15 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

So I was capping, met a locust and in the middle of the locust fight when a Cheetah joined in. Killed the locust and started on the Cheetah. Finally killed the Cheetah turned to go join the rest of the fight, when my doll lit up with a front CT hit of a Clan ER PPC. Unfortunately there was nothing in front of me and I saw the ER PPC come in from my left and pass me.

So I will let you all be the judge and offer opinions on this,.

I personally go with bad Hit Reg.

[Tarogato]

No sound? ...

to me it looks like the PPC missed and you got splashed with some SRMs. But I can't tell because you muted the audio.

[FupDup]

Clearly Jenner hitboxes are broken. Yup, I'm sure of it. There cannot be any other possible explanation.

Serious note: That video makes it seem like the ERPPC missed your body by a mile.

[Darian DelFord]

Tarogato, on 26 December 2015 - 09:12 PM, said:

No sound? ...

to me it looks like the PPC missed and you got splashed with some SRMs. But I can't tell because you muted the audio.

He did have 2 SRM 6's but they were not SRM hits, if it was there would have been more splash damage and the sound was a for sure PPC hit. From behind

FupDup, on 26 December 2015 - 09:25 PM, said:

Clearly Jenner hitboxes are broken. Yup, I'm sure of it. There cannot be any other possible explanation.

Serious note: That video makes it seem like the ERPPC missed your body by a mile.

Yeah the PPC I thought missed me by a mile. I will load the entire video up with the sound

[Darian DelFord]

With sound Starts at 20 seonds

[Tarogato]

Darian DelFord, on 26 December 2015 - 09:31 PM, said:

He did have 2 SRM 6's but they were not SRM hits, if it was there would have been more splash damage and the sound was a for sure PPC hit. From behind




Yeah the PPC I thought missed me by a mile. I will load the entire video up with the sound

Ah, so I realised something I didn't see before. The PPC came from above, so the SHC was either on the wall at the time, jumping down behind you, or jumpsniping from behind the field base. Since he is not in view the moment you kill the ACH, we can assume he was not at the base and therefore must have been on the wall or jumping off the wall based on the trajectory of the shot. A tiny bit of math reveals that he was outside of SRM range, so had to be the PPC or a second mech. Being as he was above you, it's very likely that his PPC would have indeed hit the front of your mech. And it did, obviously. And if you follow the trail of the PPC, you'll see there is no particle explosion when it hits the ground in front of you, because the particle already occurred when the PPC hit you.

Therefore... he was above you where he could possibly hit the front of your mech, and HSR decided that his shot connected as the PPC trail was already whizzing past you. I'm willing to bet the SHC player had a 100+ ping.

Edited by Tarogato, 26 December 2015 - 09:53 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

Tarogato, on 26 December 2015 - 09:53 PM, said:

Ah, so I realised something I didn't see before. The PPC came from above, so the SHC was either on the wall at the time, jumping down behind you, or jumpsniping from behind the field base. Since he is not in view the moment you kill the ACH, we can assume he was not at the base and therefore must have been on the wall or jumping off the wall based on the trajectory of the shot. A tiny bit of math reveals that he was outside of SRM range, so had to be the PPC or a second mech. Being as he was above you, it's very likely that his PPC would have indeed hit the front of your mech. And it did, obviously. And if you follow the trail of the PPC, you'll see there is no particle explosion when it hits the ground in front of you, because the particle already occurred when the PPC hit you.

Therefore... he was above you where he could possibly hit the front of your mech, and HSR decided that his shot connected as the PPC trail was already whizzing past you. I'm willing to bet the SHC player had a 100+ ping.

I thought about that as well, scoured the footage to see if I could see him behind me. The only other thing I could come up with was he dropped down. However still does not explain it being so far off to my left. Even at my speed it would not create that large of a gap.

[Tarogato]

Darian DelFord, on 26 December 2015 - 10:03 PM, said:

I thought about that as well, scoured the footage to see if I could see him behind me. The only other thing I could come up with was he dropped down. However still does not explain it being so far off to my left. Even at my speed it would not create that large of a gap.

Do you have the scoreboard? If the SHC was a high ping player, then that would explain the discrepancy. If he wasn't, then this is the sort thing I'd send to Russ.

