78 replies to this topic

[adamts01]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 December 2015 - 09:02 AM, said:

Not quite true, the Crab is heavier than the Shadow Cat by 5 tons, it has no armor quirks, and its structure quirks are not that enormous, I think one variant has 12 to the STs but thats the biggest, most others are like 7 or something.

we've been over this, but. 16 on one ct. that's a lot when you're driving something small without too much dps

[cSand]

Khobai, on 18 December 2015 - 08:10 AM, said:

Um nobody puts more than like 5-10 armor on their rear torso unless theyre an idiot.

You put just enough to stop an arty strike from breaching your armor or to prevent machine guns from rattlling around in your internals getting crits. Thats all you need. The vast majority of your armor should ALWAYS be on the front of your mech or youre doing it wrong.

I run at minimum 14 on my heavies, 15 + on heavier ones


Call me what you want, I last a long time. I also possess this magical ability to not facetank everything, therefore not needing to front load all my armor. JUst twist it all off, mind you I play faster striker mechs usually so that's my choice. Added bonus, when some weiner like the OP comes up behind me and sprays lasers all over me wildly, I don't die instantly

Edited by cSand, 18 December 2015 - 09:18 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 December 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

Lol, top performing Clan mechs are still just fine. Maybe at a SLIGHT disadvantage in some situations, but you guys can handle that right? The IS handled being at more of an advantage for a while.

no, obviously he cant. Some folks, like him or Gyrok, can only take it when there clans are full tilt ezmode crutches, apparently, instead of only being slightly better, and still possessing the top mech in each weight class... and the top THREE mechs in the Heavy Weight Class.

SMH

[cSand]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 December 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

no, obviously he cant. Some folks, like him or Gyrok, can only take it when there clans are full tilt ezmode crutches, apparently, instead of only being slightly better, and still possessing the top mech in each weight class... and the top THREE mechs in the Heavy Weight Class.

SMH

I actualyl think balance is in a good place. Both sides have some, uh, stinkier chassis, to be sure.
But generally, here is the choice you make

GENERALLY SPEAKING (obviously not set in stone for every chassis)

Clam = bigger damage and range in exchange for extra heat and less durability

IS = less damage shorter range in exchange for higher durability and lower heat

Pick your playstyle and enjoy.

The whole IS vs Clan complaining fest (everyone's OP, right?) is stupid. Pilot skills over-powered. Most pilots, under-powered. Put some of these jackoffs in a 300 ton 100kph 4000pt alpha death box from hell and they'll still complain that the TBR is OP, or the Atlas has too much structure buffs, the minute someone manages to take them down

Edited by cSand, 18 December 2015 - 09:25 AM.

[NeoGenesis For Answer]

Coolant, on 18 December 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

I'm assuming the OP is a light pilot. Light pilots are supposed to scout, spot, relay information, support, not get within 50m of a mech. That's the problem with light pilots in MWO...they want to brawl. Your speed is for getting out of harm's way, but because of too much firepower afforded lights and structure quirks, or broken hitboxes on certain light mechs they want to take on heavies and assaults. How about instead of complaining that you can't take out a heavy or assault as easily as you want to, you go about doing what ur supposed to?

Im pretty sure you can click on my profile and figure out I'm not lol. My cw deck is two TBRs and 2SHCs. Keep in mind I'm not upset about some mechs having extra rear torso armor or armor in general. Its mechs with EXCESSIVE extra hp, like the black jack. The only Lights I own are the adders and I'm never bringing those into CW again more than likely.

Bishop Steiner, on 18 December 2015 - 08:53 AM, said:

I love to pìlot the Scat. Even if MASC is weak (needs the "snap to that the EXE gets). It's when it's time to fight that the honeymoon ends. And this is from a guy used to using a perennially underarmed Summoner Prime (stock!). It's just undergunned, period. Even a single pod with 4-6 e hardpoints, like the Nova, would allow a small amount of kick to complement either a bigger energy, or missiles, or ballistic. Yes, the lemmings will just slap as many SLs as possible on it.... I know, but fear of lemmings is no reason to keep baby in a corner.

I really like masc personally using the SHC as a sniper, leaving my TBRs as my heavy hitters. If theres one thing I'd love on my TBRs it'd be masc. I've juked out ACs, ppcs and forced lasers to not burrow into my ct completely.

On your other post, I don't have a problem with the crab. She's fast with an XL (never used it personally so I dont know specifics) and can easily pack more firepower and maneuverability than similar clan mechs (ratio wise).

Bishop Steiner, on 18 December 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

no, obviously he cant. Some folks, like him or Gyrok, can only take it when there clans are full tilt ezmode crutches, apparently, instead of only being slightly better, and still possessing the top mech in each weight class... and the top THREE mechs in the Heavy Weight Class.

