174 replies to this topic

[B0oN]

So, finally all the bads calling "Clans OP, Nerf PLS!" finally see what they did and how overboard they went with it ?
Doubt it, but anyway, here goes :


D´awwwww, you poooooor, pooor little kittens .

Now the only thing that is left for all o´youse is to cry and whine and ***** and moan as hard against IS as you guys did against Clans .
Go.
Dont be shy .
Jut do what you do best, whiney brats .

[V O L T R O N]

Listening to this clan vs ifs ******** garbage in a thread that is focused on the 2c mechs is hilarious. Being a pilot that plays both and loves both sides and finds the game pretty balanced except for these mechs. Its like listening to war mongers talk about how much better their country is than the others. Or racist people argue with one another, or a salary baseball team vs a team that built a farm system team.

At the end of the day we are all on the same side when it comes to balance. One day you may own a mech you want balanced.

[Wildstreak]

Having bought the first 2 levels, I found where the Hunchback IIC works, people just have to not play it like the IS version or it is not for them. I started a thread for it.

The Jenner I blame on my inability to drive super-fast Mechs and a few other things. I would either have to slow them down or get rid of them. I just cannot make them work like I do the Cheetah.

Grimm Peaper, on 22 December 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

• Man, I paid good RL money for these, now I feel ripped off [You should. You got exactly what you deserved, which is a taste of your own medicine. Karma is a @#$(. You reap what you sow.]

So much for the myth of Mechs people paid for being OP before MC/CB release. Wait, that was never completely true.

Grimm Peaper, on 22 December 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

You'd still lack the quirks...

Don't need them depending on the pilot playstyle.

Baron Von Hunchback, on 22 December 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

I have 2 accounts too-and I know which set of mechs performs better...and it ain't the clans. My Is HBKs decimate my clan ones. Should they?

How are you playing the IIC versions? If the same way, then probably.

Edited by Wildstreak, 23 December 2015 - 06:58 AM.

[Clownwarlord]

OK ... I don't know how every one feels about the mechs that have recently come out; the Marauder, Jenner IIC, Hunchback IIC, Orion IIC, and Highlander IIC. Well having played a few of them the Mauraders and the Highlander IIC, but yet to have played the Hunchback and Jenner IICs (but I will and will update this).

The feeling I am getting from personal play and others who's opinion I trust because I play along side them in group que or CW is that the Marauder is for real. The Marauder while it has side torso issues and should not have an xl engine in it. It is a beast, torso twisting off damage and can carry a payload worth of the lore. In the hands of an in-experienced player or pilot it is not a mech I would suggest a new person to test their teeth on. In the hands of an experienced player though this mech can turn the tide of a match through sheer will and pilot skill. So to PGI thank you for taking a mech many called DOA and making it worthy of its lore.

Now as for the Highlander IIC I tried every brawler build I could think of; srms, ballistics, and pulses. But everything I tried it was just to slow in torso twisting. The jump jets where still hover jets even though I crammed every single JJ in that it would take. Now my suggestion for this mech is lrm missile boat ... I know it hurts to say it and use it as an lrm boat, but let me finish!!! The highlander IIC can carry lrms and ammo for the lrms, and still have plenty of space left over for brawling weapons. Will this mech ever be good for competitive ... no but it will be usable in solo, group, and CW. Why because you will have plenty of space for lrms to shoot all day, and then brawl out till you finally die (if you die). So again build a tweener an lrm and brawler for these new highlaner IICs.

The other two I will not speak on from personal experiance but from what I heard. Jenner IIC is just like the original Jenners ... so if you are a good light or jenner player have fun if not then well your not going to enjoy what they are.

The Orion IICs, while this mech is basically the Orions with a clan xl its best builds are the lrm boats again. BUT like the highlander it gains from clan tech in the ability to carry some brawling weapons as well as those lrms.

