27 replies to this topic

[Kshahdoo]

I haven't played for more than 3 years, and now I've come back and seen how some of new maps suck for lighter mechs.

Old maps all were great as to good balance between open and closed space. You always could find a place to run and gun. Some of the newer maps just don't have enough open space. I mean, Bog or Canyon. You just can't be mobile enough on them. Narrow passages, a lot of obstacles - what way a lighter mech is supposed to outmaneuver heavier ones on such maps? And with 12 mechs on companies, it's become even harder to survive for fast and mobile, but not very tough machines.

[Unreliable Mercenary]

Bog is a flankers paradise. Plenty of cover to skulk around and backstab assaults from above and below as a light mech.

[Kshahdoo]

Owen Miller, on 25 December 2015 - 12:24 AM, said:

Bog is a flankers paradise. Plenty of cover to skulk around and backstab assaults from above and below as a light mech.

Of course, but why do you need lighter mechs for it? Heavier ones handle this tactics way better.

[Rogue Jedi]

as someone who plays Light Mechs a lot I love bog and canyons, all the height transitions and cover mean it is far easier to pick off isolated enemies on those 2 maps than others, also those maps heavily benefit from Jumpjets which my preferred lights (SDR, JR7, FS9, ACH) all mount, also they are maps where due to limited view distance scouting is useful.

I would say those 2 favor Lights over the heavier weight classes

[Nightshade24]

Kshahdoo, on 25 December 2015 - 12:28 AM, said:

Of course, but why do you need lighter mechs for it? Heavier ones handle this tactics way better.

Because the fog is usually low and the smaller the mech the harder it is to detect as well (and fast movement allows it to reach said hiding place quicker than say a big atlas that is seen a kilometer away before it even reaches said fog)

[Kshahdoo]

Rogue Jedi, on 25 December 2015 - 01:26 AM, said:

as someone who plays Light Mechs a lot I love bog and canyons, all the height transitions and cover mean it is far easier to pick off isolated enemies on those 2 maps than others, also those maps heavily benefit from Jumpjets which my preferred lights (SDR, JR7, FS9, ACH) all mount, also they are maps where due to limited view distance scouting is useful.

I would say those 2 favor Lights over the heavier weight classes

Do you know that killing mechs gives way more XP and money, than scouting? And picking isolated mechs isn't a problem on any map... when your heavies have already killed 3/4 enemies. In any other case good luck with it. Especially on aforementioned maps.

Edited by Kshahdoo, 25 December 2015 - 02:41 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Kshahdoo, on 25 December 2015 - 02:41 AM, said:

Do you know that killing mechs gives way more XP and money, than scouting? And picking isolated mechs isn't a problem on any map... when your heavies have already killed 3/4 enemies. In any other case good luck with it. Especially on aforementioned maps.

everyone is entitled to there own opinions, weather it be about maps, Mechs, weapons, the political situation, if the weather forecasters have a clue what they are talking about ^{(in the UK trusting the weather forecast is a big risk)}

yes I know scouting does not give you much XP or cbills, but it often does win you the game, the better organized team usualy wins and knowing where the enemy is can be a big part of it provided the team are prepared to use that information.

would you prefer high earnings or helping the team, I wish both were possible but I prefer to be useful

[PerfectDuck]

You might also be remembering the days where agility tanking was a thing, and when bad hit registration enabled lights to just dink around in the middle of enemy fire for very little punishment. Hit registration is more realistic now which means bad behavior like that doesn't go unanswered. Your difference in experience might not be just the maps' fault.

[Joseph Ward]

hate to gripe but I really don't enjoy the bog. have got stuck in terrain there before and not been able to move at all again - also seen other mechs suffer the same issue.

[Rogue Jedi]

Joseph Ward, on 25 December 2015 - 03:55 AM, said:

hate to gripe but I really don't enjoy the bog. have got stuck in terrain there before and not been able to move at all again - also seen other mechs suffer the same issue.

has happened to me too, on one occasion I got stuck inside one of the cliff faces, I could not move other than shaking the Mech, and with all the large roots which can stop a Mech, bog is definitely better for Mechs with Jumpjets

[TANTE EMMA]

Seriously, the OPs statement makes me giggle...no space for light mechs? Seriously?

