102 replies to this topic

[Navid A1]

Does anyone know anything on this?

Did PGI write the MWO code from scratch?
or did they purchased an already stable build and began editing the code as a mod team?

[TyphonCh]

Navid A1, on 23 May 2016 - 12:49 AM, said:

Does anyone know anything on this?

Did PGI write the MWO code from scratch?
or did they purchased an already stable build and began editing the code as a mod team?

They probably hired people from Cryengine to write the foundation, hence why we can't have cool things like ammo swapping. That's my guess anyway. Who really knows? In the time I've been playing nothing really 'ground breaking' has happened which leads me to believe the original programmers and engineers are long gone.
I love this game.... But. Come on. *rolls eyes*

Edited by Team Chevy86, 23 May 2016 - 12:52 AM.

[Troutmonkey]

Navid A1, on 23 May 2016 - 12:49 AM, said:

Does anyone know anything on this?

Did PGI write the MWO code from scratch?
or did they purchased an already stable build and began editing the code as a mod team?

I don't know who wrote the orginal code, but whoever they are they did a terrible job and don't work for PGI anymore. In fact, I'm not sure there's any developers left at PGI. How long did it take them to "fix" chat again?

[GonaDie]

Monkeys.

And not the smart ones.

[Idealsuspect]

Navid A1, on 23 May 2016 - 12:49 AM, said:

Does anyone know anything on this?

Did PGI write the MWO code from scratch?
or did they purchased an already stable build and began editing the code as a mod team?

Lol bro
Best topic of month.

[LordNothing]

i figure it was written by a chimp smacking the keyboard repeatedly with a brick.

mod teams are far far more effective at what they do than pgi is. and thats in cases where there is no support, no source code on abandon ware, which is the worst kind of game to mod.

hell i seen people disassemble games just so they can update the code all asm level stuff. see d3d port of elite 2.

Edited by LordNothing, 23 May 2016 - 04:27 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Navid A1, on 23 May 2016 - 12:49 AM, said:

Does anyone know anything on this?

Did PGI write the MWO code from scratch?
or did they purchased an already stable build and began editing the code as a mod team?

If I recall correctly, they pulled it out of a Crackerjack box.........

That said, I believe it was basic market edition cryengine, that they then had to start extensively modifying in house to get to do most anything they wanted on the scale attempted, to the point that if I again, recall correctly, they essentially ended up over several attempts rewriting the base code almost from scratch.

I don't think they got/could afford much Crytek official support, (funnily enough, even with that, Roberts has had to recreate and modify hugely the majority of the code for this "poorly chosen" engine) ... so why do people give PGI such crap for using Cryengine (at the time much more affordable than Unreal) but Chris Roberts gets a pass for the same code and largely the same issues?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 May 2016 - 04:21 AM.

[Nightshade24]

Troutmonkey, on 23 May 2016 - 01:01 AM, said:

I don't know who wrote the orginal code, but whoever they are they did a terrible job and don't work for PGI anymore. In fact, I'm not sure there's any developers left at PGI. How long did it take them to "fix" chat again?

Call me crazy but I am pretty sure we still have developers. I mean I doubt a concept artists does the coding related to weapon ballancing, (imitating) laser heatsinks, new quirks, and the Cyclops battle computer.

It's something I guess... but wouldn't surprise me if it's some guy doing over time all the time and is only that one guy.

Team Chevy86, on 23 May 2016 - 12:51 AM, said:

They probably hired people from Cryengine to write the foundation, hence why we can't have cool things like ammo swapping. That's my guess anyway. Who really knows? In the time I've been playing nothing really 'ground breaking' has happened which leads me to believe the original programmers and engineers are long gone.
I love this game.... But. Come on. *rolls eyes*

if so I am disappointed that some guy from cryengine struggled so hard to make quad mechs work.

[Bishop Steiner]

Nightshade24, on 23 May 2016 - 04:20 AM, said:

if so I am disappointed that some guy from cryengine struggled so hard to make quad mechs work.

If I recall correctly, they never tried to mech Quad Mechs work.

Why add fresh code, new and double the animation, new mechlab mechanics for such diminishing returns? The simple scarcity of chassis, especially in the time era chosen that would benefit from inclusion is so small, it simply makes no business sense to include. (And unless they all were turreted, the QQ by those trying to use them once introduced would be HUGE.....and that's before they realize they also lose 12 crit slots per mech...)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 May 2016 - 04:26 AM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 04:17 AM, said:

I don't think they got/could afford much Crytek official support, (funnily enough, even with that, Roberts has had to recreate and modify hugely the majority of the code for this "poorly chosen" engine) ... so why do people give PGI such crap for using Cryengine (at the time much more affordable than Unreal) but Chris Roberts gets a pass for the same code and largely the same issues?

Because people who give 2 fracks about star citizen already drank the koolade and are typically a couple grand deep into a game that is probably never coming out due to feature creep.

As for why I give PGI such crap about cryengine (even knowing they didn't really have any other affordable options) is that they knew that cry engine doesn't support the server authenticated netcode they were going to need and the game basically got stripped of all its ambitions and cool features that were previously implemented as a result.

