125 replies to this topic

[Commander A9]

http://mwomercs.com/...e-pts-4-updated

Lasers
• Clan ERSmallLaser MaxRange reduced to 360 (400)
• Clan ERMediumLaser MaxRange reduced to 688 (810)
• Clan SmallPulseLaser MaxRange reduced to 297
• Clan MediumPulseLaser MaxRange reduced to 561

Clan Double Heat Sink capacity will be reduced from -1.4 to -1.1. This is reducing the maximum heat value for a 'Mech before it shuts down, not the speed at which it cools off.

Clan Mech XL Engines • When a Clan 'Mech loses a Side Torso, its Engine power is reduced by 20% for the rest of the match. This reduction applies to all factors affected by the Engine, such as turn rate, torso twist, and top speed.

I dislike these changes and reject them vehemently-this is where I stand.

---

I understand this is a test, but in the face of reduced laser ranges, ghost heat, no quirks or even negative quirks, reduced tonnage versus IS in Community Warfare, reduced maximum heat buildup, and now with this terrible proposal over XL engines, Clans are not 'easy mode.' And if you believe they are, I encourage you tell me how Clan mechs are better than Inner Sphere tech, other than coming standard with Ferro Fibrous and Endo-Steel...which only gives you more tonnage to play with at the expense of alot of slots.

Inner Sphere quirks are still so much more expansive and benefitting for Inner Sphere mechs, and they remain this way in PTS4. Clan quirks have been nerfs or have been nonexistant for the longest time, so what's the benefit of being on the Clans?

Have you seen a full 12-man of Inner Sphere pilots strap on nothing but ER Lasers on Boreal Vault and snipe down Clan mechs from well outside any Clan mechs' range? I have. You think that sounds balanced to you?

This round of nerfs is yet another attempt at PGI to bring "balance" to the game by making adjustments to technology and quirks as compensation for player skills, or lack thereof. The changes that we have witnessed are artificial supplements-or handicaps-designed to compensate for varying player skill sets rather than to fix anything that's actually broken or really needs fixing.

Was there truly anything "broken" with the game BEFORE the mass quirks, ghost heat, and major nerfs were applied?

I dare PGI to play nothing but Clan mechs for a week-THEN see what they have to say.

Edited by Commander A9, 20 November 2015 - 10:06 AM.

[Sydney Sender]

Every time i see a QQ I cant kill clan mechs i suck clan mechs are OP thread I have to ask myself if the ******** posting have ever even LOOKED at a clan mech's internal stats, you keep dying to clan mechs because you suck, not because clans are OP. Clan pilots OP. Completely agree with this post.

[o0Marduk0o]

All reasonable changes. Are you just bad at piloting clan mechs?

[Darian DelFord]

Commander A9, on 20 November 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...e-pts-4-updated

Lasers
• Clan ERSmallLaser MaxRange reduced to 360 (400)
• Clan ERMediumLaser MaxRange reduced to 688 (810)
• Clan SmallPulseLaser MaxRange reduced to 297
• Clan MediumPulseLaser MaxRange reduced to 561

Clan Double Heat Sink capacity will be reduced from -1.4 to -1.1. This is reducing the maximum heat value for a 'Mech before it shuts down, not the speed at which it cools off.

Clan Mech XL Engines • When a Clan 'Mech loses a Side Torso, its Engine power is reduced by 20% for the rest of the match. This reduction applies to all factors affected by the Engine, such as turn rate, torso twist, and top speed.

I dislike these changes and reject them vehemently-this is where I stand.

---

I understand this is a test, but in the face of reduced laser ranges, ghost heat, no quirks or even negative quirks, reduced tonnage versus IS in Community Warfare, reduced maximum heat buildup, and now with this terrible proposal over XL engines, Clans are not 'easy mode.' And if you believe they are, I encourage you tell me how Clan mechs are better than Inner Sphere tech, other than coming standard with Ferro Fibrous and Endo-Steel...which only gives you more tonnage to play with at the expense of alot of slots.

Inner Sphere quirks are still so much more expansive and benefitting for Inner Sphere mechs, and they remain this way in PTS4. Clan quirks have been nerfs or have been nonexistant for the longest time, so what's the benefit of being on the Clans?