As stated before, "The Bog" is a paradise for flankers and light mechs-only problem with that map are the tons of places where you can get stuck and the heavy foliage.
"The Net" has very interesting routes for lights as well. The problem is not the maps, the problem is that most players are so into their "Rush point A or B" that they forget how many different ways to approach there are.

[JeGGoR]

The bog is not perfect (difficult to see and I use the thermal vision most of the time), but as a light pilot that's one of my favourite playgrounds. It's perfect for this class. Even better with JJ, but you can do very well without it.

[Koniving]

Kshahdoo, on 25 December 2015 - 12:02 AM, said:

I haven't played for more than 3 years, and now I've come back and seen how some of new maps suck for lighter mechs.

Old maps all were great as to good balance between open and closed space. You always could find a place to run and gun. Some of the newer maps just don't have enough open space. I mean, Bog or Canyon. You just can't be mobile enough on them. Narrow passages, a lot of obstacles - what way a lighter mech is supposed to outmaneuver heavier ones on such maps? And with 12 mechs on companies, it's become even harder to survive for fast and mobile, but not very tough machines.

Bog and Canyon are kind of the 'middle ground' older maps. Not quite old, definitely not new.

Canyon doesn't leave much; there's the canyons and the area above it. Bog can do wonders given time to explore its nooks and crannies. Use the 'bug' parts for cover. Lights can jump them but nothing else can. Use height, use the plants. You'd be surprised.

Newer maps I noticed have a number of really 'tight' areas that heavies and assaults can't even enter, and even mediums have trouble getting through but lights get through them like nothing. Mountain ledges around Forest Colony come to mind, plenty of anti-weapon protection while zipping around a shortcut to get to the other side.

Explore in the Testing Grounds.

Good luck!

[Tarogato]

I'm with Perfect Duck here. If you were around three whole years ago, that was a time when lights benefited from open ground and lag-tanking. They can't really do that at all anymore because hit registration is so much more accurate these days and the players play the maps differently from how they used to. The new maps are great for lights and high mobility play is rewarded if you know how to sneak properly. ECM helps, but even something as simple as a Jenner or Wolfhound can pull off some nasty flank harassment.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Do you use the F key (leg twist) in addition to your normal turning left/right?

I find that really helps. So much so that I have it hot-keyed onto my mouse.

Takes awhile to get used to, but really makes your light more maneuverable.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Rogue Jedi, on 25 December 2015 - 02:51 AM, said:

...

yes I know scouting does not give you much XP or cbills, but it often does win you the game, the better organized team usualy wins and knowing where the enemy is can be a big part of it provided the team are prepared to use that information.

I used to believe that, and I still WANT it to be true. Maybe I've just given in to tryhard wannabes in PUG, or maybe I'm sick of doing a relatively good job at that only to watch as my team acts directly against what intel I provide, ignores my spots for LRMs, and gets rolled HARD, leaving me alone against 8-12 enemy mechs, then BERATE ME for non-participating. It wears you out. Most folks seem like they'd be fine with a 12v12 all-heavy brawl. We really don't need any mech other than maybe Thunderbolt and Timber Wolf, and 90% of players would be thrilled.

Quote

would you prefer high earnings or helping the team, I wish both were possible but I prefer to be useful

Damn straight!

[JC Daxion]

TheRAbbi, on 25 December 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

Most folks seem like they'd be fine with a 12v12 all-heavy brawl.

come on man.. When have you ever seen a 12 v 12 heavy brawl??? I wish!!!!!! It's normally 2 mechs maybe that wan't to brawl while everyone else hides and peeks with large lasers... It makes me wanna cry, to think that 4-5 heavy/assaults won't push out from behind a rock to Rock and roll!... (i'm talking average pick up groups, Not the comp peak and poke play..)


But honestly, nothing like a full on brawl with all 4 weight classes making havok.. fun, fun, fun!



But about scouting.. I can't even begin to count how many times, that if the team listened to the intel, I or others have given, we could of rolled. And i am not saying i am the best.. But intel is intel.. and anyone giving good info about a couple mechs, that our group could easily push in much larger numbers is ALWAYS a win! Sure someone may die.. But ill trade 1 mech for 3 any day.. and i'll gladly lead a charge if i know others will follow, even in a light or medium and take my chances.

vrse just going to the same spots, doing the same tactics.. Like the other night, Tourmilne, I called out in one match... Two separate times we had 6 mechs, vrse 3 mechs.. first, was the center shot through theta, hey 3 mechs at X location. they had fast movers push us really hard and their back up was no where to be seen. . no one moved..they were only 1 or 2 squares away.