*************************
To the talk of clan players saying quirks are OP, not entirely true, but on some mechs yes. The range quirks those mechs are hit and miss and then they run hot. Quad ER Large Battlemaster 1S, Triple ER Large BJ-1DC,Dual ER Large Raven 4x. I own all tried them all in CW they do work well but outside of CW and maps that are built for sniping ... these mechs are not effective.

To the talk that clan xl is OP, well it is. BUT the clans have suffered in other ways, they lose a side torso they lose 20% ability (to torso twist and to speed). Living still is OP from losing a side torso but this penalty has brought it in.

Laser vomit is still meta, this will most likely never change, being able to boat lasers is just way more effective than other weapon systems. My suggestion is maybe pull off some of the penalties on Streaks, SRMs, and ballistics (clan and IS) to help give other options. Now comp players might find a new meta with that or they might stay with laser vomit but it gives others who use other weapon systems a chance. (This would need a great amount of research to find a viable solution.)

[Russhuster]

your sentence about these chassis be in need of quirks

Quote

Don't need them depending on the pilot playstyle.

is the peak of smartness

so may i ask why the IS brothers of these mechs do need quirks then?
in egalitere profonde shouldnt it say then
They dont need these quirks neither? depending on theyr playstyle??

so i think your argumentation lline is a little thin and scrappy there

[Lily from animove]

V O L T R O N, on 23 December 2015 - 05:12 AM, said:

Im sure you re a terrible pilot considering I have never ever ever seen you in one drop.

you entire personality is like exactly that above, you talk things (and can't remember them) and they are simply not true. We even just a few days before spoke about one match on frozen city. http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4868973
Or is this covered with the words of "never ever" if so I may need a new dictionary for V O L T R O N <--> english, since you seem to use workds in a different context than the usual english does.

The worst part about this post truly is how you think I took that Screenshot because of you, lol as you were some kind of celebrety or somthing. The way you think of yourself, speak about yourself is just very egocentric. Seriously, what made you think I took this screen because of you?

But it gets hard for people to take serious what you write when you contradict yourself. Your sayings and your doings contradict very very often. And thats porbably the only remarkable I have gotten out of your person a the moment by being abit mroe active in the forum again the past 3 weeks.. Unlike you I am not doing this, I don't constantly say these kind of things.
And your tourney scores, so thats what make sit up as one of the proofes? ohh wait, lemme go back in history of MWO.
The first one is the NVA ranking of the "Chassis challange", the other is from the "IS vs clan II" event



So much experience you have, yet you say you don't know anything about me? in that case I would say you have either memory issues or just not a good habit of aquiring information and keeping them. But this basically would questioning why all those games you racked up left you with so less knowledge about the past. Probably you just play too much, because if I see alone your "wins" in the signature and would divide this by the lifetime of MWO, wow you must not do much else than playing this game all day since the game exists.

The difference between me and you is just the "seriousness" of ou MWO lives. You play this game a LAOD I not so often in cmparison, thats why I "missed" alot challanges by just not havign time, since I have a family with kids and a lot other games I play. I am not focused on MWO, nr do i ahve the cosntant need to flail my sucesses around, sicne this does give me nothing in terms of statisfaction or whatever drives the "competitve crowds"

YOU don't know who I am ingame? doesn't cares. I had requests after these tourneys from people of the competitve scene to join there units. But I denied it, because I a just not in the mood or situation to "work" the competitve way all the time. It kilsl the "fun" in a game. And with fun i do not mean the kind of fun you may define, because your kind of fun is what a competitive gamer describes as fun. I don't need 30k+ games to be good, nor do I need to "proof" statements like "at least 500dmg" or "the best" because I never do say tese things. Unlike you, who does. While as you said in this thread you also have low score matches when you try to lead a push and it fails. Yes that happens, but how does it makes sense then, that you do write two compeltely contradicting things? This is a general issue you have on your side. Making weird statements that do not fit together by logic.

Call me cargabe out of your mood. I call most of what you say garbage, because I brought in some threads just counter facts that your words were wrong. One method here is salty, the other is based on facts. But hey keep doing so, I am quite sure it will imporve your credibility amongst the other people who can read and compare facts.