[Mad Porthos]

Ok, I will bite. I took a look at the soundless video, missing many of the cues that one could have listened for to determine the nature of the impact, eg. Missile, PPC, ballistic. A PPC bolt like that, be it clan or inner sphere, would not have been visible if it had hit you. They really do terminate when they hit a target, rather than continuing out and onward, so the commentary that you thought certain it had missed you was most definitely correct. However, that being said, the enemy mech that fired on you is known for mounting two ppcs in some configurations, as well as clan srmy6's. When you are hit at about 13-14s into this video, the CT front begins to flash red indicating a hit and then stabilizes into showing your front armor is stripped with yellow internals.

Yes, you were facing away from your enemy when it hit, but your mech was running on an uphill incline and you were steering slightly to the right, with the shot coming in from behind and to the right of you. Based on what we see in the 14 second mark and the timing of that PPC bolt that misses to the left, it had a companion PPC bolt from the enemy's other PPC which managed to hit front CT given how your mech was running, turning and body was yawed upward. What I think happened was the enemy fired a snap shot without a solid lock or managing to have his reticule on your mech, and so the two c-erppc bolts did not converge, instead streaking out parallel to each other, one going wide left, that other being the one that hit. The fact that at least two, perhaps three areas on your mech's paper doll flashed, but the majority of the damage was just to the CT (just yellowed other areas due to the splash 2.5 to two areas), really seems to indicate that was the weapon that hit and that was the trajectory it followed, especially given how that enemy was then hiding behind the cap point when you turned around to confront him. Seems the most likely explanation and fits with that angle of the missed PPC beam that he had made that shot on you from behind, likely INTENDING to hit your mech in the back but instead it going high and not converging.

It is really hard to confirm this though for anyone you are asking to look at it, because again - sound is missing and as you turn around and close on that enemy at the cap point, you first have another mech inside the HPG confines targeted, then you finally target your enemy for a split second, yet cut the video right before someone can actually see the weapon load out he had, as your missiles are streaking inwards at him. Seeing that target info pop up could confirm that he had a second c-erppc, as most such builds run and would probably put the nail in the coffin of this conclusion, if one had seen dual c-erppc in his loadout.

Instead you show again the slow motion of that left wide PPC shot clearly missing, to drive home the point that it missed by a mile to the left yet you state you were shown as having been hit by c-erppc. I put to you that you were hit exactly by his RIGHT arm c-erppc that essentially hit while you were running uphill, yawed upward with your Jenner nose, twisted a little right too as you were turning and trying to get under cover around that corner/wall.

[Darian DelFord]

Tarogato, on 26 December 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

Do you have the scoreboard? If the SHC was a high ping player, then that would explain the discrepancy. If he wasn't, then this is the sort thing I'd send to Russ.

Rushboar's Ping was 84, I would post the SS but to damn lazy. Funny thing is, in the end we both killed each other at the same time... rather funny actually.

[Darian DelFord]

Mad Porthos, on 26 December 2015 - 10:25 PM, said:

Ok, I will bite. I took a look at the soundless video, missing many of the cues that one could have listened for to determine the nature of the impact, eg. Missile, PPC, ballistic. A PPC bolt like that, be it clan or inner sphere, would not have been visible if it had hit you. They really do terminate when they hit a target, rather than continuing out and onward, so the commentary that you thought certain it had missed you was most definitely correct. However, that being said, the enemy mech that fired on you is known for mounting two ppcs in some configurations, as well as clan srmy6's. When you are hit at about 13-14s into this video, the CT front begins to flash red indicating a hit and then stabilizes into showing your front armor is stripped with yellow internals.

Yes, you were facing away from your enemy when it hit, but your mech was running on an uphill incline and you were steering slightly to the right, with the shot coming in from behind and to the right of you. Based on what we see in the 14 second mark and the timing of that PPC bolt that misses to the left, it had a companion PPC bolt from the enemy's other PPC which managed to hit front CT given how your mech was running, turning and body was yawed upward. What I think happened was the enemy fired a snap shot without a solid lock or managing to have his reticule on your mech, and so the two c-erppc bolts did not converge, instead streaking out parallel to each other, one going wide left, that other being the one that hit. The fact that at least two, perhaps three areas on your mech's paper doll flashed, but the majority of the damage was just to the CT (just yellowed other areas due to the splash 2.5 to two areas), really seems to indicate that was the weapon that hit and that was the trajectory it followed, especially given how that enemy was then hiding behind the cap point when you turned around to confront him. Seems the most likely explanation and fits with that angle of the missed PPC beam that he had made that shot on you from behind, likely INTENDING to hit your mech in the back but instead it going high and not converging.