[LordNothing]

normally game logic is well isolated from the core of the engine. like the way its done for almost every fps since quake (in fact the entirety of the game logic code was made available early on and this took modding to a new level). this is usually the way things are done if the engine is intended to be sold to 3rd party developers. ive also seen source code from engines where this was not the case and its usually all mashed together.

i want to say this engine is kind of in between. its a beta engine (or so ive heard) that has been heavily modified by pgi, presumably by outside programmers on contract with pgi. mwll on the other hand did pretty well with a stock og crysis engine.

[Rhaythe]

Dunno why I'm bothering to be serious in this thread.

MWO runs on a heavily modified Crytek Engine. I'm assuming they purchased the license and received the full developer's kit, then started from there. Given the inability or unwillingness to upgrade to the latest CryEngine version^{(citation needed)}, I would say that much of their game logic has been programmed deep into the CryEngine game loop. Given that Russ is friends with CryTek people on Twitter and regularly communicates with them, I would assume a working relationship between the houses is common and that PGI historically has received help as needed (or as afforded).

We can draw assumptions on how much of the game is organized based on the libraries it ships with (how the resources are loaded into paks). I'm assuming most assets must at least be exported at runtime, if not outright loaded to account for the many different mech configurations. These paks are huge, which is probably why this game has such an intensive RAM load requirement.

In any case, calling MWO a "mod" is pretty disingenuous. The original Half-Life ran on a heavily modified Quake engine. Doesn't make it a "mod".

[General Taskeen]

Does it matter at this point who wrote the code then or now for the worst, most featureless MW title in the franchise. Hurray for freemium antics.  Even Mech Assault, the must have Xbox title in the past, was more competently coded as a complete game.

Edited by General Taskeen, 23 May 2016 - 05:24 AM.

[Jetfire]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 04:17 AM, said:

I don't think they got/could afford much Crytek official support, (funnily enough, even with that, Roberts has had to recreate and modify hugely the majority of the code for this "poorly chosen" engine) ... so why do people give PGI such crap for using Cryengine (at the time much more affordable than Unreal) but Chris Roberts gets a pass for the same code and largely the same issues?

Given I am over $1K into each of these CryEngine games this is my reasoning for a differential criticism.

MWO has continually mixed messaging, I will give PGI the benefit of the doubt that IGP was a big part of the problem, but they were making a habit of over promising and under delivering all while asking very high prices for F2P content. They launched into Open Beta very early and they launched the game as live early. We are just starting to get to the point that I would call this thing launch ready. I do not doubt that they are surviving on a lower cash flow but just the overall feeling I get from the program is they have difficulty with the basic process of design, test, implement, market, support.

CGI on the other hand made it very clear up front how huge of a task this was going to be, on top of that they made enormous efforts to both show what was being worked on, what the issues were and when they expected things to work. They have been up and running for less time and have delivered more progress. It might just be attributable to the larger cash flow but I doubt it. Just having money doesn't make everything happen.

Either way I support both projects a lot, I just have a few more points of criticism for PGI over CGI.

[Sir Wulfrick]

I don't know how true this is, so take it with a pinch of condiment, but legend has it that one of the original programmers (specifically the chap who wrote the ammo code) was Icelandic and therefore wrote all his code documentation in his native language. He subsequently left PGI for pastures new, and now nobody at PGI can read the code documents. Hence, no ammo swapping.

Not sure if anyone's thought of using google translate...

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Navid A1, on 23 May 2016 - 12:49 AM, said:

Does anyone know anything on this?

Did PGI write the MWO code from scratch?
or did they purchased an already stable build and began editing the code as a mod team?

#Lostech

[KuroNyra]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 04:17 AM, said:

so why do people give PGI such crap for using Cryengine (at the time much more affordable than Unreal) but Chris Roberts gets a pass for the same code and largely the same issues?

Money, and prestige.

[MadcatX]

Jetfire, on 23 May 2016 - 05:27 AM, said:

CGI on the other hand made it very clear up front how huge of a task this was going to be, on top of that they made enormous efforts to both show what was being worked on, what the issues were and when they expected things to work. They have been up and running for less time and have delivered more progress. It might just be attributable to the larger cash flow but I doubt it. Just having money doesn't make everything happen.

Either way I support both projects a lot, I just have a few more points of criticism for PGI over CGI.

Although I agree, I find both companies as well as many F2P and actually to an extent the AAA industry having big issues with both scope bloat and not creating deadlines. Every time I hear a dev team refer to their game as one of those "always work in progress" games, can't help but sigh. As much as I'm looking forward to Squadron 42, they've changed their minds 3 times on release dates and content.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

We dont. We may never know either.
PGI lost the ability to write new code over a period of almost 300 years of conflict.
When Smith and Tinker left Mech Warrior they took with them the best stompy robot code ever known to mankind.
Now house Russ and house Paul have teamed up in an attempt to bully the rest of the...

Wait, I think I got the stories mixed up

[Amsro]

Cold Fix incoming, used to be hot fixes, but ain't nobody got time for that.