17 replies to this topic

[M0rdresh]

I don't get it, I keep on hearing how Clan has the better mechs and this and that, however looking at the faction map the clan controlled regions are very small ?

Edited by M0rdresh, 20 December 2015 - 02:38 AM.

[Raubwurst]

Without wanting to say a single thing about the whole "Clan is better"/"IS is better" kindergarten:
Some days before the Steamrelease, the map got resettet.
That the clans have only a few planets on the IS side, is just a lore thing. The Clans' homeplanets are far away and not part of the Faction War. Thus they only have a few "landing" plantes, where they start their crusade.

The borders will shift again (one way or another), but this needs time.

[Koniving]

M0rdresh, on 18 December 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

I don't get it, I keep on hearing how Clan has the better mechs and this and that, however looking at the faction map the clan controlled regions are very small ?

Several things:
1) Map got reset (the Clans practically owned the whole thing; but this is because the IS kept refusing to fight except for new players...leading to many easy stomps.)
2) The better mech stigma comes from tabletop, in which case translated directly into a game like MWO, with or without a good translation... the Clan mechs would be. This is because the IS advantages simply have never existed in a Mechwarrior game.

We don't have infantry swarming mechs, we don't have melee combat, we don't have tactics, concealment, larger numbers, field weaponry in unknown locations, unique technology and weapons per faction (aka per house), greater resources, etc. Never has the IS advantages ever been put into a mechwarrior game, but the Clan advantages always make it in, creating the "Clan is better" stigma. Clan disadvantages don't usually make it in either, because that's on the human element. Zellbrigen, or the desire to fight enemies in one on one combat despite being in an open battlefield, or the desire to use as little as possible to defeat a greater enemy force as proof of your skill. Yeah -- how often do you see those in an online game?

3) Many people don't realize the advantages the IS have in MWO. Our guns focus damage better, almost everything produces less heat, our heatsinks work better, our quirks allow us to fire much more rapidly, we don't lose mobility through the use of autocannons or PPCs (in the arms). Our mechs generally have better flexibility in terms of twisting and aiming. We also have the ONLY one shot kill combination to exist in all of MWO. Twin AC/20s. Single shot to ANY cockpit = instant death. The Clan mechs do NOT have something that compares short of suicide gimmicks like the 13 ER PPC DireStar.

The issue, however, is that IS Mechs need to get CLOSER to deliver on their advantages over Clan mechs... Meanwhile Clan Mechs have their best advantages at RANGE.

And there-in rests the problem players have. Too scared to get close.

[Famous]

We're also in the last stages of Faction Play v2. Russ (PGI President) has announced that Faction Play v3 will be releasing in the spring with significant changes.

I'd expect a lot of changes to Faction Play between now and then, but that's just me. Right now they've upped the drop deck tonnage to IS265/C250 up from IS250/C240. Since there will almost certainly be a map reset at version 3 why not play around with the settings to see what works and see what sends people to the forums wailing about the sky falling.

[Koniving]

I'm hoping that dropdeck tonnage limits will vary by planet, making "meta" stalemates difficult to impossible.

[Famous]

Koniving, on 18 December 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

I'm hoping that dropdeck tonnage limits will vary by planet, making "meta" stalemates difficult to impossible.

Alternately with limited attack lanes in CW3 each faction could have 3-4 drop ships with variable tonnage limits. If there are three attack lanes you have a Leopard, Gazelle, and Union you can assign and that determines how much weight you can bring to the planet. Defender tonnage would be set to attacker tonnage so you don't end up with a huge Union tonnage drop against a Leopard tonnage drop. With the lanes being votes the drop ships could be as well.

[M0rdresh]

Thanks a lot, this is some great info.
Why do they work with these drop packs? Currently I'm only interested in mastering one mech, I need four and of each class it seems to participate.

[Koniving]

M0rdresh, on 18 December 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

Thanks a lot, this is some great info.
Why do they work with these drop packs? Currently I'm only interested in mastering one mech, I need four and of each class it seems to participate.

Just checked to be certain.

That's a negative. You need 4 variants (of any chassis), which can fit in the tonnage limit (example if the limit is 240, you could bring 4 Dragons (60 times 4)). Personally I'm going to bring 3 Marauders and a Commando *75 times 3 + 25 times 1" on my next CW run versus the Davions.