Edited by Lily from animove, 23 December 2015 - 07:43 AM.

[nehebkau]

@OP

I think my IIC Jenners are awesome.... but i used to play jenners before the quirkening.

[Steve Pryde]

Alistair Winter, on 22 December 2015 - 02:59 PM, said:

MRW I'm watching the pro-Clan fanboys and the pro-IS fanboys yell to each other about balance, while I have a IS account and separate Clan account and think balance between factions is fine:

Hope we can seperate is- and clan-mechs to different accounts in the future.

[Nightmare1]

The OP seems a bit...eccentric...

He also seem misinformed. Some of his info doesn't sound right at all, and the IIC Mechs are Clan Tech, not IS.

[Psycho Icon]

I forgot I have to block lily on two different accounts

Lily from animove, on 23 December 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

Those are very very low scores, and probably from the beginning of a tourney. Most tourneys in with above

3k.

Did you not look at my VOLTRON scores from last event or even Psycho Icon from older events. We're on different levels, sorry mate, try harder.

Edited by Psycho Icon, 23 December 2015 - 08:10 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Psycho Icon, on 23 December 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

I forgot I have to block lily on two different accounts

Those are very very low scores, and probably from the beginning of a tourney. Most tourneys in with above

3k.

Did you not look at my VOLTRON scores from last event or even Psycho Icon from older events. We're on different levels, sorry mate, try harder.

you are facepalm worthy, seriously,

Again just misinformation of nonsense talking people, because you were just too lazy to trying to validate the nonsense you talked.

1st you can still see these endstats, just scroll through the tournament lists.
Second they were done with the OLD score formula in the old Scoring system, which is why they are lower.

Edited by Lily from animove, 23 December 2015 - 08:16 AM.

[WarHippy]

Grimm Peaper, on 22 December 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

I get a good laugh at the herp derp comments from the pro-IS/nerf-the-p2w-clans crowd now that one of "thiers" got the clan treatment so that they can finally pilot a clan equipped mech and OMG, hell froze over, wow, the clan version kinda, y'know, s.u.c.k.s.

I keep reading comments like:

• Man, IIC mechs die so easily. I feel like a glass cannon. [myth: Clan XL provides god mode survivability. IS structure buffs easily equal Clan XL side blow out]
  
• Man, IIC mechs are so sluggish [myth: Clan mechs get free agility buffs from their engines. They forget that clan mechs pay for it in huge tonnage costs. Yes clans get the speed at XL tonnage costs, but most clan mechs are so over-buffed on engine that they have small payloads for weapons. Take a look at the gargoyle, Executioner, shadowcat, etc. The only exception is the Direwolf and it pays for it with ridiculous turn rate/angle. You know what is a free agility buff? Free agility Quirk buffs that cost no tonnage. Once you start lowering the engine to get more tonnage for more weapons, your agility loses out.]
  
• Man, where are ma' quirks [IS pilots are addicted to quirks. It's expected now. It's like my kids who can't conceive of a world without the internet or cell phones. Not having quirks is like an ice bucket shower to them. No quirks, trivial/token quirks or even negative quirks are what the other clan mechs get.]
  
• Man, they are gonna add quirks right? Eventually? [Unless things radically change, clans mechs only ever get trivial quirks, if any at all. You're not going to get IS level structure and accel/decel quirks on your IIC mechs. Sorry. Just no. LOL. If you want that extra maneuverability, pay for it with engine tonnage like all the other clan mechs. As for structure quirks, you're just gonna have to live with that. Hate to break it to ya, but yeah.....]
  
• Man, I paid good RL money for these, now I feel ripped off [You should. You got exactly what you deserved, which is a taste of your own medicine. Karma is a @#$(. You reap what you sow.]

I could go on and on about the innate heatsink buffs to IS, the extra tonnage in CW, the lower burn time on their lasers, etc but I know that the clan-nerf-lobyists will never get enough. They often only compare a single facet of IS vs Clan and omg, clan weapons weigh less, and never consider all the other buffs they get or their ridiculous quirks. I just wanted to enjoy a good laugh for a bit. Oh the irony, or should I say, oh the Grid Irony....