Nothing.. We then moved to flank.. in that e5 Basin of no mans land... I like to call it the death cavity. They had a high group at D area up top.. their other lance finally decided to push theta.. and was hanging around that area.. so the 3 mechs Just around the back side of D5 area were basically alone, and we had mechs very close.. a few seconds of a fast push, even the assaults could of been there. Again not a single mech moved from the death basin.

Their group that split into 3 groups by this point, and they just pushed us from 3 sides.. One through the theta basin.. the other that lower pass below D5, and then around the back side.. Needless to say, we got surrounded and took the classic ROLL.

The best part was after we got yelled at for being spread out. (we only were covering 2 sqaures, outside or 2 lights that ran off and scouted back side of D5 area.. the second place we could of easily pushed.

I swear at any of those points if we picked a spot and pushed, it would of been a 12/2 roll in our favor.. Instead it was the exact opposite.

My main point is, you Can scout, and give intel, and spot, and still do decent damage, and get the win.. the biggest question is, if anyone else wants to be on the same page. I personally don't care who leads.. Because anyone that takes a lead, i'll follow, even if it is a bad idea.. because more often than not, a group even going down a bad road can pull out a win, with good play, and a nice gamble.. verse just shooting random mechs solo.




Pugs can be some of the most frustrating, and fun matches around.. though i do often think about maybe it's time to join a clan, and try some group effort.. and play a roll.. One of these days.. i swear!

Edited by JC Daxion, 25 December 2015 - 05:59 PM.

[mailin]

I agree with Rogue Jedi. For me the game isn't about the c-bills or the XP. (I have plenty of both and more after each drop.) It IS about the fun. Once I got 20k assists in lights I laid off of them for a while to drive heavier mechs. I did drops in every heavier mech that I own and I just found them not very satisfying. Yeah, having more weapons is nice to really tear stuff up, but I found myself back in my lights and having a LOT more fun. Flying around the maps, scouting the enemy, getting the enemy to disengage to defend their base only to find me gone, and leading the enemy back into the loving arms of my brethren. It just doesn't get any better than that, and that is way better than any rewards given.

For that reason, I really like the Bog. The poor vision down low is perfect for me. It gives me plenty of opportunity to get behind the enemy before they can get very far and allows me to cap or fire on their backs on my terms.

Edited by mailin, 25 December 2015 - 06:57 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Yeah, I liked to scout and do recon stuff. Spotting. Ninja UAV deployment. More ninja strike calling. Even NARCing on occasion. That was FUN.

WAS fun. Until I took a 16-month break, and returned to find that very VERY few every give a hoot what the scouts have to say. Used to be, EVERY match in PUG began with an order for the scouts to go somewhere and find the enemy. Now, it's all like, "LOL 'scout' you p***y, git gud".

Seriously, some of you guys and gals are solid gold. Shame I'm a scrub and never see y'all in game. Well, ALMOST never.

BACK OT: I like the Bog. Not my FAVORITE map, but I'd take it over Alpine or Mordor any day. And I still can't get the hang of Mining Hippies, either. Something about the lighting. Anyhow, I put Viridian Bog in the middle of the pack for fun-to-play in three weight classes (I don't do assaults). And I really appreciate the ginormous bug shell in the middle, as something a little different and cool that someone at PGI gave us. I'd love to have a 12-mech company go fight one of those things, whatever the crap it was. That could be FUN! (RAID BOSS!)

[Nightshade24]

Kshahdoo, on 25 December 2015 - 02:41 AM, said:

Do you know that killing mechs gives way more XP and money, than scouting? And picking isolated mechs isn't a problem on any map... when your heavies have already killed 3/4 enemies. In any other case good luck with it. Especially on aforementioned maps.

Depends, I have had a match with 450,000 c-bills where 210,000 where NARC kills, TAG kills, TAG stealth, jam ecm, scouting, spotting assist, and TAG assists.