SMH

The last thing I want is anyone to be easymode... I'd prefer if the structure HP was just plain straight up armor HP. That way people have a choice to be vulnerable in the back or extra tanky up front. I don't care if there are mechs with some back structure quirks but 28 points for example is excessive. (I'm not complaining about all the IS mechs just a select few)

[Bishop Steiner]

NeoGenesis For Answer, on 18 December 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

Im pretty sure you can click on my profile and figure out I'm not lol. My cw deck is two TBRs and 2SHCs. Keep in mind I'm not upset about some mechs having extra rear torso armor or armor in general. Its mechs with EXCESSIVE extra hp, like the black jack. The only Lights I own are the adders and I'm never bringing those into CW again more than likely.

I really like masc personally using the SHC as a sniper, leaving my TBRs as my heavy hitters. If theres one thing I'd love on my TBRs it'd be masc. I've juked out ACs, ppcs and forced lasers to not burrow into my ct completely.

On your other post, I don't have a problem with the crab. She's fast with an XL (never used it personally so I dont know specifics) and can easily pack more firepower and maneuverability than similar clan mechs (ratio wise).

yeah but that XL pops pretty easy (from the side it's ALL ST, so flank one and they are screwed) and unlike the Clan XL, once the ST goes, so do you. The only reason it outguns the SCAT is the scats uber limited hardpoints, really.

[NeoGenesis For Answer]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 December 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

yeah but that XL pops pretty easy (from the side it's ALL ST, so flank one and they are screwed) and unlike the Clan XL, once the ST goes, so do you. The only reason it outguns the SCAT is the scats uber limited hardpoints, really.

I'd honestly be fine if IS XL functioned like clan XL but thats just me maybe give it a higher speed penalty, but getting it outright destroyed is funny because I'll keep chugging as a stick with a ersl

Edited by NeoGenesis For Answer, 18 December 2015 - 09:39 AM.

[Aresye]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 December 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

Lol, top performing Clan mechs are still just fine. Maybe at a SLIGHT disadvantage in some situations, but you guys can handle that right? The IS handled being at more of an advantage for a while.

Because when PGI let's balance stay horrible for a long period of time it's only fair that players on the other end of the spectrum should deal with their own period of imbalance for an equal amount of time, right? Come on man, you're better than this. If there is an imbalance, it needs to be addressed as soon as possible.

What about the 1/2-3/4 of all Clan mechs that were never the top performers? It isn't like the MLX, IFR, or SHC were anything more than a slight nuisance already.

I think the OP touches on a good point in regards to the structure quirks. It takes away one of the few tactics light mechs had. It removes an element of skill to the buffed player, and in some cases (ex: Atlas) can now practically front load ALL their armor and still have ample time to turn around and blast a light mech that got the drop on them.

[Mcgral18]

NeoGenesis For Answer, on 18 December 2015 - 06:38 AM, said:

That could work, but armor (correct me if Im wrong) is better than structure as structure is more easily crit. So a lesser amount of armor quirk. The catapult for instance instead of 21 extra structure gets 10 extra armor to play with.

Structure isn't more easily crit, is simply is Crit, while Armour cannot be Crit.

Armour quirks are frontloaded, and do not affect Structure or Rear armour. (Full Body quirk being the exception, but that's scrapped).

Armour quirks are, generally, universally better. Leg Structure for example increases fall damage, while Armour does not.

Edited by Mcgral18, 18 December 2015 - 09:47 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

I run at minimum 14 on my heavies, 15 + on heavier ones


Call me what you want, I last a long time. I also possess this magical ability to not facetank everything, therefore not needing to front load all my armor. JUst twist it all off, mind you I play faster striker mechs usually so that's my choice. Added bonus, when some weiner like the OP comes up behind me and sprays lasers all over me wildly, I don't die instantly

You realize you die in the same number of alphas to the back regardless of whether you have 5 back armor or 15 back armor right? 10 armor simply doesnt make enough of a difference to help you survive an additional alpha.

75 ton timberwolf has 46 internal structure. So even with 15 back armor thats only 61 points of combined structure/armor. Regardless of whether you have 5 back armor or 15 back armor youre still dead in two alphas to the rear CT.

Thats why stacking back armor is entirely pointless. Its way better to put that armor on the front where it can actually help you survive an extra alpha and then be situationally aware enough that you just dont give your back to anyone.

My superpower is not letting anyone shoot me in the back in the first place. You will *never* get in my rear arc unless im in a situation where my teammates have failed miserably and im going to die irregardless. And even then ill usually back into a wall to prevent from being shot from behind.

Quote

I think the OP touches on a good point in regards to the structure quirks. It takes away one of the few tactics light mechs had

Not really. Theres still plenty of mechs that dont have excessive structure quirks. You dont have to shoot the ones with structure quirks. I dont go hunting Atlases in my arctic cheetah because thats dumb. Its called target priority. The first enemy you see is not always the best one to shoot at.

All structure quirks do is change how targets should be prioritized. For example, do I go after the fresh Atlas first or the fresh Jagermech? The Jager obviously because its dps is comparable to the Atlas' yet its significantly easier to kill.

