78 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Malagant, on 18 December 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

See, now you are just being an *******.

Well, that is true, lol.

Though it's for effect. No offense, but I feel your posts about how "OP THE INNER SPHERE IS AND PICKED ON US POOR CLANNERS ARE" to be extraordinarily melodramatic, and not supported by actual facts.

Which reminds me of Gyrok's posts (though I do appreciate the brevity of most of your posts, vs the congressional findings Gyrok liked to post). But yeah, there might be a little snark involved, not gonna lie.

[Aresye]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 December 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

Also, I raise your IFR, SHC, and MLX a Vindicator, Commando, and a Spider.

The IS has more chassis however. A single Clan dud means a substantially smaller percentage of usable mechs, which is why you rarely see anything other than the top Clan performers.

Edited by Aresye Kerensky, 18 December 2015 - 10:44 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

The IS has more chassis however. A single Clan dud means a substantially smaller percentage of usable mechs, which is why you rarely see anything other than the top Clan performers.

this. clans only have 17 mechs? 4 of which you cant buy with cbills yet.

and only like 4-5 of those are actually playable mechs. The other 12-13 suck.

and pgi in their infinite wisdom decided to nerf ALL clan mechs rather than just nerfing the top clan mechs... so now the bad clan mechs are even worse.

Edited by Khobai, 18 December 2015 - 12:02 PM.

[illudium Q 36]

I'm actually going 80% front and 20% rear torso on my armor due to the "Little Backbiters". You may have to start hitting heavies and Assaults from the front .......

[NeoGenesis For Answer]

Khobai, on 18 December 2015 - 09:47 AM, said:

You realize you die in the same number of alphas to the back regardless of whether you have 5 back armor or 15 back armor right? 10 armor simply doesnt make enough of a difference to help you survive an additional alpha.

That is relative to the mech you are running. Quite a few builds do not carry 35+ alpha strikes.

Also yes, if you're dumb enough to sit through the full burn of lasers and then sit there for another one I think you deserve to die.

Bishop Steiner, on 18 December 2015 - 10:24 AM, said:

words.

You guys seem to be taking some of this in the wrong way. The only problem I have with IS mechs is how SOME OF THEM, NOT ALL OF THEM, have excessive structure quirks and I later stated that converting the structure points to armor would be desirable. You don't even have to get rid of all the structure quirks. I just would think that going anywhere above 10 extra EHP universally (across front and back) is a poor choice.

Besides any unit using meta barely puts anything into back armor anyways.Just because they know they don't have to due to superior positioning. I'd like however to make it so that people who simply ignore mechs behind them pay a large price or if someone can sneak behind gets rewarded for doing so.

That is all.

Edited by NeoGenesis For Answer, 19 December 2015 - 11:56 AM.

[Airu]

I mostly play IS lights, mostly spider, and I agree that structure quirks are really screwing the only valid tactic those low alpha lights have in killing mechs. Now, I either go for mostly dead mechs to finish them off or try to leg an assault mech first from safe distance before going after his behind.

Edited by Airu, 19 December 2015 - 11:59 AM.

[Zibmo]

Malagant, on 18 December 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

I find it hilarious, that IS whine all day about the damage they take from Clan mechs, PGI buffs IS mechs to be more tanky, yet the Clans are still taxed with higher heat, longer burn times, lower heat sink efficiency as compensation. Clan mechs don't have nearly the durability of IS mechs, yet they are overpowered... IS get everything they want and the Clans get ****.

What's the down side?

[Nightmare1]

Meta laser vomit whine, ROFL.

Rear Torso health is just fine.

[Tordin]

Quote

This is no RPG you dont have bonuscritdamage for attacking from behind. Most people put some armor in the back exactly for those occassions.

Exactly!

Darn it, this is not an ordinary FPS game and certainly not an RPG. There should be no bonus this or that for hitting here and there. Isnt that why we got armor and internals that can get critted? Having naturally lower armor on back is enough of a weak spot, same for the cockpit if you can hit it.

Edited by Tordin, 19 December 2015 - 12:16 PM.

[NeoGenesis For Answer]

Nightmare1, on 19 December 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

Meta laser vomit whine, ROFL.

Rear Torso health is just fine.

