253 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Pathos, on 20 December 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

Thought it was posted by Russ. Wasn't aware they removed polling from the MWO site. What a mess PGI creates.




Very much is a me problem. Granted this is an issue many have brought up in the past. Instead of posting information on their own site the spread it out messily all over the place.

Won't deny that. Just weary of the somewhat juvenile insults people hurl at the social media sites, like it makes one a better or worse person to use them. You can filter any of them as much as you want, so MEH. I realized over a year ago, for whatever reason, Russ is a twitter addict, and that was the only reliable means to get his attention. So I started an account. And pretty much all it gets used for, is MWO.

And at the risk of offending stjobe, I could put out a decent list of things that got changed because of that.

[TexAce]

When did requests to alter Geometry EVER have been taken seriously by PGI before releasing a mech? Higher or lower stance, ok. Arm angle ok.

But geo? Never.

If you guys would just know how much work it is to do this....only adjusting all the textures takes days.

Edited by TexAce, 20 December 2015 - 09:57 AM.

[pbiggz]

Pathos, on 20 December 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

Thought it was posted by Russ. Wasn't aware they removed polling from the MWO site. What a mess PGI creates.




Very much is a me problem. Granted this is an issue many have brought up in the past. Instead of posting information on their own site the spread it out messily all over the place.

They tend to avoid their own forums because the moment they try to be constructive, you guys and 18 billion other people start shouting insults at them so they run off somewhere else.

[Imperius]

TexAce, on 20 December 2015 - 09:57 AM, said:

When did requests to alter Geometry EVER have been taken seriously by PGI before releasing a mech? Higher or lower stance, ok. Arm angle ok.

But geo? Never.

If you guys would just know how much work it is to do this....only adjusting all the textures takes days.

Yup for $55 almost a full game, or my $2,227 I've spent on the game the least they could do it match the concept art they use to sell mechs. Especially ones so iconic/important... I think that's worth a few days. Since after all mechs are our only content and things we pay for.

Edited by Imperius, 20 December 2015 - 10:05 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

TexAce, on 20 December 2015 - 09:57 AM, said:

When did requests to alter Geometry EVER have been taken seriously by PGI before releasing a mech? Higher or lower stance, ok. Arm angle ok.

But geo? Never.

If you guys would just know how much work it is to do this....only adjusting all the textures takes days.

Agreed, though one had to take the shot when Russ says it's an early unfinished model on his sneakpeek. It's also why I have harped on Russ for the need to bring on an impartial fanboy (yes, oxymoron duly noted) consultant EARLY in to catch these things that modelers can get tunnel vision over (especially if aid modeler ain't a fanboi to begin with) to keep a perspective on thing (save them some rescale issues, too). Russ said that person would have to be able to be Vetoed which I fully agree with, as they would be a consultant, not a "manager".

They need to stick closer to the concepts if they don't want cancellations.

[Bishop Steiner]

Imperius, on 20 December 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

Yup for $55 almost a full game, or my $2,227 I've spent on the game the least they could do it match the concept art they use to sell mechs. Especially ones so iconic/important...

Really can't even factor how much spent as an individual... it's simple smart business though. The lower the QA is for the product put out, the less likely people are to purchase again in the future. They had boosted their model quality on a few before this, so I was hopeful. Now, I really really dread to see what will happen to that Glorious Archer. If it gets messed up to, I might have to cancel my first pre order.

I spoke my mind pretty heavily about the matter on my Mad Dog and Enforcer posts. I've let Russ have it over the K2 and weapon scaling. There have been SOME results from that. But you can't screw up something as iconic as the Classic Unseens. These probably need to have the highest QA standards, considering the fanboism involved.

You got enough who will never be happy until it's their Robotech Unseen.... so how much worse does the QQ get if you can't even match your own concept art?

[Imperius]

Don't even get me started on lack of custom geometry... I'm still salty over that lie... At least I'm honest and try to be as respectful but as real as possible.

