14 replies to this topic

[Starwars8539]

Yesterday I bought a Panther, tried kitting it out and noticed it was rather slow for a light 'Mech. Is it supposed to be able to carry more weapons/armour, do I just have a bad engine or is it none of the above?

[Arnold J Rimmer]

In the lore, it was the Light That Carried a PPC. The sacrifices necessary for that included its engine, meaning it could barely keep up with mediums. But if it hit you with that cannon, you'd know all about it. It was heavy support for relatively little tonnage investment, basically.

In MWO, the mechs have an engine cap based on their stock engine, and the Panther's is tiny for a light, so you wind up with something comparable to a Jenner with only two-thirds the speed; it tops out at just over 100kph.

I've seen Panthers best used as escorts for bigger mechs - because they're small and slow, people often prioritise other targets and that allows you to get in some good damage. However, they also work as flankers if they can go about it undetected.

[mailin]

Some players have really good luck in Panthers. Those drivers are very much of the fire and move variety. Personally I don't like them but I do find that they make really good Spider food.

[MarineTech]

In MWO, the Panther is primarily a skirmisher and harrasser. You skirt around the edges of the enemy team taking potshots and distracting them from your main firing line.

As noted, Panthers have an engine cap that prevents it from being really speedy, so diving through the enemy murder ball causing disruption isn't really an option as it is with other lights.

Definitely a shoot and scoot mech.

[Kjudoon]

Starwars8539, on 24 December 2015 - 05:28 AM, said:

Yesterday I bought a Panther, tried kitting it out and noticed it was rather slow for a light 'Mech. Is it supposed to be able to carry more weapons/armour, do I just have a bad engine or is it none of the above?

The 10k was an awesome ERPPC light. That plus 2 SRMx2s was happy times! Then they nerfed the ERPPC heat generation MASSIVELY. Now I use it as a tanky little SRMboat with MPLs... sort of the Commandos bigger brother with JJs. It's slower, but you play it smarter and it does well.

Edited by Kjudoon, 24 December 2015 - 06:40 AM.

[zudukai]

don't forget that it can poptart/jump snipe well, and, IMO is what it's suited best at from what i can tell.

there is one build with 2xPPC, basically dedicated to that role, another build that favors medium-close range with 1xPPC and 2xSRM4, IMO being the most effective playstyle on that chassis, vs other lights doing LL (rvn-2x) and ERLL(rvn-3L) and other skirmisher builds better.. (fs9, jr7, ach...)

Edited by zudukai, 24 December 2015 - 06:42 AM.

[Koniving]

Starwars8539, on 24 December 2015 - 05:28 AM, said:

Yesterday I bought a Panther, tried kitting it out and noticed it was rather slow for a light 'Mech. Is it supposed to be able to carry more weapons/armour, do I just have a bad engine or is it none of the above?

In Battletech, the source material, mechs of all weight classes had various roles. For example, the Charger is an 80 ton assault mech designed for scout missions, with barely any reasonable weapon armament and whose sole intention should it encounter a rival scouting force is to overtake it with its immense speed and brutally maul it with its battering ram for an arm; and should the enemy's speed be greater than its own, it should catch up enough to use its 6 small lasers.

Yes. That was seriously a thing.

Some light mechs are meant for scouting, some for full-on combat, some for fire support, and anti-infantry applications. The Firestarter for example is intended as an anti-infantry mech; but where's the infantry? These variations are even within chassis, for example the Raven 3-L is a bonified scout mech designed for information warfare. The Raven 4X is actually a full on combat chassis designed in BT to take on mechs larger than itself; its armor within Battletech nearly rivals that of some Battlemechs up to 20 tons heavier than itself. In a tangle, RVN-4X would hand any non-5th generation Shadowhawk its hip actuators in a scrap heap. Though this isn't quite true in MWO...because "freedom to build."

But going back to roles: Fire support includes missile lights such as the Thorn (not in MWO yet). It also includes heavy fire mechs such as the Hollander, a 35 ton walking Gauss Rifle, and the Panther. The Panther is a smaller version of the Vindicator, a walking single PPC. In a Light 'Mech company, these would be your second to third line lights, providing sniper support for your scouts and fighters. They are slower, lumbering, and in actual Battletech hardly ever go 64 kph because they would lose accuracy then. (Mind you this is because Panthers 'ran' to get to 64.8 kph...they are also 2 meters shorter than MWO has them.) They ambushed more than rushed and usually loved hanging out in water (to cool).

You can improve it, give it faster engines and all that. But in the source material what you would do in MWO to make virtually any mech 'competitive' would be nigh on impossible to completely suicidal.

[Koniving]

With the reasons covered, now the solutions:
Take this. Select the Panther you have. Load the stock loadout.
Edit to your heart's content.