Edit: Added quotes per request...



IIC mechs suck:










Clan XL will not save you:







IIC mechs should have quirks:


IIC mechs will eventually get quirks:

[Wildstreak]

reign, on 23 December 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

All you have to do is look at the current faction map. People play to the strongest mechs / meta. And clan IIC is not it.

Not really meta in CW, it is Jade Wolves vs two thirds the IS.
Hardly proof of one side stronger than the other.

[Wildstreak]

Russhuster, on 23 December 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:

your sentence about these chassis be in need of quirks

is the peak of smartness

so may i ask why the IS brothers of these mechs do need quirks then?
in egalitere profonde shouldnt it say then
They dont need these quirks neither? depending on theyr playstyle??

so i think your argumentation lline is a little thin and scrappy there

Not really.
I do think quirks overall got out of hand from what was asked for and expected by some in the community.
I do think some quirks make you wonder WTF happened. Example, quirk passes recently of Blackjack vs Vindicator.
I also factor in the different tech. Despite Dec. 1 changes, Clans still have weapons with better range, a better XL engine, more room for DHS (2 slot Clan vs 3 slot IS) and some tech IS does not get (wider range of Ultras and LBX, all sizes of Streaks, etc.) so building the IICs means using that, something harder to do with the IS versions.

Compare the Hunchbacks.

The IIC A to the 4P. Favorite of most is the brawly 4P striker with lots of short range lasers, the IIC A can mount 1 less but get better range off the ones in the top mounts.
IIC B vs 4J/4SP. IIC LRM I don't see because of rules I follow building LRM boats, the B doesn't fit even though I see people try it. Either Streaks but you need lock and have slow cooldown or SRMs though you have to pause here and there to cool off. 4J/4SP can do either LRM or SRM good, the SRM build also has to cool off sometimes. Right now I think the B is the tough variant to run unless you are really good at the Alpha and Fade tactic.
IIC C vs 4H because they both have more Energy mounts. 4H is tougher to kill but the IIC C can put out more damage at range.
IIC Base vs 4G. See IIC C vs 4H.

IIC Hunchbacks also have the jump advantage not on the IS ones and I do not see some Hunchback IIC players using this to its full effect.

I thnk part of the problem is psychology, specifically some people are conditioned to look the these and think they are just like the IS missing certain details. The psychology term for this is called being stuck in certain behavior/thinking.

[Mcgral18]

Ghogiel, on 23 December 2015 - 01:57 AM, said:

Yeah it's pretty sad. Blowing it up out of proportion is almost as sad as picking one single item from an entire list of connected items.

Would you prefer I call him an idiot?
Everything on the list is wrong.

Russhuster, on 23 December 2015 - 02:26 AM, said:

in looking just at the blank numbers the nerf does not look that bad but when you consider the Clan heat penaltys in summa you may possibly overthink your answer
And Yes an Assault mech with more DHS suffers way more from that

in your last sentence i DO actually find congruence in our thoughts
I too am amused each time when people say ridiculous things, without actually thinking about the impact.

Yeah, how about I fix everything wrong with your first post, since you're being a smartass.

Russhuster, on 23 December 2015 - 01:27 AM, said:

@ Widowmaker
you state the IIC Mechs wouldnt have any quirks .. well thats not quite true

As all clan mechs they suffer from the hidden negative quirks and penaltys all clan mechs have to cope with
as there are:


and last but not least the Clan UAC bug and the Clan PPC Bug what are not nerfs per se but known bugs what are not fixed for years now, so as a Clan player you have to cope with these

considering this the IIC s are not having quirks of positive kind but a quite nasty pack of Nerfs already

and how many Heatsinks with IS single heatsink capacity do you need or can you put into a Hunchback IIC to cope with the higher heat of the bugy Clan PPCs? that tend to fire through the target inflicting absolutely NO damage but the heat you get delivered for sure

Quote

the -20% agility Nerf (via the skilltree)

Blanket nerfing every mech in the game, not every IS chassis has agility quirks, you know

Quote

the heat Nerf by stomping the Clan double heat sink to single heatsink Capacity ( Clan Double cap. 1.1 needing 2 spaces IS single cap 1.0 needing 1 space with same weight)

Already discussed, utter rubbish, a generally 6% nerf and 3% boost when you have 25DHS. Completely marginal.