IIC was supposed to be the only ones without custom geo...

Edited by Imperius, 20 December 2015 - 10:12 AM.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

This is just a repackaged battle master.

You suckers are buying mechs we already have now?

No wonder nothing important ever gets done.

[TheCharlatan]

I like the beefy-ness, but what really sold the WHM to me was the low "protected" cockpit...
I'm not a fan of this higher cockpit, it makes the mech look too humanoid.

[Unreliable Mercenary]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 December 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

Agreed, though one had to take the shot when Russ says it's an early unfinished model on his sneakpeek.

I didn't intend to cause any grief with taking the shot. Just figured folks would like to see the progress.

[Bishop Steiner]

Owen Miller, on 20 December 2015 - 10:30 AM, said:

I didn't intend to cause any grief with taking the shot. Just figured folks would like to see the progress.

Indeed. If anything it was on Russ. You don't provide "super early access" to a bunch of raging nerd fanbois, and not expect a little bit of ..... er.. "constructive" criticism.

In fact, what I tried to get Russ to see, and am STILL trying, is that at least limited glimpses, even earlier can nip potential headaches like this in the bud.

Seriously, considering the quality of 3D models some guys have put together in DAYS in the Fan Creation section (mind you, not to the same level of texture mapping, etc, not claiming that, but one of them got hired because of his models), It is not an unreasonable consumer expectation, in this day and age for the Models to closely match the Concept Art (aside from the occasional functionality/clipping issues).

Mech Packs are the primary revenue source for MWO. So the continuance of that revenue does reside in the QA of said packs.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 20 December 2015 - 10:38 AM.

[Unreliable Mercenary]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 December 2015 - 10:35 AM, said:

Indeed. If anything it was on Russ. You don't provide "super early access" to a bunch of raging nerd fanbois, and not expect a little bit of ..... er.. "constructive" criticism.

In fact, what I tried to get Russ to see, and am STILL trying, is that at least limited glimpses, even earlier can nip potential headaches like this in the bud.

Seriously, considering the quality of 3D models some guys have put together in DAYS in the Fan Creation section (mind you, not to the same level of texture mapping, etc, not claiming that), It is not an unreasonable consumer expectation, in this day and age for the Models to closely match the Concept Art (aside from the occasional functionality/clipping issues).

Mech Packs are the primary revenue source for MWO. So the continuance of that revenue does reside in the QA of said packs.

I'm pretty new around here, so not 100% in tune with how the community reacts to these things. There are a few special snowflakes in this thread raging, but I'd say most of the feedback has been quite constructive. The cockpit squish edit that Kapusta made for example.

You are right though, Mech Warrior fans have always been hard to please, long before this game was a twinkle in PGI's eye. I personally enjoy the original model they showed, the tweaks suggested here would be icing on the cake. I disagree with people who are saying it looks nothing like the concept art, and I understand some sacrifices must be made for gameplay reasons (The arms).

As a side note, it saddens me to read that the developers are afraid of their own forums, I don't think I have seen anything like that before.

[Bishop Steiner]

Owen Miller, on 20 December 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

I'm pretty new around here, so not 100% in tune with how the community reacts to these things. There are a few special snowflakes in this thread raging, but I'd say most of the feedback has been quite constructive. The cockpit squish edit that Kapusta made for example.

You are right though, Mech Warrior fans have always been hard to please, long before this game was a twinkle in PGI's eye. I personally enjoy the original model they showed, the tweaks suggested here would be icing on the cake. I disagree with people who are saying it looks nothing like the concept art, and I understand some sacrifices must be made for gameplay reasons (The arms).

As a side note, it saddens me to read that the developers are afraid of their own forums, I don't think I have seen anything like that before.

Yeah. Me and Kapusta don't tend to get along, but I have a basic rule... if something is useful, or a good idea, I'll promote the heck out of it, no matter who came up with it. And if early in the modeling process, We had the wireframes even to see the head hump, etc, then something like kapusta11s photoshop (nice skills, too) are even more valuable. Because he nailed it, in a way my GimpFu was too lacking to.