Note that you have an allotment of 35 tons. This includes ALL the weight on/in the mech. The engine, including Gyro and sensor equipment, is 5 tons. The PPC is 7 tons. The missile launcher varies with the variant and type. The armor is 6.5 tons. The skeleton is 2 tons. The heatsinks have their weight too. It all comes together to create your mech.

While allocating armor, consider this:

Orange/blue is side torsos, purple is center torso. The yellow outline in the Panther's mouth is your "cockpit" and it is really difficult to hit.

(Will do another post with my Panthers in it next.)

Edited by Koniving, 24 December 2015 - 08:08 AM.

[Koniving]

My Panthers. There's a notch between the second and third where I put in the "old" third with its high 113 kph speed, compared to its new kit of 67 kph speed.


Rawr.

[SnagaDance]

Except for the wholly ammo dependant 10P the biggest engine Panthers can take is the 250XL, I recommend using it.

As this still isn't the greatest speed around I also like taking 4 jumpjets for additional mobility. You need to reliably be able to relocate, not get hung unfortunately hung up using your single hoverjet.

The 9R has the whole 4E gun arm, but I'm not really fond of it. If I want multiple energy on an IS Light I'll take a Jenner or Firestarter instead.

I quite like the 10K and 8Z though. One big gun backed up by two SRM2's. An ERPPC for the 10K and a LPL for the 8Z. My small but surprisingly nimble Panther is often ignored in favour of more scary mechs, and this has netted me a good number of multi-kill games.

Is it the best Light out there? Certainly not, but much like the Urbanmech it brings a different playstyle to the game, and that's entertainment enough for me!

[TWIAFU]

MarineTech, on 24 December 2015 - 05:55 AM, said:

In MWO, the Panther is primarily a skirmisher and harrasser. You skirt around the edges of the enemy team taking potshots and distracting them from your main firing line.

As noted, Panthers have an engine cap that prevents it from being really speedy, so diving through the enemy murder ball causing disruption isn't really an option as it is with other lights.

Definitely a shoot and scoot mech.

How I use mine. Speed of 120ish, JJ, and good mobility makes for some good harassment and skirmishes.

[SilentFenris]

For the 8Z and 9K models I agree with the others above on shoot and scoot. A fast build with a big XL engine and some energy weapons of your preference is the way to go.

For the 10K I took a different approach. An XL200 engine, with two AMS units, two SRM4s and either a ERPPC or Large Pulse Laser. This build plays like some Adder builds, meant to stick near the fatties. Chip away with energy at range and cut loose with SRMs once the fatties on both sides start to brawl.

[Rogue Jedi]

others have given good recomendations for what the Panther is good at however in answer to the question in the thread title:

it cannot be as effective as a fast harrasser, scouting or playing the diversion as the faster Lights, and due to Light Mech armor it is not a great front line brawler, but its role can be what ever you want it to be, thanks to the customization you can do in MWO

[Elyam]

In talk of the Panther's original intended role, keep in mind as well that many of the BT designs were considered not just as individual mechs, but as a member of a lance or larger formation. The Panther is one of those designed to work with like units (instead of mixed), and the Combine would field even entire battalions of Panthers. Consider for a moment just a lance of 4: they concentrate PPC fire at range upon a target, opening deep wounds across a couple rounds; then when closing they have 16 SRMs per volley, giving a very high probability of finding the existing wounds and causing criticals. Though slow (even with jets), that lance of 4 can cause quite a bit of mayhem. We don't quite see these advantages play out in MWO to the degree they do in TT BT, but even for MWO such a lance is pretty interesting.

Edited by Elyam, 24 December 2015 - 10:01 AM.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Elyam, on 24 December 2015 - 10:00 AM, said:

In talk of the Panther's original intended role, keep in mind as well that many of the BT designs were considered not just as individual mechs, but as a member of a lance or larger formation. The Panther is one of those designed to work with like units (instead of mixed), and the Combine would field even entire battalions of Panthers. Consider for a moment just a lance of 4: they concentrate PPC fire at range upon a target, opening deep wounds across a couple rounds; then when closing they have 16 SRMs per volley, giving a very high probability of finding the existing wounds and causing criticals. Though slow (even with jets), that lance of 4 can cause quite a bit of mayhem. We don't quite see these advantages play out in MWO to the degree they do in TT BT, but even for MWO such a lance is pretty interesting.

Same with mechs like the Shadowhawk, Wolverine and Griffin. Individually their stock weapon loads look lacklustre for their weight, but when you think of it more as a 220-ton unit with 4 AC/5's, 4 ML's, 4 SRM/LRM launchers, 4 PPC's, which can keep going as a smaller unit if any one part is disabled...