I'll be happy to take the opportunity to resupply the Inner Sphere with Davion Surplus Battlemechs. I already have the sales pitch, too! "Soiled once, never used."

Heh.

To participate you require 4 mechs, which we're pretending have 4 different pilots, to make 12 versus 12 (or 24 players) seem like 48 versus 48 (or 96 players) in a series of waves. Thus making it "epic" in a way. Which sometimes it is.

Spoiler

To be perfectly honest, that's way too many mechs in a field of battle...and not enough tanks, aircraft, infantry, etc. Especially since this
(not to mention vehicles freaking pwn things provided that terrain doesn't become an issue -- which it usually does).

This 100 ton Behemoth Tank, in this ten second time slice, destroys 2 mechs and cripples one more...with 4 total hits after cycling through 5 targets. The 5th target was too close and too far to the side for the front-body-mounted LRM-5 launchers to be able to hit (the hit chance was less than 15%). The turret only attacked the Atlas, using twin LB-10x autocannons using standard autocannon ammunition (not the cluster-shot rounds). The rest was done by 4 LRM-5s.
(For the next minute and a half, this tank holds off its foes despite the fact that its right track was completely shredded by the Atlas).


(Side note, that rather bland looking map is an arena map, and "some" of the 'arrow' tiles shift elevation with every turn, creating some really precarious positions.)

I want tanks. Gimme tanks. Battletech tanks. 100 ton Behemoth tank, armored variant. I'll be more than happy to take a n Atlas or a Dire Wolf on -- and yes with melee. Open missile doors! Bring it, MechWarrior. Your days are numbered.

(MechWarrior as in the pilot of a BattleMech, obviously.)

Edited by Koniving, 18 December 2015 - 03:28 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

^^^ Yeah, there's no reason at all to think that you need one of every weight class, or four of any chassis, to participate in FW.

My current Clan drop deck (a weak one, honestly, but I'm poor and not very good at MWO):
EBJ-Prime
EBJ-A
EBJ-B
SCR-A

Before the recent tonnage increase, that SCR was replaced by a SHC. Yeah, stuff THAT in your meta pipe and smoke it! (Actually, not a bad mech. First 5-kill match since the invasion was in a SHC.)

Or one could do a TBR, SHC, and a couple EBJs. Or two TBRs, a SCR, and a SHC. Or three ACHs and a DWF. Who knows?! Go get crazy!

Now, there IS a solid recommendation that you buy THREE (3) variants of any mech chassis, and work up to the ELITE level skills on all three. Well, at LEAST one, and that being the one you intend to use in FW. You'll have to have the BASIC skills unlocked on three different variants, in order to be able to start on the ELITE skills of any of them. And then ELITE on three variants in that weight class, in order to start on the MASTER unlock for any one of them. But that's entirely a skill-building thing, and not at all related to drop deck requirements or whatnot.

The ONLY requirements for your drop deck are:

-IS mechs for an IS contract, Clan mechs for a Clan contract, NO EXCEPTIONS.
-MUST have four mechs with a combined weight between the specified drop tonnages (currently 265 tons IS, 250 tons Clan, subject to change at the game developer's discretion).

That's it. Wanna run two Atlases and two Locusts? GO FOR IT! Four Dragons? Right on. Have fun!

[Rogue Jedi]

there is also a minimum tonnage for CW, I think it currently stands at 160 tones, which is a shame because I would love to take an all Light Mech drop deck occasionally

[M0rdresh]

What I mean is that I cannot take two assaults and call it a day.
I need to have four which does effectively narrows my options as an Assault focused player.
(unless I'm mistaken and you can go in with two mechs)

[Rogue Jedi]

M0rdresh, on 19 December 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

What I mean is that I cannot take two assaults and call it a day.
I need to have four which does effectively narrows my options as an Assault focused player.
(unless I'm mistaken and you can go in with two mechs)

you can take two 100 ton assaults if you want, you just will have to take a pair of low tonnage lights as well, if playing IS buy 2 Locusts, they cost less than 2 million each if you do not bother with upgrades, if playing Clan same thing except use the much more expensive Mist Lynx at 6 million each instead

[The Basilisk]

M0rdresh, on 18 December 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

Thanks a lot, this is some great info.
Why do they work with these drop packs? Currently I'm only interested in mastering one mech, I need four and of each class it seems to participate.

There was a warning when you first tryed to access Faction warfare.
It said somethin about competitive and so on.

