174 replies to this topic

[Thunder Child]

MechaBattler, on 22 December 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

Now let's get an IS omnimech for comparison, andddd go!

I'll be honest, I really don't think Inner Sphere Omni's will hold a candle to Clan ones. Especially if they have comparative quirks to Clan Omnis. Avatar vs Summoner, GO!

[Milocinia]

To be fair, as a non-Twosie pilot (the only mech pack I haven't bought into), I don't have any regrets for not buying into it. If i had the choice between the Twosie and the appalling Res2 then I would have chosen Twosie though.

I did say quite loudly upon the inception of Twosie that they wouldn't actually be overpowered because of the lack of omnipods, which on clam mechs is quite a nasty restriction. Much more than locked engine sizes imo. When facing them on the battlefield I don't see them as under or overpowered. I think they're quite a good addition to the clam stable and offers a different degree of customisation of equal ability to clam omnis.

Like I said though, if it was between Twosie and Res2, I would have bought Twosie. As it stands, I still won't be purchasing Twosie as a cash pack but may pick up a Hunch IIc when they're released for ceebies.

[Amsro]

Alistair Winter, on 22 December 2015 - 02:59 PM, said:

MRW I'm watching the pro-Clan fanboys and the pro-IS fanboys yell to each other about balance, while I have a IS account and separate Clan account and think balance between factions is fine:

For sure the best it has ever been.

If the IIC mechs need some help there is always quirks. Can't believe I just said that, better then nothing I guess.

Edited by Amsro, 22 December 2015 - 05:57 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Thunder Child, on 22 December 2015 - 04:53 PM, said:

I like my Hunchback IIC. It plays just like my Hunchback-4G did before Clans showed up, only now with DUBLE DA DAKKA!!!!

The only thing I wish they would do, is give it a quirk that lets it fire both 20s. I mean seriously, it's bad enough that double-tapping a UAC20 triggers ghost heat, but when you've got two of them in a mech that has the equivalent armor of an Urbanmech (fully armored. The power of quirks man), and the only way you're gonna do anything in a match is to burn through that 3 tons of ammo as fast as possible? Yeah. I don't mind the Glass-Cannon. I just want to be able to actually fire it BEFORE it shatters.

................ not wanting to be disrespectful...but ... it really doesn't.

[Zordicron]

sycocys, on 22 December 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

IIC are new - and new = every single person on the enemy team focusing fire trying to kill the new mech first.

Happenens(ed) with every single mech except the Cheetah which most people just gave up on after a short time of dealing with its initial brokenness. So yeah, of course it's going to feel weak when every time you poke your face out you have 120-500+ points of alpha flying your direction.

I think that this is a little different this time around.

yeah people are going to prioritize the "2-cees", but they do that because

They pack the potential for ooga booga firepower
They generally can be taken out more quickly then some other clan mechs, and other IS mechs also.

When you combine those two things, it makes sense to nuke them early to prevent their potential cray cray "support fire" from ruinating your team. I mean I have seen loadouts for the HGN with 80+ alphas with heat friendly ratings. You really gonna let a mech that can unload 80+ dmg, sustainably, do what it wants while you focus down that dmg spreading TBR running 80KPH instead? Course not. Nobody with half a clue is either. The ones without half a clue.... well those are the matches where people report back they are getting 800+ dmg in before elites are unlocked.


In general, IMO the mechs are fine, coming from my perspective of shooting at them. Jenner dies like a normal Jenner, at roughly the same pace. IMO thats actually generous on PGI's part as the firepower potential is stupid on those things.
HBK's might die a little bit too quick- if the pilot has decided to try to face tank you to use his "superior dakka" on you. Players using the HBK's in a more normal medium mech fashion appear to not suffer from this early demise.

HGN's have been wicked dangerous IMO unless they get focused. You let them live till the end of thee match, they gonna have a big impact on the match.

Those orions... well I only have seen one lol. Doesn;t appear to popular at the moment.

So yeah, they look just peachy to me, seems like some people were expecting God mode armageddon dispensers and got let down.

[El Bandito]

I'm gonna buy the Hunchie-IIC and the Highlander-IIC, then show you what a real pilot can do with those. Many screenshots will follow.

[Sandpit]

Yea op?

Wanna know what ticks ME off? Since you assumed we all wanted to know your personal pet peeve. Threads like this dominate the front page and constructive threads get buried on page 3+ just so people can post duplicate threads and click bait trolling threads and repeat everything they've already said in regards to balance. Take your pick, there's some good threads with good ideas. Those are the ones that these dilute and cause to be very hard to follow. It gets tiring repeating the exact same thing over and over

It also makes it very difficulty to come up with clear concise ideas to present to PGI.

