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Hiding Debate Solved


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#61 Not A Real RAbbi

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 05:41 AM

View Postmark v92, on 16 December 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

I saw a lot of discussions in the past about hiding being 'illigal' or not. Guess thats solved now.

Directly from the code of conduct:

Shutting Down your ‘Mech or avoiding engagements with the enemy, and when doing so might be considered non-participation

All pilots have access to a Shutdown command for their ‘Mechs, mapped by default to the ‘P’ key and listed as ‘Toggle Power’ in the keyboard menu.
The primary benefit to shutting down your ‘Mech is that it will no longer appear on enemy radar. In the deciding moments of a close match with few ‘Mechs left standing on the battlefield, effective use of the shutdown mechanic and/or evasion tactics has the potential to provide you with the following benefits:
  • Breaking a target lock
  • Appearing ‘heat neutral’ on maps where Thermal Vision might commonly be used
  • Presenting on opportunity for staging an ambush
  • Evading detection long enough to secure a win through Conquest points
  • Evading detection long enough to secure a timer expiration win when you have superior numbers, in circumstances where you may be too critically damaged to otherwise risk a direct engagement with the enemy
The above situations are considered to be within the scope of what the shutdown mechanic or evasion tactics are intended to be used for.


There are situations that do not fall within the scope of what the shutdown mechanic or evasion tactics are intended for. The use of the shutdown mechanic or avoiding contact with the enemy under the following situations may be classed as an act of non-participation, subject to evaluation and moderation actions by Support services:
  • Ceasing to meaningfully contribute for the remainder of the match if you still have support equipment, useful modules, or weapons (with any necessary ammo) available. Losing your primary weapon is not an acceptable excuse for hiding and/or shutting down if you still have a secondary weapon, a support-based item such as a TAG, or a consumable module available for use.
  • Running out the clock, or needlessly extending the duration of the match, in cases where doing so will not assist you towards victory.
  • Running out the clock or needlessly extending the duration of a Faction Play match in an attempt to keep a particular group or Unit in the current engagement for as long as possible, in cases where doing so will not assist you towards victory, is not considered an acceptable tactic.
Disliking a map or game mode or attempting to preserve a player statistic such as Kill/Death Ratio are not acceptable excuses for non-participation.



Cool.

I'd ask that y'all DO pay attention before reporting someone, though.

Had a teammate, last of us against 3-6 of THEM, on HPG, in an Atlas with NO weapons left at all, red CT. Put his nose in the corner and shut down. Oh, the butthurt rage that ensued. SO many "reporting" comments in the in-game chat (can I turn THAT off, too?). Lots of inappropriate, abusive language followed as well, which, ironically (isn't it?), led to some reporting with the existing in-game tool...

On a slightly-related aside: Spectated some guys tearing-apart a disco, that was the opponents' last mech. METHODICALLY. They shared the damage take, cutting off ONE leg, then one arm, then the other, and then CAREFULLY slicing armor off the other leg and torsos, squeezing it like a ShamWow for every precious drop of damage... Beautiful...

#62 VinJade

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 08:38 AM

@TR I remember just sitting out the rest of the game once, managed to limp off and hide, no weapons & no arms, half a torso, and one leg and when someone told me to hurry up and die I just powered down to spite them and then started to work on a new mech to be posted on S7.

oh the hell storm I got from that during the last five minutes of the game, point of story don't p*** off the last remaining player.

the game is meant to be fun and enjoyable but it seems many just are butt hurt because they have to 'wait'.. oh wait no they don't they can leave and join another game while the other one is finishing up.

as to their rules they need to do some clean up there such as removing tag, ecm, bap, things like uavs ect from 'usable' equipment as a reason not to hide.

other wise they don't know how TAG works as it deals no damage and only works if there are missiles on their side to utilize the tag.

#63 Mystere

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 08:50 AM

View PostMrMadguy, on 30 December 2015 - 03:18 AM, said:

I wanna ask PGI, what category of "NON-PARTICIPATION" menu should I use to report hiding players? Currently we have "SUICIDING", "AFK" and "DISCONNECTING". But hiding player isn't falling under any of this categories. What should I do to report him?


Nothing, precisely because it is not one of the options. What makes people think that "omission" was not deliberate on PGI's side? Posted Image

#64 Sader325

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 08:51 AM

Quote

Running out the clock or needlessly extending the duration of a Faction Play match in an attempt to keep a particular group or Unit in the current engagement for as long as possible, in cases where doing so will not assist you towards victory, is not considered an acceptable tactic.



What do you consider victory?

Because I consider occupying a unit on a planet sector to protect other planet sectors in order to maintain control of the planet as a way of assisting towards victory.

#65 Mystere

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 08:56 AM

View PostSader325, on 30 December 2015 - 08:51 AM, said:

What do you consider victory?

Because I consider occupying a unit on a planet sector to protect other planet sectors in order to maintain control of the planet as a way of assisting towards victory.


Precisely.

What in Hades' name did people think Leonidas and his 300 Spartans were doing if not delaying the enemy?

