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House size, is bigger better?


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#41 metro

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 04:18 AM

View PostKyll Long, on 06 December 2011 - 01:46 PM, said:

Posted ImageKay Wolf, on 06 December 2011 - 06:40 PM, said:[/color]



I think one of House Liao's biggest advantages, and again this goes back to how the faction's players would act, is that the Capellan Confederation uses a lot of low-ball, low-intensity, sneaky, underhanded, back-alley alliances -go ahead and mark me up, again, Kyll, hehe- to get done what the larger states can do in the open. That's not actually a remark about the type of people who would be playing in House Liao -heck, I like Metro, Adridos, and Kyll-, not at all, but it is a reflection of how the House is written. Fortunate for them that, because of Romano Liao taking the throne in '36, and then again with her assassination and betrothal of Sun-Tzu to Isis Marik in '52, they have a good relationship with House Marik, because if the Federated Suns and Free World's League formed an alliance against the Confederation, they would only need to begin pushing on both sides, and House Liao would crumble like a biscuit in the sea.


Oh here I took THAT part as a compliment ;)[/color]




And to think Kay, I was going to ask you out to Chesterton, to see the new digs !!

^_^

Edited by Metro, 07 December 2011 - 04:18 AM.


#42 Dihm

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 04:44 AM

View PostMogCarns, on 06 December 2011 - 05:45 PM, said:

C- Clan tech is not nearly as overpowered as it was portrayed in the early novels. The major issue was that for reasons never really officially explained, the IS was still using 3025 tech despite the fact that upgraded gear was available for nearly thirty years. I have many scenario sourcebooks set in the late 3020s and early 3030s that made use of varying levels of tech, from new mechs to refits. Some of these are fairly elite units, but that still leaves some 15 to 20 years of catch up that was never done... including other elite units. Hell, the Marlette CMM has upgraded tech in 3044, but the 12th Donegal of Prince Victor fame (and to note, Victor/Galen themselves) are riding in 3025s come 3050. The primary issue was that those twenty years never really existed... In reality we "jumped" from the end of the 4th to the beginning of the clans with one "Twenty Year Update" sourcebook. We went from garrisoning a planet with a lance to needing a regiment overnight, and no one gave the first thought to where all those Mech suddenly came from, or why they were all built with Obsolete tech. It just wasn't THAT rare.


First: Clan tech weighs less, has better range, better efficiency (damage/heat), takes up fewer critical slots, and even the armor (ferro) is more effective per ton. All rolled in to one bundle. It's pretty overpowered, no way around it.

Second: I'm not sure if you're familiar with modern military procurement practices and weapon system life cycles, but things don't just change over that fast. It costs a LOT of money to change your entire military from 3025 (and earlier) mechs to new ones that are being developed. A lot of the new/recovered technology didn't come online (into production) until the early 40s. And that is for one specific faction, not the entire Inner Sphere. You've got to add in the delay it takes for that tech to proliferate. Don't forget, you have to add in the development time of new mechs as well as the deployment time. As you start filtering new tech mechs into your elite regiments, the older models get pushed out to the more green units, or new ones that are formed. They aren't mothballed, because they're still effective in the world of the Inner Sphere pre-clans. Plus, there are the family owned mechs, that are passed down from one generation to the next. Odds are that those pilots will keep their heirlooms, which they slowly retrofit as time (it isn't an easy process to refit a mech properly, you aren't going to see them upgraded from standard to endo steal structure for example) and money become available. I believe those folk tend to be more in the officer ranks if memory serves.

I'm not sure how you're saying that there was a huge 20 year non-existent period. It may have seemed that way when the 20-Year Update first came out, but there's been a LOT of fill in done in between that release and now in the lore.

Third: Why mechs were still produced with "obsolete tech". Because it was economical. Because not every manufacturer HAS access or the capability to produce the new tech. Because there are still buyers since the mechs are still effective. It takes a long time for the newfangled gadgetry to filter down and become common.

Lastly, a general comment: Don't forget everyone that we are specifically fighting over BORDER planets, according to the info we have. We won't be able to make a deep strike into opposing territory, or wipe them off the map. This will put a brake on how powerful a faction can be or how much their numbers will matter, since they can only reach a certain theoretical maximum in held territory.

Edited by Dihm, 07 December 2011 - 04:48 AM.


#43 Adridos

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 05:47 AM

View PostKay Wolf, on 06 December 2011 - 08:00 PM, said:

Yes, I absolutely do. I believe the devs are going in the right direction, I believe they've already thought of these things, but I still believe that Clanner players will skip, and I believe the devs may already understand this, and will allow players to take their stables with them.


Well it's easy to balance them at the start. No way a new recruit would get a Mad Cat, so the best mech and technologies will be still pretty scarce and, on the other hand, we will have a lot of income and big, skilled parties together, so we should be able to fight with them easily (at least in the start of the invasion, it will get interesting when they get the mechs they love). ^_^


P.S: Sorry for backstabbing you, but you know... ;)

#44 Threat Doc

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 07:39 AM

View PostMetro, on 07 December 2011 - 04:18 AM, said:

And to think Kay, I was going to ask you out to Chesterton, to see the new digs !! ^_^
Ahh, sorry Metro... I'm doing my hair I MEAN... I'm working on a force restructure, hehe. ;)

#45 Threat Doc

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 07:44 AM

Sorry for the quick post, but I missed this one, somehow...