And again the problem isnt that structure quirks exist. The problem is that the WRONG mechs have structure quirks. Like the long-range Blackjack getting massive structure quirks instead of the short-range Centurion. There is no sensible logic behind these structure quirks.

Edited by Khobai, 18 December 2015 - 10:07 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Aresye Kerensky, on 18 December 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

Because when PGI let's balance stay horrible for a long period of time it's only fair that players on the other end of the spectrum should deal with their own period of imbalance for an equal amount of time, right? Come on man, you're better than this. If there is an imbalance, it needs to be addressed as soon as possible.

What about the 1/2-3/4 of all Clan mechs that were never the top performers? It isn't like the MLX, IFR, or SHC were anything more than a slight nuisance already.

I think the OP touches on a good point in regards to the structure quirks. It takes away one of the few tactics light mechs had. It removes an element of skill to the buffed player, and in some cases (ex: Atlas) can now practically front load ALL their armor and still have ample time to turn around and blast a light mech that got the drop on them.

Hey I never said I supported imbalance. I just think it's silly that players will complain that their top tier mechs are underpowered when really they are some of the best mechs in the game, and then when they get balanced it's like some terrible thing.

I also said that the Clan mechs are at a disadvantage in some situations, which is implying that they have the advantage in other situations. I personally think balance is pretty good.

Btw, I put a 24 srms into the back of a Timber Wolf at point blank (almost no damage registered on the side torsos) and he didn't die. Structure quirks OP or.....?

Also, I raise your IFR, SHC, and MLX a Vindicator, Commando, and a Spider.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 18 December 2015 - 10:00 AM.

[VorpalAnvil]

El Bandito, on 18 December 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

That simply highlights just how much buff the IS mechs need to stand up against Clan mechs. It's PGI's fault for introducing Clan mechs in the first place. 3025 tech would have been better.

IS is OP now and it's the fault of clans. This is some genius "reasoning".

[Malagant]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 December 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

no, obviously he cant. Some folks, like him or Gyrok, can only take it when there clans are full tilt ezmode crutches, apparently, instead of only being slightly better, and still possessing the top mech in each weight class... and the top THREE mechs in the Heavy Weight Class.

SMH

No, you are absolutely right! I want Clan Machine Guns to be able to snipe from across the map and kill whatever I'm shooting at, whether or not I hit. Oh and it must be instant kill too, you know, just because...

[Khobai]

Quote

Btw, I put a 24 srms into the back of a Timber Wolf at point blank (almost no damage registered on the side torsos) and he didn't die. Structure quirks OP or.....?

1) Timberwolves dont get structure quirks AT ALL.

2) 24 SRMs only do 51.6 damage at best which is gonna spread out even at pointblank range because theyre SRMs.... Timberwolves have 46 internal structure alone plus however much back armor he had. No matter what its gonna take at least two of those alphas to backshot a timberwolf. Probably three due to poor hit reg on SRMs.

Edited by Khobai, 18 December 2015 - 10:14 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 18 December 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

1) Timberwolves dont get structure quirks.

2) 24 SRMs is only 51.6 damage which is gonna spread out because SRMs.... Timberwolves have 46 internal structure alone plus however much back armor he had. No matter what its gonna take at least two alphas to back shot a timberwolf.

1) Yeah, that was the point

2) As I said, it was point plank and almost no damage registered to the side torsos. I'm guessing maybe only 2 damage went to each rear ST. The major point of the comment was, a large alpha to the rear CT of a heavier mech isn't always going to be a kill shot, its not just the OP IS quirks.

[Bishop Steiner]

Malagant, on 18 December 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

No, you are absolutely right! I want Clan Machine Guns to be able to snipe from across the map and kill whatever I'm shooting at, whether or not I hit. Oh and it must be instant kill too, you know, just because...

sounds about right from some of your posts.... this isn't one of Gyrok's alt accounts, is it?

[cSand]

The IS just had it's full quirk pass.. I would think the clams will also get a treatment such as that, hopefully in the future? Maybe some of the sub par ones will be some buffology

[El Bandito]

VorpalAnvil, on 18 December 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

IS is OP now and it's the fault of clans. This is some genius "reasoning".

Of course it is the fault of the Clan introduction. If not for the Clans, IS mechs probably wouldn't have such extensive quirks in the first place. Quirks were introduced after Clan invasion.

[Almond Brown]

Crits aside, armor is 32 points per ton. The Crab, just becasue the OP mentions it, gets the following Structure buffs.

 ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (CT): 16.00   ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LT): 12.00   ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RT): 12.00   ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LA): 8.00   ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RA): 8.00   ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LL): 12.00   ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RL): 12.00 

Thus 16 + 12 + 12 + 8 + 8 + 12 + 12 = 2.5t of extra hit point based protection for a 50t Mech. That is substantial. Just saying.

Do Energy weapons do Critical damage to structure by default ?

[Malagant]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 December 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

sounds about right from some of your posts.... this isn't one of Gyrok's alt accounts, is it?

See, now you are just being an *******.