44 replies to this topic

[PAINLESS 42]

So as I stop fighting and surrender to the warm LURMY embrace of my Highlander IICs I was left with a question. Obviously given the tonnage and space, adding Artemis is a good thing, but what if you have to trade tubes for Artemis. The Highlander-IIC-B has the critical space for 4X LRM 20s, but if you add Artemis, you run out of slots and are down to a max of 2X 20+A and 2X 15+A,. Am I better going LRM-80, or LRM-70+A?

Edited by PAINLESS 42, 17 December 2015 - 09:56 AM.

[Cold Darkness]

ALRM 70 > LRM 80

[Roadkill]

Check your own stats. What I suspect you'll find is that Artemis is basically useless for LRMs.

My stats say that ALRM-15 hits 0.5% more often than LRM-15. That's 5 extra missiles hit out of 1000 fired. Not worth the weight on any Mech.

[Mcgral18]

Artemis reduces spread, increases tracking, and halves lock time.


Take Artemis.

[PAINLESS 42]

LRM 10

35.72%

LRM 15

31.59%

LRM 10 + ARTEMIS

37.49%

LRM 15 + ARTEMIS

30.32%


Interesting.

Edited by PAINLESS 42, 17 December 2015 - 10:26 AM.

[El Bandito]

I usually do not take Artemis on LRM5s and 10s since the spread is already good enough. But on 15s and 20s, it is a must.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 December 2015 - 10:29 AM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Roadkill, on 17 December 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

Check your own stats. What I suspect you'll find is that Artemis is basically useless for LRMs.

My stats say that ALRM-15 hits 0.5% more often than LRM-15. That's 5 extra missiles hit out of 1000 fired. Not worth the weight on any Mech.

Mcgral18, on 17 December 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

Artemis reduces spread, increases tracking, and halves lock time.


Take Artemis.

While counterintuitive, Roadkill has a point. Then again, I'm wondering how the percentage is calculated. If one missile hits out of fifteen, do you get credit for the salvo or for one missile? Basically, is that a salvo percentage or percentage of all missiles fired? If it's based on missiles fired/landing, Artemis doesn't seem to be worth it. If the percentage is based on salvos fired, the Artemis percentage may be misleading.

[PAINLESS 42]

Lyoto Machida, on 17 December 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

While counterintuitive, Roadkill has a point. Then again, I'm wondering how the percentage is calculated. If one missile hits out of fifteen, do you get credit for the salvo or for one missile? Basically, is that a salvo percentage or percentage of all missiles fired? If it's based on missiles fired/landing, Artemis doesn't seem to be worth it. If the percentage is based on salvos fired, the Artemis percentage may be misleading.

The other thing I was thinking about is that the percentages don't factor in the target lock time reduction. You might be getting shots off on the Artemis equipped launcher that you wouldn't even get to take with a non-Artemis launcher.

[Voras]

You also need to factor in that Artemis has no effect if you do not have direct line of sight to the target.

[Almond Brown]

Artemis cluster mode does not function when using "Indirect Fire" mode. Or that is what I read. You need personal LoS to get the tighter cluster benefit, but the other stuff is always good to go. (what I read somewhere on here)

Edited by Almond Brown, 17 December 2015 - 10:44 AM.

[Lyoto Machida]

PAINLESS 42, on 17 December 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

The other thing I was thinking about is that the percentages don't factor in the target lock time reduction. You might be getting shots off on the Artemis equipped launcher that you wouldn't even get to take with a non-Artemis launcher.

I guess you'd have to run the same mech with and without Artemis and see how your average damage stacks up, assuming accuracy is the same.

[Mcgral18]

Lyoto Machida, on 17 December 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

While counterintuitive, Roadkill has a point. Then again, I'm wondering how the percentage is calculated. If one missile hits out of fifteen, do you get credit for the salvo or for one missile? Basically, is that a salvo percentage or percentage of all missiles fired? If it's based on missiles fired/landing, Artemis doesn't seem to be worth it. If the percentage is based on salvos fired, the Artemis percentage may be misleading.

I'm getting 1.1 dam/hit from my stats (because they used to be 1.1 damage)

Which confuses me. Shouldn't it be 10 or 20 damage per shot? Seems to be counting individual missiles as hits.
LBx stat seems to be working properly, as I have an average of 7.5 Dam/shot with the LB10x. (meaning some pellets miss, some hit), but LRMs are consistently 1.1.

Then again, the whole stat might be based on missiles fired, or the stat page broken (as it's known to be). 5 matches, 6700 shots? Impossible. 6700/15=446...more plausible, but I don't think I brought 1300 missiles per match in, and certainly didn't get to fire all of them.

[MechPorn]

Mcgral18, on 17 December 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

Artemis reduces spread, increases tracking, and halves lock time.


Take Artemis.

Is not generally worth the extra weight vs extra ammo. I am not willing to waste a precious slot to Artemis and extra tonnage. With every LRM that you do this to it takes away a 180 missiles. With three LRM 15's this is 540 rounds (or 36 shots). this gets worse with LRM 20's, taking away 27 shots.

With the amount of misses with LRMs, it is not worth the weight vs ammo vs potential shots vs low probability of hitting the target(s).

% mean nothing until you really dig down into them and this shows Artemis sucks:

LRM 5 + ARTEMIS accuracy is at 28.39% with 5 missiles launched, you will hit with 1.42 of them.
LRM 10 + ARTEMIS accuracy is at 31.22% with 10 missiles launched, you will hit with 3.12 of them.
LRM 15 + ARTEMIS accuracy is at 32.31% with 15 missiles launched, you will hit with 4.85 of them.
LRM 20 + ARTEMIS accuracy is at 40.58% with 20 missiles launched, you will hit with 8.12 of them.