Have you seen a full 12-man of Inner Sphere pilots strap on nothing but ER Lasers on Boreal Vault and snipe down Clan mechs from well outside any Clan mechs' range? I have. You think that sounds balanced to you?

This round of nerfs is yet another attempt at PGI to bring "balance" to the game by making adjustments to technology and quirks as compensation for player skills, or lack thereof. The changes that we have witnessed are artificial supplements-or handicaps-designed to compensate for varying player skill sets rather than to fix anything that's actually broken or really needs fixing.

Was there truly anything "broken" with the game BEFORE the mass quirks, ghost heat, and major nerfs were applied?

I dare PGI to play nothing but Clan mechs for a week-THEN see what they have to say.

Now you know what lights have been going through since closed beta ended.

[Fenrisian Wolf]

I completely agree with this forum post and I am glad someone posted the information in a tactful way because I could find a way of saying it without disrespecting those that are crying that my clan mechs are op. All joking aside (wasn't really joking) I own 20 mechs... 8 of those mechs being IS. I score same damage get same amount of kills in either IS or clan. My highest scoring match was in a Thunderbolt. MS regularly wipes the floor with either Clan or IS. In the end changes like this will continue to happen until PGI has completely given in to its casual player base who don't even know how to play CW. Eventually myself and the other players who are even better than I will eventually abandon this game. I will adapt to these changes and still thrive because I am able to adapt. The players that are crying about how either clan or IS are OP can obviously not adapt and need PGI to adapt the game for them.

Commander A9, on 20 November 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...e-pts-4-updated

Lasers
• Clan ERSmallLaser MaxRange reduced to 360 (400)
• Clan ERMediumLaser MaxRange reduced to 688 (810)
• Clan SmallPulseLaser MaxRange reduced to 297
• Clan MediumPulseLaser MaxRange reduced to 561

Clan Double Heat Sink capacity will be reduced from -1.4 to -1.1. This is reducing the maximum heat value for a 'Mech before it shuts down, not the speed at which it cools off.

Clan Mech XL Engines • When a Clan 'Mech loses a Side Torso, its Engine power is reduced by 20% for the rest of the match. This reduction applies to all factors affected by the Engine, such as turn rate, torso twist, and top speed.

I dislike these changes and reject them vehemently-this is where I stand.

---

I understand this is a test, but in the face of reduced laser ranges, ghost heat, no quirks or even negative quirks, reduced tonnage versus IS in Community Warfare, reduced maximum heat buildup, and now with this terrible proposal over XL engines, Clans are not 'easy mode.' And if you believe they are, I encourage you tell me how Clan mechs are better than Inner Sphere tech, other than coming standard with Ferro Fibrous and Endo-Steel...which only gives you more tonnage to play with at the expense of alot of slots.

Inner Sphere quirks are still so much more expansive and benefitting for Inner Sphere mechs, and they remain this way in PTS4. Clan quirks have been nerfs or have been nonexistant for the longest time, so what's the benefit of being on the Clans?

Have you seen a full 12-man of Inner Sphere pilots strap on nothing but ER Lasers on Boreal Vault and snipe down Clan mechs from well outside any Clan mechs' range? I have. You think that sounds balanced to you?

This round of nerfs is yet another attempt at PGI to bring "balance" to the game by making adjustments to technology and quirks as compensation for player skills, or lack thereof. The changes that we have witnessed are artificial supplements-or handicaps-designed to compensate for varying player skill sets rather than to fix anything that's actually broken or really needs fixing.

Was there truly anything "broken" with the game BEFORE the mass quirks, ghost heat, and major nerfs were applied?

I dare PGI to play nothing but Clan mechs for a week-THEN see what they have to say.

[Fenrisian Wolf]

o0Marduk0o, on 20 November 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

All reasonable changes. Are you just bad at piloting clan mechs?

Why is someone from Ghost Bear even commenting on this. Your faction obviously doesn't even play CW. I don't even take you guys seriously.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Fenrisian Wolf, on 20 November 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

Why is someone from Ghost Bear even commenting on this. Your faction obviously doesn't even play CW. I don't even take you guys seriously.

congratz, you just lost all credibility.

On a more serious note, it's a test server, if it's not working out it won't make it into the game.

[Commander A9]

Indeed. I know it's just a test, but if we resist it while it's still just a test, then these proposed changes will never see the light of day.

