47 replies to this topic

[Mister Blastman]

HBK IIc is in worse shape than the Highlander. The HBK is trash.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mister Blastman, on 18 December 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

HBK IIc is in worse shape than the Highlander. The HBK is trash.

Only if you try to play it like an IS HBK.

It is NOT a front line brawler. I ding the A and B do just fine as mid range fighters. The O needs a little love though since it's hardpoints are best suited for a more in your face role.

[Chados]

OP made reference to an 80 point alpha strike.

Think about that.

There isn't a single IS mech that comes within 30 points of that, that I'm aware of. It would take an Atlas with backup from a Marauder to equal ONE CLAN MECH. And a second-line Clan mech at that. Yet there are those who want it to have Timberwolf-level structure and mobility too?

I have an idea. Let's just delete all the IS factions and mechs and just call this Mechwarrior Online: The Clans.

[Mister Blastman]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 December 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

Only if you try to play it like an IS HBK.

It is NOT a front line brawler. I ding the A and B do just fine as mid range fighters. The O needs a little love though since it's hardpoints are best suited for a more in your face role.

And that's my problem with it. I hate playing in the back. It just isn't my kind of 'mech.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mister Blastman, on 18 December 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:

And that's my problem with it. I hate playing in the back. It just isn't my kind of 'mech.

Agreed. Just hate seeing something labeled "crap" when the real answer is "it's crap for how I play".

Not that they are phenomenal, just that they aren't terrible.

[ExplicitContent]

Chados, on 18 December 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

OP made reference to an 80 point alpha strike.

Think about that.

There isn't a single IS mech that comes within 30 points of that, that I'm aware of. It would take an Atlas with backup from a Marauder to equal ONE CLAN MECH. And a second-line Clan mech at that. Yet there are those who want it to have Timberwolf-level structure and mobility too?

I have an idea. Let's just delete all the IS factions and mechs and just call this Mechwarrior Online: The Clans.

Atlas ddc: ac20, 2xLPL, 3xSRM6. 80 point alpha.

[Mcgral18]

Mister Blastman, on 18 December 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

HBK IIc is in worse shape than the Highlander. The HBK is trash.

You need to play it like a Light.
Just slower, with fewer guns.


At least that's how I play it. Hide behind tanky things, like BJs or Whales. Max those JJs out, poke.
Just don't be shot...and hope the team doesn't fall apart.

[Lucian Nostra]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 December 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

Only if you try to play it like an IS HBK.

It is NOT a front line brawler. I ding the A and B do just fine as mid range fighters. The O needs a little love though since it's hardpoints are best suited for a more in your face role.

Beh.. any mech plays well off the frontlines.. I kinda agree that the HBK is trash.. I don't need a mech that can't get into a fight because I have plenty of machines that can sit back and hammer people AND get up there and mix it up..

[Bishop Steiner]

Lucian Nostra, on 18 December 2015 - 04:31 PM, said:

Beh.. any mech plays well off the frontlines.. I kinda agree that the HBK is trash.. I don't need a mech that can't get into a fight because I have plenty of machines that can sit back and hammer people AND get up there and mix it up..

then don't run it. Not every mech has to suit every player-

[Christof Romulus]

ExplicitContent, on 18 December 2015 - 08:20 AM, said:

I'm not an advocate of P2W, but I do expect P4V (pay for viable). The line is where does the lore affect the decisions for how the mechs should be. I get that in lore they were a death sentence. So the lore group is all, "This is how they are supposed to be!" But if that's the case, then why have all of my other clan mechs been nerfed so hard and balanced against their IS counterparts? Not asking for OP, just asking for competitive. Currently the IICs have the negatives of both sides of the fence. Clan heat and IS hitboxes sans structure quirks.

Because they have both of the advantages too?
Clan tech (clan heatsinks, clan weapons, clan endosteel clan ferro fibrus, clan xl engines)
Inner Sphere customization (no locked anything anywhere)

One gets the good with the bad I suppose.

[Lucian Nostra]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 December 2015 - 04:32 PM, said:

then don't run it. Not every mech has to suit every player-

While true I just don't think "it's a second line fighter" is a good excuse for lackluster performance. The HBK isn't getting bonuses for hanging back nor does it get more tonnage due to it's wall presentation. Its just a 50 tonner that gets blapped when someone starts shooting at it. Has a very Trebuchet feel.. sure it does well.. when no one is shooting it..

edit: Awesomes too

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 18 December 2015 - 04:42 PM.

[Christof Romulus]

Alistair Winter, on 18 December 2015 - 08:31 AM, said:

There's really nothing intrinsically bad about the Highlander or the Highlander IIC, but both mechs suffer because of their hardpoints and their engine cap. At 60 kph, you're not very mobile at all. With 2 ton hoverjets, even less so. So you have to rely on firepower. Unfortunately, most Highlander variants have a fairly even combination of ballistic, energy and missile hardpoints, and that's just not very good.

An AC20 or UAC20 with some lasers and some missiles isn't scaring anyone. All the best assaults generally have lots of lasers or lots of ballistics or a combination of both, unless they're LRM boats. This is why the IS Victor and IS Highlanders have been unpopular for a while. Especially after the gauss nerf! It's not going to change unless PGI does something to encourage the combination of ballistics, missiles and energy. And right now, those builds are usually too hot, because they require 2 different types of ammo, ballistics take up a lot of space, missiles take up a lot of space (especially with Artemis) and you don't have the space and/or weight available for heat sinks to keep the thing cool.