None of my mechs run laser vomit... I have a 4xstreak 6 wolf with 4xersls and tag. A 2xLBX5 3xerml wolf. 2xERPPC SHC and a 2xerll with 2SRM6 3MPL SHC. Thats my drop deck. No laser vomit here.

Tordin, on 19 December 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

Exactly!

Darn it, this is not an ordinary FPS game and certainly not an RPG. There should be no bonus this or that for hitting here and there. Isnt that why we got armor and internals that can get critted? Having naturally lower armor on back is enough of a weak spot, same for the cockpit if you can hit it.

No you're right. This is a Battletech game. Where quirks (correct me if Im wrong) have never existed prior to this game.

[Weeny Machine]

The whole light mech class is in a terrible state for various reasons: speed reduction hit them very hard, heavies still turn like ballerinas, a lot of structure quirks on meds and heavies, etc

adamts01, on 18 December 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

No one feels sorry for your 6SPL cheetah

But I do hear you on the IS quirks. I somehow thought a crab was a light, so I've been losing trades with my LL shadowcat to them. Then I checked them out. Not only does it have way more armor at my same weight, it was 15% heat bonus and massive structure quirks. I get it has a weird shape, but so does the Shadowcat

Please tell us where that mean Cheetah touched you. Here is a paperdoll. Just point at it.

Seriously, if you have any problem with light mechs after the speed nerf and especially after the structure quirk removal of the Cheetah's legs then the issue is with you. Try to aim for the legs (they blow off now quite easily while the mech is slower) or drive a wheelchair (streak crow) like all the bitter dumbies who hate lights.

[Dimento Graven]

NeoGenesis For Answer, on 18 December 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

Getting a tad bit frustrated when I get behind IS mechs dumping laser vomits into them until I over heat to get his CT destroyed. Rear torso shots imho should ignore structure quirks and reward people who got behind them because on some mechs the structure quirks will by far out class the amount of armor on them ie catapult with 21 extra CT hp.

I think the structure quirks on the IS are out of hand, but whatever I'll facetank them with my TBRs and snipe em with my SHCs. I'd however like it if mechs were rewarded better for superior positioning on these mechs.
Not improving crits on rear torso shots but maybe doing damage more closely related to a ratio. For instance instead of having structure quirks the CT (structure not armor) would negate two fifths of the dmg whereas rear torso takes the full damage.
This way IS can keep its face tanks, and people can actually get better rewarded for sneaking up behind enemy mechs.
Sorry if this is slightly jumbled, my brain is fried from exams...

Add some form of rear firing weapons, and I'd be all for this.

It'd make game play more interesting...

[MechaBattler]

So should we do this to the Clan under performers that received structure quirks?

We had to put up with mechs with alphas well above their weight class. Now rear coring isn't so easy on IS mechs. Oh well.

[NeoGenesis For Answer]

Dimento Graven, on 19 December 2015 - 12:52 PM, said:

Add some form of rear firing weapons, and I'd be all for this.

It'd make game play more interesting...

... That imho is a waste of tonnage. Its not that hard to keep your rear torso free from damage. Which is why alot of people have little to no armor on it and why I want people who do get behind to be able to do significant damage to them.

[Dimento Graven]

NeoGenesis For Answer, on 19 December 2015 - 01:07 PM, said:

... That imho is a waste of tonnage. Its not that hard to keep your rear torso free from damage. Which is why alot of people have little to no armor on it and why I want people who do get behind to be able to do significant damage to them.

You want a free ride then.

You want the "I'm behind you so you automagically have to die" mechanics.

Nah, again, if you want to reduce the structures intended to balance the Clan superior maneuverability, durability, fire power, and range, you gotta give a little.

But I'm not saying that the rear firing weapons should be IS only. Heck no, Clans should get 'em too, ALONG WITH, a means for 'rear viewing'...

[NeoGenesis For Answer]

MechaBattler, on 19 December 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

So should we do this to the Clan under performers that received structure quirks?

We had to put up with mechs with alphas well above their weight class. Now rear coring isn't so easy on IS mechs. Oh well.

Absolutely. Keep in mind what I said to Bishop above generally a few structure points isn't a bad thing. 10points imo should be the limit on structure points save on some of the builds that are supposed to be absolute tanks like the Atlas. But for the most part it should be armor perks instead of structure. People should have to make a conscious effort whether or not they want or need rear protection.