[Surn]

Clan mechs are OP. That is why you play clan. That is why try hard teams stay clan. Stop whining you baby.
If you were a good pilot, you would be IS for the challenge. Finally, you are correct that the IS has 2 mechs with better erll range. However, that is the only advantage in the entire inner sphere arsenal.
Clan light are better due to the broken Artic Cheater.
Clan heavy are better for many factors.
Clan mediums are better just due to the Stormcrow.
Clan assaults are at least on par with IS assaults, with better speed and more ECM teammates to tip the balance in their favor.
Clan heat is better due to reduced tonnage on gauss rifles.
Clan brawlers are better due to small lasers, reduced AC spread, reduced pulse duration and streak boats.
So, stop being a cry baby.

Edited by MechregSurn, 20 November 2015 - 11:06 AM.

[Fenrisian Wolf]

LOADED, on 20 November 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

congratz, you just lost all credibility.

On a more serious note, it's a test server, if it's not working out it won't make it into the game.

How did I lose credibility when some guy comes in here and types one sentence just saying that A9 is a bad pilot? Obviously it's a test it's on the test server but it is something they are really considering. I don't really care one way or the other I just think this game has both the smartest gamers and some of the dumbest. I have already switched my load outs to UAC 2s and ER Large lasers. Wanna beat inner sphere at their own game you need to elite you mech, put in a module, and put in a targeting computer. No one is making any of the IS pilots run XL engines either. IS pilots don't want balance they want their mechs to be stronger. Lastly no my friend I did not lose my credibility either. You lost your credibility when you commented on this post and your post held no information other than the obvious fact that this is a test.

[Nedolon]

I might have gotten something wrong.
As far as I know, those changes are steps towards removing quirks. It doesn't make sense to compare quirked IS-Mechs with Clan-Mechs. If you get similar results in Clan- and IS-Mechs now, that's only because IS-Mechs got quirks. Think about playing those IS-Mechs without any quirks, ...
-->
Don't compare PTR-Clan-Mechs with live-IS-Mechs !

[Fenrisian Wolf]

MechregSurn, on 20 November 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

Clan mechs are OP. That is why you play clan. That is why try hard teams stay clan. Stop whining you baby.
If you were a good pilot, you would be IS for the challenge. Finally, you are correct that the IS has 2 mechs with better erll range. However, that is the only advantage in the entire inner sphere arsenal.
Clan light are better due to the broken Artic Cheater.
Clan heavy are better for many factors.
Clan mediums are better just due to the Stormcrow.
Clan assaults are at least on par with IS assaults, with better speed and more ECM teammates to tip the balance in their favor.
Clan heat is better due to reduced tonnage on gauss rifles.
Clan brawlers are better due to small lasers, reduced AC spread, reduced pulse duration and streak boats.
So, stop being a cry baby.

Sounds like your crying with your usual Clans OP BS. (Yes I will go to war over this topic) I dont play clan because "Clans OP" I play clan because clan freaking wolf. I would be happy to play as
[color=#545454][/color][color=#6A6A6A]Free Rasalhague [/color][color=#545454]Republic.[/color]

[Mawai]

Everyone has their own anecdotes and stories.

PGI has the numbers.

In my experience, on average, the best clan chassis are more effective than equivalent tonnage/weight class IS mechs.

Dire Wolf, Timberwolf, Stormcrow, Arctic Cheetah.

Can you kill these mechs ... sure ... it is easy ... enough focused fire will kill anything. However, put two equally skilled players in comparable mechs and the one driving one of those four clan mechs will usually win.

In addition to that, some aspects of clan weapons make them particularly effective due to their longer ranges. Keep in mind that the changes you listed are only changes to maximum range, not to optimal. All those changes do are to make clan laser sniping, particularly with the CERML, a little less effective.

The changes to heat sinks and the effect of side torso engine loss are also reasonable but will need to be play tested to make sure that they don't do too much ... particularly the heat sinks. However, the idea of giving clan mechs a higher ROF and dps with lower alpha by increasing dissipation and decreasing the heat cap is also a way to make clans different from IS ... without making them unbalanced.

Bottom line is that clans are still more effective than IS, PGI has the numbers to prove it and they wouldn't waste their time making the changes if they did not know the changes were needed.

