and have a life I can only dream of. But don't worry, none of them gives a damn about MWO.

OICU812, on 12 July 2012 - 04:58 AM, said:

They were warned well in to early BETA what was going to happen with the UT engine. They thought they knew better and I reminded them of it after it went live.

Some companies never learn.....

Well, I liked old APB beta more than APB: Reloaded.

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

So no flying Daishi's?

Who remembers that one? Good grief that was terrible

[BigJim]

Steelo, on 11 July 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

better than misunderestimating

First G-Dub quote of the day! Now I can have my coffee.





Look, I'm not gonna sit here and condone cheaters in any way - I've studied programming in a few languages & while it's never occurred to me in all my born days to try & turn that to cheating/haxxing/exploits, I also don't like some of the ott knee-jerk over-reactions I'm seeing here.

There is no reason to come out & call someone scum just because he can see the ingenuity behind some of the more elegant uses of haxxing skills.

Doesn't mean he likes it per-se.
A general might lose half his army to a particularly brutal tactic that no-one though of before, and admire the enemy for their ingenuity - But that doesn't mean he won't carpet bomb their country when the times comes (over melodramatic example to illustrate the point)


Do a google for Shodan (not the AI from sys shock 2) which finds exploits & massive vulnerabilities in real life systems such as power stations, hydro-dams, and all those lovely tower-blocks that people live in. And then s*** yourself at the possibilities.
B*gger your computer games, consider what can happen if actual evil people (al-Qa'ida script-kiddies?) start messing around with those systems because no-one wanted to be called scum on the internet & so never explored the possibilities.

Leaving 14yr old script-kiddies aside, the same kind of intelligent haxxers that are being talked about here are often the ones that find holes in important real life systems & lead to them being closed (if the companies involved can be bothered to act & lose a % of share price), so just because you have the skill to do a thing doesn't automatically make you evil.

Like all of life, it's what you do with your power that counts, and I'd rather have a handful of people who are semi-honourable & come forward with exploits so they can be dealt with than an army of Dev-lead stormtroopers who deny anything can go wrong with their creation & leave massive holes open for the aforementioned script kiddies to fill with their game-ruining exploits.

Does that make sense?


*EDIT* In the interest of fairness I'll add - Sorry if I come across as mardy here, I' not trying to come across as confrontational; But I just don't like the shutting down of conversation in any walk of life. If a thing exits, it's worth exploring, if for no other reason than if you don't, someone nastier than you will.

Edited by BigJim, 12 July 2012 - 06:11 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

DraigUK, on 11 July 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

[22:42] <[PGI]Omid> to that end we've adopted a server-authoritative model (as opposed to the client-authoritative model CryEngine uses), which has involved many changes to the net code

Seriously Crytek, you haven't learned your lesson YET. I stopped playing Crysis 1 because the cheating was incredibly rampant. When the client runs what is acceptable in the match, anything goes.

Now fast forward and we are at CryEngine 3 and we are STILL doing this. Uggghh. Thanks PGI for ditching that mess of a model.

BTW, I like how Rockstar is handling their cheaters in Max Payne 3. Basically people caught cheating are taken out of the general game population and are put in a Cheaters lobby. Now cheaters can only play against cheaters. Not something entirely practical for this game, but funny none the less.

[Reoh]

PGI you're making me blush, I think I'm in love. <3

[fluffypinkbunny]

MoxVoid, on 12 July 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

Glad to know we have some hackers in our midst... Not to bright pal...

I highly doubt anybody actually thinks there ARENT any hackers. As far as tor goes, I did my best to report issues, when they showed up, even in beta we pointed out how pwople were hacking and wht they were doing. the Devs responded with , They are exploiting parts of the game we intend. We'll look into it, to see if this is going to far. Oh they can get into the base, ok we'll allow this. Oh you're republic, we don't care about you.

[Hellya]

Nih, on 11 July 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

I can vouch for WoT, which uses tons of server side checks for EVERYTHING, and I personally, have never seen a "hack", nor has anyone I know.

Not to be confused with tank skins, who some people get custom tank skins to allow them to better see weak spots in armor and ammo rack locations and such, but this is actually ok'd behavior, since it doesn't provide any unfair advantage a little personal knowledge doesn't even up. Plus it's hard to enforce otherwise. That's not considered a "hack", rather, just a allowed modification.

So yea, heavy server side authentication, although it certainly slows the pace of the game down, is an amazing tool to combat all forms of hacks. If it's server side authenticated, you really can't mess with it.

So, so true. I enjoy Tanks because the hacking appears to be none existent.

I hope they follow the best thing WoT's ever did for the F2P game market. Despite the games many flaws I still enjoy it to say Tribes Ascension and it's hacker/scriptkiddie riddled game.

Min0taur, on 12 July 2012 - 03:35 AM, said:

Diablo 3 also adopted a server-authoritative model, and we've all seen how bad it turns out...

I really hope Devs know what they're doing... Last thing I want to see is lags and rubberbanding while playing...

You playing on a 56k modem or something?