Its a bit confusing and unprecisely formulated, there should be something preventing you from dropping in CW without meeting some criteria.

The 4 mechs thing was created as some kind of innovative excuse for creating a respawning mode.
( And one that I like, to be clear)
An other reason was to increase the tactical possibilitys in a group. Imagine coordinating 12ppl à 4 mechs and their loadout. That can be quite intresting.

An other point is that there shouldn't be any newbys at all in this mode.
Even letting singleplayer drop without preformed groups was more an afterthought due to low player count.
The Intention was to fill up underscoring groups ( below 12 ) not to create random pug drops vs coordinated full groups.

If you want to drop anyways its up to you, but please bring a lot of frustration resistance.
You do not need one mech of every class.
You got a tonnage drop limit ( atm its 265t for inner sphere and 250t for clans )
What you should have is 4 Mechs with at least elite level, able to meet the tonnage requirements.
But keep in mind that the tonnage level may drop again. It was 240t for some time.

Clan lore in a nutshell:

A frustrated General named Alexandr Kerensky lead the remenants of the army of a large star empire ( Starleague today what we call the InnerSphere ) away from this dieing and fracturing State into deepspace.
He took with him Titanic colonyships, Fleettenders, Carriers, and tens of thousends of mechs fighters, tanks and hundreds of thousends of infantry and millions of techs and civilians.

Several hundreds of lightyears they founded a new home. Several things went terribly wrong and many of his soldiers could not adapt to civil life. The result was a civil war.
Disgusted from their behavior he left again with a core of his most faithfull warriors.
He died.
His son Nicolas then created a new kind of civilisation favoring Warriors over everything else.
The Ideals of the Warriors became more and more tainted over time.
Today those remenants of the Starleague Army are a twisted perversion of Nicolas Kerenskys dream of a knighly Warrior culture.
They are cloned, racistic fashistoid monsters bread for war, with their only goal of conquering terra and installing a terror regime over every one not geneticaly improved and every one beeing not a Clan Warrior.

Edited by The Basilisk, 19 December 2015 - 10:04 AM.

[M0rdresh]

The Basilisk, on 19 December 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

There was a warning when you first tryed to access Faction warfare. It said somethin about competitive and so on.

Thanks the information, appreciated. Not sure why you mentioned this, because I am aware CW is competitive and more end game. I'm just dipping my toes and was wondering why I have to slot in some mechs of classes I have no interest in. It's probably just me having no interest in anything other than assault because I want to specialize and are not fond of the four mechs force scenario.

Limit me to two respawns as an assault class with only two mechs as the ton limit I have no issues with, but do not force slotting mechs I do not care about by enforcing four. I find that design, being a noob as it may, questionable.

Edited by M0rdresh, 19 December 2015 - 03:38 PM.

[The Basilisk]

Um, my intention was to underline its a cooperation intensive game mode, and for cooperation you need flexibility and ressources you could not have as an new player.
At time you will notice that your assaults potentialy are not more durable than mediums or heavys.
If you say "hey know what MWO, screw you I'll take 2 Kingcrab because I like just assault and two trial locust because I would not pay a dime for anything but assaults"... you would basicaly punish your fellow team players by selecting two good mechs and two next to useless ones.

Edited by The Basilisk, 19 December 2015 - 04:19 PM.

[The Trumpet of Gabriel]

Actually with the current tonnage you can take two King Crabs, a Blackjack 1X and a Locust...

[Leone]

The Basilisk, on 19 December 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

- you would basicaly punish your fellow team players by selecting two good mechs and two next to useless ones.

Actually, the king crab is also considered a fairly decent mech, you shouldn't knock it.

~Leone.

[M0rdresh]

The Basilisk, on 19 December 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

If you say "hey know what MWO, screw you I'll take 2 Kingcrab because I like just assault and two trial locust because I would not pay a dime for anything but assaults"... you would basicaly punish your fellow team players by selecting two good mechs and two next to useless ones.

You seem to confuse the desire to specialize with not willing to be a team player. This has nothing to do with the negative "screw you" connotation you seem to give it. If the game is forcing me to go with two good mechs and two bad ones because, heaven forbid because I have a preference (!), then the "punishing team" problem lies with the game and it's design and not me. I really do not like you insinuation.

Edited by M0rdresh, 20 December 2015 - 02:36 AM.