[Fenrisian Wolf]

MechregSurn, on 20 November 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

Clan mechs are OP. That is why you play clan. That is why try hard teams stay clan. Stop whining you baby.
If you were a good pilot, you would be IS for the challenge. Finally, you are correct that the IS has 2 mechs with better erll range. However, that is the only advantage in the entire inner sphere arsenal.
Clan light are better due to the broken Artic Cheater.
Clan heavy are better for many factors.
Clan mediums are better just due to the Stormcrow.
Clan assaults are at least on par with IS assaults, with better speed and more ECM teammates to tip the balance in their favor.
Clan heat is better due to reduced tonnage on gauss rifles.
Clan brawlers are better due to small lasers, reduced AC spread, reduced pulse duration and streak boats.
So, stop being a cry baby.

I'll kill you with a flamer

[Motroid]

Mawai, on 20 November 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

Everyone has their own anecdotes and stories.

PGI has the numbers.

In my experience, on average, the best clan chassis are more effective than equivalent tonnage/weight class IS mechs.

Dire Wolf, Timberwolf, Stormcrow, Arctic Cheetah.

Can you kill these mechs ... sure ... it is easy ... enough focused fire will kill anything. However, put two equally skilled players in comparable mechs and the one driving one of those four clan mechs will usually win.

In addition to that, some aspects of clan weapons make them particularly effective due to their longer ranges. Keep in mind that the changes you listed are only changes to maximum range, not to optimal. All those changes do are to make clan laser sniping, particularly with the CERML, a little less effective.

The changes to heat sinks and the effect of side torso engine loss are also reasonable but will need to be play tested to make sure that they don't do too much ... particularly the heat sinks. However, the idea of giving clan mechs a higher ROF and dps with lower alpha by increasing dissipation and decreasing the heat cap is also a way to make clans different from IS ... without making them unbalanced.

Bottom line is that clans are still more effective than IS, PGI has the numbers to prove it and they wouldn't waste their time making the changes if they did not know the changes were needed.

QFT
I couldn't have said it better.

[Fenrisian Wolf]

Mawai, on 20 November 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

Everyone has their own anecdotes and stories.

PGI has the numbers.

In my experience, on average, the best clan chassis are more effective than equivalent tonnage/weight class IS mechs.

Dire Wolf, Timberwolf, Stormcrow, Arctic Cheetah.

Can you kill these mechs ... sure ... it is easy ... enough focused fire will kill anything. However, put two equally skilled players in comparable mechs and the one driving one of those four clan mechs will usually win.

In addition to that, some aspects of clan weapons make them particularly effective due to their longer ranges. Keep in mind that the changes you listed are only changes to maximum range, not to optimal. All those changes do are to make clan laser sniping, particularly with the CERML, a little less effective.

The changes to heat sinks and the effect of side torso engine loss are also reasonable but will need to be play tested to make sure that they don't do too much ... particularly the heat sinks. However, the idea of giving clan mechs a higher ROF and dps with lower alpha by increasing dissipation and decreasing the heat cap is also a way to make clans different from IS ... without making them unbalanced.

Bottom line is that clans are still more effective than IS, PGI has the numbers to prove it and they wouldn't waste their time making the changes if they did not know the changes were needed.

Yes cause PGI never makes any mistakes

[Gas Guzzler]

Commander A9, on 20 November 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...e-pts-4-updated

Lasers
• Clan ERSmallLaser MaxRange reduced to 360 (400)
• Clan ERMediumLaser MaxRange reduced to 688 (810)
• Clan SmallPulseLaser MaxRange reduced to 297
• Clan MediumPulseLaser MaxRange reduced to 561

Clan Double Heat Sink capacity will be reduced from -1.4 to -1.1. This is reducing the maximum heat value for a 'Mech before it shuts down, not the speed at which it cools off.

Clan Mech XL Engines • When a Clan 'Mech loses a Side Torso, its Engine power is reduced by 20% for the rest of the match. This reduction applies to all factors affected by the Engine, such as turn rate, torso twist, and top speed.

I dislike these changes and reject them vehemently-this is where I stand.

---

I understand this is a test, but in the face of reduced laser ranges, ghost heat, no quirks or even negative quirks, reduced tonnage versus IS in Community Warfare, reduced maximum heat buildup, and now with this terrible proposal over XL engines, Clans are not 'easy mode.' And if you believe they are, I encourage you tell me how Clan mechs are better than Inner Sphere tech, other than coming standard with Ferro Fibrous and Endo-Steel...which only gives you more tonnage to play with at the expense of alot of slots.