#66 VinJade

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 09:20 AM

as to the faction on faction running out of clock thing we see it in lore where survivors fled and hid so they could make what repairs they could and then go on light raiding missions to secure resources and repair parts to fix their machine.

so hiding is a sound tactic regardless if people like it or not.

#67 adamts01

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 10:42 AM

View PostTheRAbbi, on 30 December 2015 - 05:41 AM, said:

I'd ask that y'all DO pay attention before reporting someone, though.

Had a teammate, last of us against 3-6 of THEM, on HPG, in an Atlas with NO weapons left at all, red CT. Put his nose in the corner and shut down.

Mechs without weapons can still be spotters, distractions and shields. There is zero excuse to hide unless you're trying to win by points.

View PostVinJade, on 30 December 2015 - 09:20 AM, said:

as to the faction on faction running out of clock thing we see it in lore where survivors fled and hid so they could make what repairs they could and then go on light raiding missions to secure resources and repair parts to fix their machine.

so hiding is a sound tactic regardless if people like it or not.

.....Except you can't make repairs, go on raiding missions, repair parts or fix your machine..... This has absolutely ZERO relevance to this shell of a Mechwarrior game.

#68 Almond Brown

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 10:43 AM

Why would "hiding" late in a match be considered any worse, given I see boatloads of Mechs early in Matches, with 100% armor and fully active weapon load-outs actively hiding... Sure they may peek and sometimes even poke, but they are nonetheless, by definition, "hiding" from the enemy... Is it just a timing thing? ;)

P.S. The CoC appears to state "useful" modules/gear. A TAG is not "useful" when no missiles are present so gets an exemption at that point. Holy nitpicking, sans lack of actual rational thought.

#69 adamts01

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 10:51 AM

View PostAlmond Brown, on 30 December 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

Why would "hiding" late in a match be considered any worse, given I see boatloads of Mechs early in Matches, with 100% armor and fully active weapon load-outs actively hiding... Sure they may peek and sometimes even poke, but they are nonetheless, by definition, "hiding" from the enemy... Is it just a timing thing? Posted Image

P.S. The CoC appears to state "useful" modules/gear. A TAG is not "useful" when no missiles are present so gets an exemption at that point. Holy nitpicking, sans lack of actual rational thought.

Tag might not be useful, but eyes on the battlefield are.

I'm not arguing that hiding because you have no guns is against the current rules, just that it makes you a ***** that won't do everything you can to help secure the win.

#70 Mystere

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 11:00 AM

View Postadamts01, on 30 December 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

....Except you can't make repairs, go on raiding missions, repair parts or fix your machine..... This has absolutely ZERO relevance to this shell of a Mechwarrior game.


Then in Heaven's name fix this shell of a "minimally viable product".

View Postadamts01, on 30 December 2015 - 10:51 AM, said:

Tag might not be useful, but eyes on the battlefield are.

I'm not arguing that hiding because you have no guns is against the current rules, just that it makes you a ***** that won't do everything you can to help secure the win.


How useful would those eyes really be for the sole surviving player who has nothing else left other than TAG?

#71 VinJade

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 11:02 AM

Quote

Ceasing to meaningfully contribute for the remainder of the match if you still have support equipment, useful modules, or weapons (with any necessary ammo) available. Losing your primary weapon is not an acceptable excuse for hiding and/or shutting down if you still have a secondary weapon, a support-based item such as a TAG, or a consumable module available for use.


how is that nit picking?

If none of your fellow mechs have missiles due to the weapons being destroyed or out of ammo they still have a tag, however I didn't see anywhere that it said exemption from the rules.

they need to add it in then or else we will see people reporting them because of them having a still working supporting equipment.

As to Adamt, I was commenting on how some hate those for hiding, I was just comparing them to battle tactics that is all, nothing more.

after all those doing hit and runs are there to also help and try and keep some support for the faction that owned the world that the invading army is trying to or taken from the defenders.


or in this case trying to keep some points for their faction thus it is still a valid comment.. though I should have worded it better which was my mistake.

@ Mystere
it is no use trying to convince him, he is just one of those players that hate others for not killing themselves just to end the match quickly.

Edited by VinJade, 30 December 2015 - 11:05 AM.


#72 adamts01

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 11:02 AM

View PostMystere, on 30 December 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:


Then in Heaven's name fix this shell of a "minimally viable product".

All that stuff would be awesome. I'd love to have a huge, open-world MWO with r&r. But it is what it is, and his argument has zero relevance to what we have.

#73 adamts01

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 11:07 AM

View PostVinJade, on 30 December 2015 - 11:02 AM, said:

or in this case trying to keep some points for their faction thus it is still a valid comment.. though I should have worded it better which was my mistake.

OK. I see how dragging out a game to stall the next fight helps your faction, it's just completely lame. I was in a solo/group state of mind.

#74 adamts01

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 07:56 PM

View PostMystere, on 30 December 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:


How useful would those eyes really be for the sole surviving player who has nothing else left other than TAG?

In his example, an Atlas was hiding in a 3v6 situation, cored with no guns.





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