LRM 5 accuracy is at 29.93% with 5 missiles launched, you will hit with 1.50 of them.
LRM 10 accuracy is at 30.71% with 10 missiles launched, you will hit with 3.07 of them.
LRM 15 accuracy is at 28.50% with 15 missiles launched, you will hit with 4.28 of them.
LRM 20 accuracy is at 35.65% with 20 missiles launched, you will hit with 7.13 of them.

Artemis vs Non Artemis

LRM 5 vs LRMwA 5 you hit -0.08 a missile more with Artemis.

LRM 10 vs LRMwA 10 you hit with 0.05 a missile launch more with Artemis, you lose less than one missile per shot compared.

LRM 15 vs LRMwA 15 you hit with 0.57 a missile launch more with Artemis, you lose less than one missile per shot compared.

LRM 20 vs LRMwA 20 you hit with 0.99 a missile launch more with Artemis, you lose less than one missile per shot compared.

With less then one missile difference, I would rather have the staying power with extra shots. These extra shots make you more effective then hitting with less than one missile per launch.

[WarHippy]

Roadkill, on 17 December 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

Check your own stats. What I suspect you'll find is that Artemis is basically useless for LRMs.

My stats say that ALRM-15 hits 0.5% more often than LRM-15. That's 5 extra missiles hit out of 1000 fired. Not worth the weight on any Mech.

Eh, for me ALRM-15 hits ~6.5% more often than the standard LRM-15, and that really doesn't paint the full picture.

[Mcgral18]

TB Xiomburg, on 17 December 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

Is not generally worth the extra weight vs extra ammo. I am not willing to waste a precious slot to Artemis and extra tonnage. With every LRM that you do this to it takes away a 180 missiles. With three LRM 15's this is 540 rounds (or 36 shots). this gets worse with LRM 20's, taking away 27 shots.

With the amount of misses with LRMs, it is not worth the weight vs ammo vs potential shots vs low probability of hitting the target(s).

% mean nothing until you really dig down into them and this shows Artemis sucks:

LRM 5 + ARTEMIS accuracy is at 28.39% with 5 missiles launched, you will hit with 1.42 of them.
LRM 10 + ARTEMIS accuracy is at 31.22% with 10 missiles launched, you will hit with 3.12 of them.
LRM 15 + ARTEMIS accuracy is at 32.31% with 15 missiles launched, you will hit with 4.85 of them.
LRM 20 + ARTEMIS accuracy is at 40.58% with 20 missiles launched, you will hit with 8.12 of them.

LRM 5 accuracy is at 29.93% with 5 missiles launched, you will hit with 1.50 of them.
LRM 10 accuracy is at 30.71% with 10 missiles launched, you will hit with 3.07 of them.
LRM 15 accuracy is at 28.50% with 15 missiles launched, you will hit with 4.28 of them.
LRM 20 accuracy is at 35.65% with 20 missiles launched, you will hit with 7.13 of them.

Artemis vs Non Artemis

LRM 5 vs LRMwA 5 you hit -0.08 a missile more with Artemis.

LRM 10 vs LRMwA 10 you hit with 0.05 a missile launch more with Artemis, you lose less than one missile per shot compared.

LRM 15 vs LRMwA 15 you hit with 0.57 a missile launch more with Artemis, you lose less than one missile per shot compared.

LRM 20 vs LRMwA 20 you hit with 0.99 a missile launch more with Artemis, you lose less than one missile per shot compared.

With less then one missile difference, I would rather have the staying power with extra shots. These extra shots make you more effective then hitting with less than one missile per launch.

It's not the amount that hits, it's where they hit.

4 missiles on the CT is better than 1 on the CT, 2 on either ST, and 1 on the arm.

[MechPorn]

Mcgral18, on 17 December 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

It's not the amount that hits, it's where they hit.

4 missiles on the CT is better than 1 on the CT, 2 on either ST, and 1 on the arm.

Your taking away from the effectiveness of your weapons over the long term for a very small amount of damage. I would rather have the staying power until the end of the round then only have my back up short range weapons to use for the last part of the match.

Artemis takes too much away from your ammos reserves and available slots to be worth it.

[PAINLESS 42]

I really wish we could get accurate stats. I was curious to see if my shots fired/game increased with Artemis launchers, reflecting the better time to target lock, but My stats on the LRM-15+A have me taking 57,930 Shots in 15 games. That's 3862 missiles per game.....


EDIT: Maybe Artemis functions like a Tardis, it provides a portal to negative space, where "Buddy" your armament tech has a vast warehouse of LRMs on tap for you.

Edited by PAINLESS 42, 17 December 2015 - 11:18 AM.

[ZenFool]

I prefer artemis on more mobile platforms that can keep los. Also, the benefit while using a single launcher is significant to your ability to kill targets. That doesn't seem to be what you are going for. Just lob moar missiles!

[PAINLESS 42]

Well, I have the HGH IIC-A and IIC-B, One has Artemis stock and one doesn't. I'm going to set them both up in an LRM-60 config in the testing grounds tonight and do an analysis.

[Lyoto Machida]

PAINLESS 42, on 17 December 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

Well, I have the HGH IIC-A and IIC-B, One has Artemis stock and one doesn't. I'm going to set them both up in an LRM-60 config in the testing grounds tonight and do an analysis.

Testing grounds won't tell the whole story...Artemis will help in trying to get salvos off on more elusive moving targets.