Quote

the heat Penalty Nerf for all Clan mechs

Talking about 6 heat ERMLs? Should have gone the 6 damage 5 heat route.

Quote

the Ghostheat penaltys what IS doesnt has at all in that dimension

Again, I'll have to ask you to look objectively. What does the 2LPL GH limit allow? 26 damage at 600M, for 12 tons. 20 heat
The IS LL? 27 damage at 450M, for 15 tons. 21 heat
The isLPL? 33 damage at 350M, at 21 tons. 21 heat

Oh, what a terrible sacrifice it has to make...it has to boat ERMLs on top of LPLs to easily breach 30 damage for less tonnage.

Quote

the longer burntime and larger Salvos and resulting high jamchance

Sorry, this one is especially idiotic.

In a quirkless environment, only 2 'Sphere lasers deal more damage than their Clam counterpart in the shorter IS burn time: the isLPL and isMPL. That's it. I really hate this argument because of that.
cERML? Deals more damage in 0.9s than the isML. Deal with it.

Quirks are the only thing that changes that.

What the hell are you saying about cUACs? They have the same jam chance, and only one jam roll per trigger pull. Spreading ********, are you?
There isn't a jam chance for each pellet.

Quote

and last but not least the Clan UAC bug and the Clan PPC Bug what are not nerfs per se but known bugs what are not fixed for years now, so as a Clan player you have to cope with these

Look at all these well known bugs....which are?
No idea what you're talking about. Hitreg?

Edited by Mcgral18, 23 December 2015 - 09:33 AM.

[JC Daxion]

I don't understand.. they are Clan mechs???


But either way.. after just a couple days, because they aren't super over powered, they are failures? It takes me well to master before i even find a mechs groove.. I certainly would not give up after a few days..

Unless of course all you play are timber wolves.. then why bother with anything else anyway? And honestly, i don't see how anyone can complain about a timber wolf nerf.. coming from someone that never played them till after the nerf.. It is still my highest KDR mech, and the thing is as strong as my best IS mechs easy..

I will still rock my IS mechs.. and play lowly Adders and Novas too

Edited by JC Daxion, 23 December 2015 - 09:30 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Mcgral18, on 23 December 2015 - 09:22 AM, said:

Everything on the list is wrong.

Already discussed, utter rubbish, a generally 6% nerf and 3% boost when you have 25DHS. Completely marginal.

Again, I'll have to ask you to look objectively. What does the 2LPL GH limit allow? 26 damage at 600M, for 12 tons. 20 heat
The IS LL? 27 damage at 450M, for 15 tons. 21 heat
The isLPL? 33 damage at 350M, at 21 tons. 21 heat

Oh, what a terrible sacrifice it has to make...it has to boat ERMLs on top of LPLs to easily breach 30 damage for less tonnage.

Quirks are the only thing that changes that.

What the hell are you saying about cUACs? They have the same jam chance, and only one jam roll per trigger pull. Spreading ********, are you?
There isn't a jam chance for each pellet.

It is so weird and hard to discus with people who do not undertsand the mechanics and are not able to even objectively compare stuff. So many threads are filled with biased comparisons and very selective perception that it doesn't wonders why PGI isn't able to create a better balance. With this kind of feedback some give you have litereally no chance to break this wall made of misinformation hold together by a good portion of ignorance.

keep fighting mcgral, but I guess we need a bigger ram to break this wall.

JC Daxion, on 23 December 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:

I don't understand.. Are they Clan mechs??? (i thought they were clan mechs) Or Are they IS?