If UAC20, UAC10, AC20s and AC10s had less than half the amount of heat they do now, the Highlander and Highlander IIC would be much better mechs. These mechs always lack the DPS to be effective at only 60 kph.

And fix those jump jets too.


We also had people running around yelling "I can't wait to destroy all those ACH's with my Jenner IIC", but that didn't exactly come to fruition either. Without knowing the quirks, it's always hard to predict how mechs are going to perform. Well, almost always.

Hilariously enough I proposed 'Ghost Cooling' for mechs that used ballistics, energy, and missile combinations as a mechanical advantage and incentive to use these mechs - which was promptly laughed off the table.

[ExplicitContent]

Christof Romulus, on 18 December 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

Because they have both of the advantages too?
Clan tech (clan heatsinks, clan weapons, clan endosteel clan ferro fibrus, clan xl engines)
Inner Sphere customization (no locked anything anywhere)

One gets the good with the bad I suppose.

True enough, but in this case the negatives far outweigh those positive perks IMO.

[Escef]

Chados, on 18 December 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

OP made reference to an 80 point alpha strike.

Think about that.

There isn't a single IS mech that comes within 30 points of that,...

Correct, NOT a SINGLE one. There are several that come close to that. Atlas, King Crab, and Stalker are each capable of going over 80. If you can't think of an Inner Sphere mech with an alpha of 80+ than you need to learn more about the game.

[Chados]

ExplicitContent, on 18 December 2015 - 04:16 PM, said:

Atlas ddc: ac20, 2xLPL, 3xSRM6. 80 point alpha.

I stand corrected. Then the HGN-IIC ought to maneuver like an Atlas too. Wait, it does. Balanced!

Oh, and Escef, thanks for the condescension. The judges rated it 4/7. Insert golf clap here.

Edited by Chados, 18 December 2015 - 06:59 PM.

[El Bandito]

ExplicitContent, on 18 December 2015 - 08:20 AM, said:

Currently the IICs have the negatives of both sides of the fence. Clan heat and IS hitboxes sans structure quirks.

It also has Clan XL, Clan equipment, and Clan weapons. Clanners should rejoice that they got the best LRM mech they have ever seen. Don't you guys get tired of laser vomiting?

Once I buy those IICs for C-Bills, I shall terrorize the T1 pug queue.

Edited by El Bandito, 18 December 2015 - 07:07 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

El Bandito, on 18 December 2015 - 07:04 PM, said:

It also has Clan XL, Clan equipment, and Clan weapons. Clanners should rejoice that they got the best LRM mech they have ever seen. Don't you guys get tired of laser vomiting?

Once I buy those IICs for C-Bills, I shall terrorize the T1 pug queue.

Clans.

Not really noted for promoting free thinking. Pretty sure the first clan was actually Clan Meta-Lemming.

[Escef]

Chados, on 18 December 2015 - 06:57 PM, said:

I stand corrected. Then the HGN-IIC ought to maneuver like an Atlas too. Wait, it does. Balanced!

Oh, and Escef, thanks for the condescension. The judges rated it 4/7. Insert golf clap here.

Well, considering that just 2 days ago you said:

Chados, on 16 December 2015 - 08:14 PM, said:

40? It is to laugh. IIC mechs put out double that, easy. At least the HGN and ONI can. There isn't a single mech in the entire IS inventory capable of more than 58 that I'm aware of, and that's an Atlas with a bunch of SRMs.

And I responded then with:

Escef, on 17 December 2015 - 02:25 AM, said:

Stalker can push over 80. I've heard there's one or 2 King Crab builds that do over 100... Mind you, I have a Mad Dog that does 100.

Yeah, you earned the condescension. You were wrong on this 2 days ago and decided learning from your mistakes was beneath you.

[Khobai]

assault mechs in general need a buff

-slow, your team just abandons you to die alone most of the time
-huge hitboxes, which when combined with being slow is the worst combination, and the extra armor doesnt come close to making up for the lack of speed and huge bullseye on your torso.
-hit the same heat brickwall as heavies meaning they dont really get a firepower advantage over heavies mainly due to the fact that external double heatsinks are so bad that assaults cant gain a substantial heat dissipation advantage over heavies despite having more DHS.
-skill tree nerf hit assaults harder than any other weight class. hill climbing in an assault is now frustrating as !@#$ with all the acceleration and speed nerfs.

theres literally no reason to play most assaults anymore, theyre just way worse than heavies.

Edited by Khobai, 18 December 2015 - 07:31 PM.

[Chados]

Escef, on 18 December 2015 - 07:21 PM, said:

Well, considering that just 2 days ago you said:



And I responded then with:




Yeah, you earned the condescension. You were wrong on this 2 days ago and decided learning from your mistakes was beneath you.

LOL. The judges rated that one 3/7. You're slipping-surely a Steiner can come up with better insults than this, you all patented arrogance! Note that I admitted error before you inserted poorly conceived condescension, supra.

Oh, and Bishop: I was drinking coffee when I read your last post, and you have no idea how much it hurts to have hot coffee go up your nose when you read something that funny.

Edited by Chados, 18 December 2015 - 08:27 PM.