[Bishop Steiner]

Eldagore, on 22 December 2015 - 05:54 PM, said:

Those orions... well I only have seen one lol. Doesn;t appear to popular at the moment.

So yeah, they look just peachy to me, seems like some people were expecting God mode armageddon dispensers and got let down.

First hint something isn't "just fine"? You don't see them on the battlefield.

Anti Clan bias might be peaking just a skosh.

El Bandito, on 22 December 2015 - 06:01 PM, said:

I'm gonna buy the Hunchie-IIC and the Highlander-IIC, then show you what a real pilot can do with those. Many screenshots will follow.

So who you gonna hire to run your account?

[El Bandito]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2015 - 06:02 PM, said:

First hint something isn't "just fine"? You don't see them on the battlefield.

Anti Clan bias might be peaking just a skosh.

Nah, it simply proves that Timberwolves and Stormcrows are not nerfed enough. They are still indisputably T1, among both factions.

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2015 - 06:02 PM, said:

So who you gonna hire to run your account?

Someone better than the average pug. They do not seem to realize that the IIC mechs require... ...special touch.



Except the Orion IIC. That mech might as well be Reflector--the bot that can turn into a bloody camera.

Edited by El Bandito, 22 December 2015 - 06:21 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

El Bandito, on 22 December 2015 - 06:07 PM, said:

Nah, it simply proves that Timberwolves and Stormcrows are not nerfed enough. They are still indisputably T1, among both factions.



Someone better than the average pug. They do not seem to realize that the IIC mechs require... ...special touch.

can you demonstrate on the paperdoll just WHERE you plan to touch them?

[Steinar Bergstol]

I like the original post because sometimes blatant mindbending stupidity is hillarious to watch.

Edited by Steinar Bergstol, 22 December 2015 - 06:17 PM.

[Kassatsu]

Grimm Peaper, on 22 December 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

I get a good laugh at the herp derp comments from the pro-IS/nerf-the-p2w-clans crowd now that one of "thiers" got the clan treatment so that they can finally pilot a clan equipped mech and OMG, hell froze over, wow, the clan version kinda, y'know, s.u.c.k.s.

I keep reading comments like:

• Man, IIC mechs die so easily. I feel like a glass cannon. [myth: Clan XL provides god mode survivability. IS structure buffs easily equal Clan XL side blow out]
  
• Man, IIC mechs are so sluggish [myth: Clan mechs get free agility buffs from their engines. They forget that clan mechs pay for it in huge tonnage costs. Yes clans get the speed at XL tonnage costs, but most clan mechs are so over-buffed on engine that they have small payloads for weapons. Take a look at the gargoyle, Executioner, shadowcat, etc. The only exception is the Direwolf and it pays for it with ridiculous turn rate/angle. You know what is a free agility buff? Free agility Quirk buffs that cost no tonnage. Once you start lowering the engine to get more tonnage for more weapons, your agility loses out.]
  
• Man, where are ma' quirks [IS pilots are addicted to quirks. It's expected now. It's like my kids who can't conceive of a world without the internet or cell phones. Not having quirks is like an ice bucket shower to them. No quirks, trivial/token quirks or even negative quirks are what the other clan mechs get.]
  
• Man, they are gonna add quirks right? Eventually? [Unless things radically change, clans mechs only ever get trivial quirks, if any at all. You're not going to get IS level structure and accel/decel quirks on your IIC mechs. Sorry. Just no. LOL. If you want that extra maneuverability, pay for it with engine tonnage like all the other clan mechs. As for structure quirks, you're just gonna have to live with that. Hate to break it to ya, but yeah.....]
  
• Man, I paid good RL money for these, now I feel ripped off [You should. You got exactly what you deserved, which is a taste of your own medicine. Karma is a @#$(. You reap what you sow.]

I could go on and on about the innate heatsink buffs to IS, the extra tonnage in CW, the lower burn time on their lasers, etc but I know that the clan-nerf-lobyists will never get enough. They often only compare a single facet of IS vs Clan and omg, clan weapons weigh less, and never consider all the other buffs they get or their ridiculous quirks. I just wanted to enjoy a good laugh for a bit. Oh the irony, or should I say, oh the Grid Irony....

Keep in mind IS mechs are heavily quirked to add a ridiculous amount of extra HP on account of how weak they were. Many clan mechs do not have these HP buffs.

IIC mechs have zero quirks of any kind.

[Moldur]

While OP is obviously alittle heated, I think he has a point.