View PostAdridos, on 07 December 2011 - 05:47 AM, said:

Well it's easy to balance them at the start. No way a new recruit would get a Mad Cat, so the best mech and technologies will be still pretty scarce and, on the other hand, we will have a lot of income and big, skilled parties together, so we should be able to fight with them easily (at least in the start of the invasion, it will get interesting when they get the mechs they love). ^_^


P.S: Sorry for backstabbing you, but you know... ;)
That's not a back stab, Adridos, that sounds like a solution. I like that.

#46 Adridos

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 07:53 AM

I meant the back stab from the lore. ;)

#47 metro

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 08:27 AM

View PostAdridos, on 07 December 2011 - 07:53 AM, said:

I meant the back stab from the lore. ^_^



Heh, no worries Addy! If I have my way with KAY, their unit will work for Liao, and they will LIKE IT ! ;)

#48 Haeso

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 08:52 AM

View PostDihm, on 07 December 2011 - 04:44 AM, said:

Lastly, a general comment: Don't forget everyone that we are specifically fighting over BORDER planets, according to the info we have. We won't be able to make a deep strike into opposing territory, or wipe them off the map. This will put a brake on how powerful a faction can be or how much their numbers will matter, since they can only reach a certain theoretical maximum in held territory.

If that ends up being the case, the conquest mode is going to be a joke. If you can't capture more than worthless border worlds that canonically were only meant to be a buffer/forward base because they usually held nothing of value other than strategically, what the hell is the point of even bothering? We have to be able to at the very least take their core worlds if not everything. Should be difficult sure, but it shouldn't be impossible.

#49 metro

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 09:51 AM

View PostHaeso, on 07 December 2011 - 08:52 AM, said:

If that ends up being the case, the conquest mode is going to be a joke. If you can't capture more than worthless border worlds that canonically were only meant to be a buffer/forward base because they usually held nothing of value other than strategically, what the hell is the point of even bothering? We have to be able to at the very least take their core worlds if not everything. Should be difficult sure, but it shouldn't be impossible.


Amen Sir. Another part of the whole 100% new MWO Innersphere experience that I think everyone is buzzing about. NO matter whether you are a warrior or a planner. ;)

Edited by Metro, 07 December 2011 - 09:51 AM.


#50 Cyttorak

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 10:02 AM

I would imagine that as you take control of new border worlds, you will be allowed to launch ops from them. That will increase the range of operations and how deep you can go into enemy territory.

View PostAdridos, on 07 December 2011 - 05:47 AM, said:


Well it's easy to balance them at the start. No way a new recruit would get a Mad Cat, so the best mech and technologies will be still pretty scarce and, on the other hand, we will have a lot of income and big, skilled parties together, so we should be able to fight with them easily (at least in the start of the invasion, it will get interesting when they get the mechs they love). ^_^


P.S: Sorry for backstabbing you, but you know... ;)


Clans may be just like the IS units: players will be able to pilot any chassis they want. However, clan mechs are almost all more mobile (making even heavies rather "scoutish" in their capabilities) than the IS mechs and they aren't known for having lots of IW equipment. So how the devs are going to make piloting a light clan mech attractive is a mystery to me.

#51 Haeso

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 10:05 AM

I'm going to go with "Battle Value". Once more I bring up the Puma costing as much as an atlas. Unless you want your Star to consist of two clan heavy/assaults and three spectators, you aren't going to be rolling around in too many clan Heavies. Either that or they do the Star Vs 2 lances.

#52 Havoc2

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 10:17 AM

View PostHaeso, on 07 December 2011 - 08:52 AM, said:

If that ends up being the case, the conquest mode is going to be a joke. If you can't capture more than worthless border worlds that canonically were only meant to be a buffer/forward base because they usually held nothing of value other than strategically, what the hell is the point of even bothering? We have to be able to at the very least take their core worlds if not everything. Should be difficult sure, but it shouldn't be impossible.


Expect the set up to be very MPBT:3025ish in that once you take the border world(s) you're attacking, attacks can be launched from there to the next world(s) on that border. In order for a homeworld to be taken, there would need to be a deep advancement into that house's controlled space and if the advance was cut off there would be no more new supplies/warriors/whatnot available until the chain was re-established.

Until the game is at least in closed beta, we're all speculating/hoping/fearing on how the game will play out.

Me, I don't care if the world never changes colour and all lobbies are 4v4, I'm excited to get back into a 'Mech after 10+ years of waiting for "The Next Game"

#53 Skwisgaar Skwigelf

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 10:23 AM

That would be my take on it as well, you can attack one world away but not "skip ahead" to occupied worlds deeper in enemy territory. As long as you keep taking worlds you get new launching points for new attacks.

#54 MogCarns

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 05:19 PM

I am serious... you pick a mech and press a red button that says battle.

A splash screen appears, detailing a list of teammates, enemies, and title at the top that says Caph. Congrats... Caph means the Jungle map. The 14 other people on your team you have never met before, and all of them go do their own thing. Two of them will start shooting each other.

The Conquest Map will be something 80% of the pop never look at.




I find it FAR more important that the other 14 people on my team are at least all FedCom. It is all too likely it will for 6 Fed Com, 3 Drac, 2 Marik, a Liao, 2 St Ives, and a FRR fighting 7 FedCom, 2 Drac, 3 Liao, a Marik, and two FRR. And NO ONE cares about the Conquest Map, because by winning that fight for your Fed Com brethern, you actually cost the FedCom state two victory points to the Dracs because your winning team had one more Drac and one fewer FedCom than the losing team.





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