[Azghuld]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 December 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

Agreed, though one had to take the shot when Russ says it's an early unfinished model on his sneakpeek. It's also why I have harped on Russ for the need to bring on an impartial fanboy (yes, oxymoron duly noted) consultant EARLY in to catch these things that modelers can get tunnel vision over (especially if aid modeler ain't a fanboi to begin with) to keep a perspective on thing (save them some rescale issues, too). Russ said that person would have to be able to be Vetoed which I fully agree with, as they would be a consultant, not a "manager".

They need to stick closer to the concepts if they don't want cancellations.

that is a fantastic idea. at some point, PGI is going to have to stop using the "we're a small company" excuse and start hiring more devs and QA types from the BT/MW fan base. some of that crew never heard of Mechwarrior before they started working there 0_o

[Unreliable Mercenary]

Russ said he would pass it along. That is something at least!

Tweet

[Bishop Steiner]

Owen Miller, on 20 December 2015 - 11:15 AM, said:

Russ said he would pass it along. That is something at least!

Tweet

Indeed, and appreciated.

It's those little things (like him switching the ® Zeus.... of course then the Meta changes about the time they release, and all the MetaOverlords are raging because of that.... sigh......) that keep me coming back. It's also why you need a non MetaFanBoi to consult...because some of us remember the Meta shifts.... but the MetaOverlords are so focused on the MEta of the Moment that their ideas almost universally become traps.

Look beyond the meta.

[LordBraxton]

pbiggz, on 20 December 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

They tend to avoid their own forums because the moment they try to be constructive, you guys and 18 billion other people start shouting insults at them so they run off somewhere else.

nope, PGI sucked at responding on the forums even during closed beta, when everyone was pumped about the game and progress to come, and hadnt become bitter due to disappointment

Large game downgrades during late open beta created the first wave of bittervets.

PGI's lack of communication never changed

Edited by LordBraxton, 20 December 2015 - 11:22 AM.

[trevalion]

Kushko, on 19 December 2015 - 12:46 AM, said:

It looks way too blocky/buff. The concept art is great, the ingame model i have to say im not a fan off.

Why is it that with some mechs they just cant seem to follow the concept art at all when they model it ingame?




Apparently he has nondev incognito account he plays with thats t3.

Confirmed, matches with RussBullock last night in T3

[Bishop Steiner]

LordBraxton, on 20 December 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

nope, PGI sucked at responding on the forums even during closed beta, when everyone was pumped about the game and progress to come, and hadnt become bitter due to disappointment

Large game downgrades during late open beta created the first wave of bittervets.

PGI's lack of communication never changed

Actually, it has waxed and waned over the entire course of this titles life.

In Early CB, the Devs did post a fair bit on the forums, and you could frequently find Paul and Rus son the Comstar TS channel, sometimes NGNG. During Open Beta, and the Bad Year of 2013, between IGP (apparently), 3pV, the Forum Debacke, etc, PGI went radio silent. And it almost cost them the game, from defections. Early MAy 2014, PGI bought themselves out from IGP and that summer was quite conversant...and the Bittervets proceeded to get on any post by Russ and such, and blow it up with unfounded rumor, name calling etc. And shocker..:PGI pulled back a bit again.

And yet, even now, the communication level is still higher than 2013.

So when you say "never changed", I have to call BS. And that's not my initials.

[Unreliable Mercenary]

LordBraxton, on 20 December 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

nope, PGI sucked at responding on the forums even during closed beta, when everyone was pumped about the game and progress to come, and hadnt become bitter due to disappointment

Large game downgrades during late open beta created the first wave of bittervets.

PGI's lack of communication never changed

He seems pretty responsive on twitter. I encourage anyone who likes the proposed edits to create an account and send a polite tweet his way voicing your support. Just because he has not responded in this thread, does not mean he has not read the critiques within.