IICs are the most direct comparison we have in the game between IS and clans. Less so for the Jenner and Hunchback, more so for the Orion and Highlander, since their hardpoints AND shape mirror their IS counterparts pretty closely. Before this, there was nothing we could compare between IS and Clans that are directly across from each other, so to speak.

Most of us weigh the pros and cons of each side, aren't fanatical or anything, but for some reason the balance PGI chooses is always that the IS must get stronger and the clans must get weaker. Now that the factor of chassis shape is controlled between IICs being more or less the same shape as their original, we see that there are other factors besides Clan tech that make or break mechs. For instance, those sweet structure and mobility quirks are apparently a lot more valuable than some clan tech when your mech has an awful shape. Maybe some chassis are just good, even if we could equip anything from any faction on any mech. Some would rise to the top and others wouldn't.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Grimm Peaper, on 22 December 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

They often only compare a single facet of IS vs Clan and omg, clan weapons weigh less, and never consider all the other buffs they get or their ridiculous quirks.

Nobody reasonable has ever said Clan mechs are just outright better than IS mechs across the board. The problem with IS mechs is that the variants with all those goodies you allude to that even the playing field are outnumbered by pub quality variants 10:1.

Want to elite the WVR-6K? Ok, you've got to play at least two mediocre variants, and all three variants have completely different playstyles. When you're done you can just sell the other two since they're not even of value to a drop deck... Unlike Clan mechs where the only difference between variants are the CT quirks and hardpoints, allowing you to both optimize and repeat hardpoint layouts across an entire chassis.

Compare how this translates to the actual dollar value of Clan packs vs. IS packs. Each Clan pack has, at the minimum, given one great chassis. IS packs typically only have 1-2 good variants.

R1 + R2 have only yielded the ENF-4R and BL-7-KNT-L as "high meta", while Clans have gotten the HBR, EBJ, ACH.

Whether you agree or not about whether those specific mechs are good, or that it's not limited to those, what is fundamentally problematic in this discussion is that we discuss clan chassis as being good or bad, while IS mechs can only be discussed in terms of good variants. This experience is essentially what is cropping up with the Origins pack.

Because of how we talk of good Clan chassis vs. good IS variants, we also abstract the discussion of general balance in a factional sense, since at the very least Clan players are given the option of eliting a mech with one loadout. This not only pays greater dividends on actual time spent improving your mechanical skill, but it also allows the player to really optimize that loadout to a greater degree than an IS player.

The only mechs that offer an organically "good" chassis in the way that Clans players might understand it are the BLR-, BJ-, and FS9-.



in any case, this is Straw Man: the thread.

Edited by vnlk65n, 22 December 2015 - 06:56 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

is it funny that the orion IIC has a standard engine?

[-Vompo-]

It is almost like the IIC mechs were not the same as the original IS mechs. Who would have known they cannot just make the IIC's as tough as the IS ones and just give them higher damage output.

IIC: More firepower, faster
IS originals: more durable (if using standard engine), better pinpoint

Could it be that you need to pilot them differently?

Edited by VompoVompatti, 22 December 2015 - 06:59 PM.

[Sandpit]

VompoVompatti, on 22 December 2015 - 06:58 PM, said:

It is almost like the IIC mechs were not the same as the original IS mechs. Who would have known they cannot just make the IIC's as tough as the IS ones and just give them higher damage output.

IIC: More firepower, faster
IS originals: more durable (if using standard engine), better pinpoint

Could it be that you need to pilot them differently?

pretty well sums it up

[Thunder Child]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

................ not wanting to be disrespectful...but ... it really doesn't.

You're not being disrespectful. It DOES play just like my HBK-4G did before quirks. The torsos just evaporate, while I frantically mash the firing stud, hoping to get one last shot off before I go down.
The big difference between then and now however, is that now I actually know what I am doing....
So no, it's not a great mech.
But like the 4G, it's a FUN mech.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

VompoVompatti, on 22 December 2015 - 06:58 PM, said:

It is almost like the IIC mechs were not the same as the original IS mechs. Who would have known they cannot just make the IIC's as tough as the IS ones and just give them higher damage output.

IIC: More firepower, faster
IS originals: more durable (if using standard engine), better pinpoint

Could it be that you need to pilot them differently?

theyre supposed to be walking coffins -.- google sarna

[Kuritaclan]

What i really like to see is 12 mans going up against each other in a 10 game match of. 5times for one side to have the is mechs and the other IICs and vice versa with 3 of each chassis on each side. (3 jenner, 3 hbks, 3 orions and 3 highlander) After this we have more of a cleue, how perfomance of the IICs is compared to IS ancestry.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 22 December 2015 - 07:40 PM.