It is really hard to confirm this though for anyone you are asking to look at it, because again - sound is missing and as you turn around and close on that enemy at the cap point, you first have another mech inside the HPG confines targeted, then you finally target your enemy for a split second, yet cut the video right before someone can actually see the weapon load out he had, as your missiles are streaking inwards at him. Seeing that target info pop up could confirm that he had a second c-erppc, as most such builds run and would probably put the nail in the coffin of this conclusion, if one had seen dual c-erppc in his loadout.

Instead you show again the slow motion of that left wide PPC shot clearly missing, to drive home the point that it missed by a mile to the left yet you state you were shown as having been hit by c-erppc. I put to you that you were hit exactly by his RIGHT arm c-erppc that essentially hit while you were running uphill, yawed upward with your Jenner nose, twisted a little right too as you were turning and trying to get under cover around that corner/wall.

The version with sound is now up in this thread.

And this mech had 1 ER PPC and 2 SRM 6's equipped. You can see them towards the end of the vid

[Tarogato]

Darian DelFord, on 26 December 2015 - 10:35 PM, said:

Rushboar's Ping was 84, I would post the SS but to damn lazy. Funny thing is, in the end we both killed each other at the same time... rather funny actually.

Only 84 and you had like 70-something I think... heh. Definitely something to show Russ then, imo.

[Jun Watarase]

Theres no point showing hit reg videos to russ, because he will simply send them to Neema (which will take additional time). Show them to Neema.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

HSR.

What counts is what's on their screen not what's on yours.

[Mad Porthos]

Darian DelFord, on 26 December 2015 - 10:44 PM, said:

The version with sound is now up in this thread.

And this mech had 1 ER PPC and 2 SRM 6's equipped. You can see them towards the end of the vid

Yeah, I see that now as the video goes long enough to show target information gathered. Thanks for Posting of the full video with sound. To be clear, you post something on here and some may try to nay-say you for what ever reason, but some of us are just trying to look for the clearest answer and in many other cases it is not ALWAYS hit reg, or it is something involving a factor the person is unaware of. However, your clearer repost also shows that fella right there next to the base cap as you are approaching, whereas the previous shorter video was of a quality where I could barely even tell what the mech was until your final approach. With what the target info showed, yeah the one CERPPC meant my theory was wrong but some one else said something equally valid, that it might be HSR, because HSR is very much based on what the server decides the firer saw on screen, not what you saw - though it does have adjustment for other factors of ping and latency.

I think what they wanted HSR to do essentially was to make it so that people with horrible pings, did not have to fire so much at open air AHEAD of the mechs they want to kill, so that lag will register their shots. The HSR instead tries to figure, ok was this guy with horrible ping actually at least skilled enough to really be hitting what HE SAW ON HIS SCREEN. If he was, then they generally say, it's a hit, even though your own client which may be faster, or more "advanced" in the timeline and vector you are travelling, will show somethng like that ppc fly wide to your left, since it's drawing it's trajectory based on it's best timing it thought it missed. Sucks. Really sucks at time when it means that a shot came through impossible terrain, like a wall.

I'd sort of forgotten the HSR since I've been playing alot on North America and Europe and supposedly HSR works really well when the difference in ping between attacker and target is relatively low, but I remember being told it gets particularly more noticable on places like oceanic server, when some players are running from North America or Europe. The flip side of it is supposed to have meant also that players on Oceanic, even if they were 350ms behind NA, or EU players... if they saw someone on their screen and hit that spot on their screen, then their target was hurt, even though on the target's client they were already seemingly safe around a corner or dropped into a ravine. Plenty of times, it could mean when I was in something fast and light like a commando doing a weave in and out between rocks and outcroppings that gave cover on tourmaline, when full laser burns fired at where I was a third of a second ago might be drawn as coming out of the rock wall and hitting me when this was impossible. I think perhaps more recently though to cut down on weird things like that, they sometimes just skip the animating of the HSR shots that are determinted to have actually hit you but come from "impossible wall" angles, but still of course apply it to you as delayed flashing on the paper doll. Seems to me from what's shown and known on the subject that CERPPC shot did hit due to HSR, but your client zooming along showed and animated it as missing - as it would have if there had been no HSR algorythm.

Edited by Mad Porthos, 29 December 2015 - 01:36 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Jun Watarase, on 27 December 2015 - 09:02 AM, said:

Theres no point showing hit reg videos to russ, because he will simply send them to Neema (which will take additional time). Show them to Neema.

and pray tell who is Neema? What do they have to do with this? How can they help? Where can we find them?