Inner Sphere quirks are still so much more expansive and benefitting for Inner Sphere mechs, and they remain this way in PTS4. Clan quirks have been nerfs or have been nonexistant for the longest time, so what's the benefit of being on the Clans?

Have you seen a full 12-man of Inner Sphere pilots strap on nothing but ER Lasers on Boreal Vault and snipe down Clan mechs from well outside any Clan mechs' range? I have. You think that sounds balanced to you?

This round of nerfs is yet another attempt at PGI to bring "balance" to the game by making adjustments to technology and quirks as compensation for player skills, or lack thereof. The changes that we have witnessed are artificial supplements-or handicaps-designed to compensate for varying player skill sets rather than to fix anything that's actually broken or really needs fixing.

Was there truly anything "broken" with the game BEFORE the mass quirks, ghost heat, and major nerfs were applied?

I dare PGI to play nothing but Clan mechs for a week-THEN see what they have to say.

They did buff Clan DHS heat dissipation, and the capacity nerf amounts to roughly 2-3 heat out of ~65 if your mech has 20 DHS. Very minor, almost not worth noting. (I can't remember exact numbers but these are rough order of magnitude).

Honestly, the ER MLs and the Clan XL were the difference makers, they have reigned in the effectiveness of the 600 m ER ML poking which I think is not a bad idea, and now slapped you with a 20% engine nerf when you lose a ST. But hey, at least you are still alive!!

So... you still get 1 ton 7 damage at 405 m lasers, the damage just drops off a little faster.

The top performing Clan mechs are going to be fine, but may not be obvious competitive choices any more. Clan mechs that needed help still need help, just more so now.

I would argue that the small class lasers didn't need a range nerf, but the max range nerf is pretty minor at least.

[CainenEX]

Commander A9, on 20 November 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...e-pts-4-updated

Lasers
• Clan ERSmallLaser MaxRange reduced to 360 (400)
• Clan ERMediumLaser MaxRange reduced to 688 (810)
• Clan SmallPulseLaser MaxRange reduced to 297
• Clan MediumPulseLaser MaxRange reduced to 561

Clan Double Heat Sink capacity will be reduced from -1.4 to -1.1. This is reducing the maximum heat value for a 'Mech before it shuts down, not the speed at which it cools off.

Clan Mech XL Engines • When a Clan 'Mech loses a Side Torso, its Engine power is reduced by 20% for the rest of the match. This reduction applies to all factors affected by the Engine, such as turn rate, torso twist, and top speed.

Been waiting for these changes. Finally some fairness has been met.

Clan DHS heat changes are going to give the clan that more unique feel rather than just outdoing the IS in all regards. Less 40+ alpha strikes that core you out but faster cool down. Great change, hoping to see more brawling return!

The ER ML cahnges. What a needed change, it was just too strong. Feels more reigned in now even though it outranges the IS medium laser. Clan XL changes: been asking for this a long time. almost no consequence to losing a side torso expect some heat disappation before (which hardly matter since you lost weapons anyways). IS mechs ether diedfrom a ST death or for the few stanard users simply don't boat the effective firepower an XL mech does. As a clan player 20% engine nerf when you lose a ST is FAIR. now be quite and go play with your 80 point alpha direwolf

The top performing Clan mechs are hardly effected anyways. The others could use some buffs in the right spots.
Keep up the great work PGI!

Edited by CainenEX, 20 November 2015 - 01:57 PM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Fenrisian Wolf, on 20 November 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

How did I lose credibility

You have to ask? seriously?

Fenrisian Wolf, on 20 November 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

Why is someone from Ghost Bear even commenting on this. Your faction obviously doesn't even play CW. I don't even take you guys seriously.

Are you drunk?

Fenrisian Wolf, on 20 November 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

this game has both the smartest gamers and some of the dumbest.

agreed.
thought, i do seem to see the later more often nowadays.

[AbyssalTyrant]

Commander A9, on 20 November 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

Was there truly anything "broken" with the game BEFORE the mass quirks, ghost heat, and major nerfs were applied?

Yes , as a matter a fact there was! They were called Clans .