[NeoGenesis For Answer]

Dimento Graven, on 19 December 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

You want a free ride then.

You want the "I'm behind you so you automagically have to die" mechanics.

Nah, again, if you want to reduce the structures intended to balance the Clan superior maneuverability, durability, fire power, and range, you gotta give a little.

But I'm not saying that the rear firing weapons should be IS only. Heck no, Clans should get 'em too, ALONG WITH, a means for 'rear viewing'...

No, I don't want a free ride. Do you think that if they introduced rear firing weapons I would sit directly behind you??? All about that rear view camera though. I think it should be something that can be toggled on or a module (.5-1 ton) because this is a mech game and I like the idea of opportunity costs.
Opportunity cost: The cost of choosing one thing over another.
Example: My favorite build on my SHC is 2xppc, 1ersl and ecm. I could switch to 3erlls for more damage but would require more facetime. I have to decide if I mind being exposed a little longer or just pop and shoot. I have to sacrifice something on both builds.

I will generally have 10-14points of armor on my rear CT. Even on my MADs, which is funny because I've had battlemechs get behind my MAD and I just keep toddling on forward with all the dakka and pew pews I can fit. Which is wrong imo lol.

You don't "automagically" die also. There are plenty of high alpha IS builds that can instakill clan mechs if they neglect armor. Once again its about positioning and being aware of your surroundings. Are you going to die instantly if a Dire Wolf gets behind you? Probably. But you're the idiot that let an assault mech behind you.

Edited by NeoGenesis For Answer, 19 December 2015 - 01:28 PM.

[Nightmare1]

NeoGenesis For Answer, on 19 December 2015 - 12:29 PM, said:

None of my mechs run laser vomit.

Hrmm, then perhaps you want to rethink this quote from your OP:

NeoGenesis For Answer, on 18 December 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

Getting a tad bit frustrated when I get behind IS mechs dumping laser vomits into them until I over heat to get his CT destroyed

That's awfully contradictory.

NeoGenesis For Answer, on 19 December 2015 - 12:29 PM, said:

I have a 4xstreak 6 wolf with 4xersls and tag. A 2xLBX5 3xerml wolf. 2xERPPC SHC and a 2xerll with 2SRM6 3MPL SHC. Thats my drop deck. No laser vomit here.

Well, you're complaining that you aren't able to kill IS Mechs quickly with Rear Torso shots, but if you look at your drop deck, it's pretty obvious why that's the case. It's not that Mech internals are too strong as much as it is that your Mechs aren't very powerful.

4xStreak 6 with 4 CERSL? That's all RNG damage with some eyepoke mixed in.

2xLBX/5 + 3CERML? LBX 5s are kind of useless and are also a bit RNG. There's no pinpoint with them. The 3xCERMLs are okay, but you shouldn't be able to core Mechs out in less than three salvos with that many CERMLs.

2xCERPPC are okay, but that's only 20 points of damage to a single component. It's essentially a super-hot AC/20 at that point. No wonder you can't kill Mechs from behind with that SHC!

2xCERLL with 2xCSRM6 and 3xCMPL is okay, but that's cooking hot right there. SRM hit reg is still a little wonky and has some RNG spread issues, so I would really only look at the 2xCERLL and 3xCMPL for real damage output. Again, that's not really enough to insta-kill Mechs without overheating.

I would suggest you rethink your Mechs and their purposes, along with your playstyle, before you start complaining that Mechs have too many internals. It doesn't make a lot of sense to have less internal health for rear shots compared to frontal shots since the internals are, by definition, internals. The armor should be the only real difference. It's possible that you're in a Tier where pilots are still maintaining stock rear armor, or possibly even boosting it. I know that I personally run a bit more rear armor than most simply to stymie pilots such as yourself.

Edit: Just in case no one has pointed this out to you yet, this isn't Halo or CoD. There aren't stealth kills in this game.

...Get over it.

Edited by Nightmare1, 19 December 2015 - 04:21 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Quite a few builds do not carry 35+ alpha strikes.

then theyre doing it wrong

because a standard laser alpha even on a clan light is 35 damage