But either way.. after just a couple days, because they aren't super over powered, they are failures? It takes me well to master before i even find a mechs groove.. I certainly would not give up after a few days..

Unless of course all you play are timber wolves.. then why bother with anything else anyway? And honestly, i don't see how anyone can complain about a timber wolf nerf.. coming from someone that never played them till after the nerf.. It is still my highest KDR mech, and the thing is as strong as my best IS mechs easy..

I will still rock my IS mechs.. and play lowly Adders and Novas too

They are clanmechs, but battlemechs. Battelmechs is a construction rule type, no pod switching and such, so hardpoints stay how they are, but therefore full engine and upgrade customisation.

the issue is PGI's focus on IS vs clanbalance by techbalance, which can't work by how much many chassis differ between each other, neither on clanside nor on IS side.

Edited by Lily from animove, 24 December 2015 - 12:40 AM.

[JC Daxion]

Lily from animove, on 23 December 2015 - 09:34 AM, said:

It is so weird and hard to discus with people who do not undertsand the mechanics and are not able to even objectively compare stuff. So many threads are filled with biased comparisons and very selective perception that it doesn't wonders why PGI isn't able to create a better balance. With this kind of feedback some give you have litereally no chance to break this wall made of misinformation hold together by a good portion of ignorance.

keep fighting mcgral, but I guess we need a bigger ram to break this wall.



They are clanmechs, but battlemechs. Battelmechs is a construction rule type, no pod switching and such, so hardpoints stay how they are, but therefore full engine and upgrade customisation.

the issue is PGI's focus on IS vs clanbalance by techbalance, which can't work by how much many chassis differ ebtween each other, neither on clanside nor on IS side.

right, thats what i thought..

My whole point is.. How can you call a mech a fail just a week after it hits.. Heck, maybe cause i am not the best of the best.. It takes me a while to get my groove on in any mech.. And if i stop playing it for a while, it takes me a while to get back into it, before i can get the best out of it.

I'd have to think they play different, between load outs, and different engine sizes, or JJ's and what not.. the Weapon systems play completely different, add in the other stuff, i'd think it would take a while to learn

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Alistair Winter, on 22 December 2015 - 02:59 PM, said:

MRW I'm watching the pro-Clan fanboys and the pro-IS fanboys yell to each other about balance, while I have a IS account and separate Clan account and think balance between factions is fine:

yea those roleplayers who have separate accounts for IS and Clan are rly funny.Also gimme popcorn NAOW.

I think Jenner IIC is pretty OP.Love streaks

[Lily from animove]

JC Daxion, on 23 December 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

right, thats what i thought..

My whole point is.. How can you call a mech a fail just a week after it hits.. Heck, maybe cause i am not the best of the best.. It takes me a while to get my groove on in any mech.. And if i stop playing it for a while, it takes me a while to get back into it, before i can get the best out of it.

I'd have to think they play different, between load outs, and different engine sizes, or JJ's and what not.. the Weapon systems play completely different, add in the other stuff, i'd think it would take a while to learn

As an experienced player you can most of the time tell this in advance by knowing the laodout and having some matches, it's not like the HBK is now a totally revolutionary new mechdesign, Its hardpoiints and weight and abilities do still exist. But it still requires playing to truly figure the placement of the mech out. Because geometry gives every mech a unqiue behavior that suits him, and some palces on the map that just this mech may take an advantage off. Tourmaline may be a nice spot to shoot over those crystals at many points and not getting retailfire die to how terrain aroudn the crystal lines is sometimes built.
And the second thing of course is release week + tournaments. They often alter the battlefields composition in terms of mechs and loadouts to the usual non release non torunament times.

So when people are done leveling their new mechs and probably go back to their old (maybe meta) machines it will show a lot more where the place of a chassis is truly. Many people still judge a mech way too early. Sometimes in matches stuff goes totally right, sometimes totally wrong, its not always the mechs fault. But both, extraordinary positive and negative exceptions are not what truly shows the place of a mech. But people being sad or disappointed tend to voice this more than people being happy, Thats why you hear more about fails than positive stuff.