118 replies to this topic

[Kraftwerkedup]

Ezekeel666, on 27 December 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

Nah I get your schtick. Read my other response.

I wouldnt pay for it, even if you lowered the prices to a penny. Theyre worthless. If you want to blame anyone, blame me. Im getting all the things, for free.

Im why digital goods are worthless. Dont blame StJobe. Blame me bro. If you want to say someones responsible for the high prices, its people like me who get 'all the things' for nothing. That means they have to charge what they charge to keep the lights on.

Ill be your effigy brah. Burn me.

[Noxcuse]

over 700 $ to mutch for an company kicking my *** in each balance patch

[Ezekeel666]

stjobe, on 27 December 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

Okay. I originally left those parts out because they are rather indicative of a less than stellar economic intelligence, but since you persist, I'll have to address them:


So you argue the following:
* People who spend money on MWO are fools
* They are fools because they enable PGI's monetization model
* PGI's monetization model is "godaweful [sic]" and "overpriced".
* If people stopped spending money on MWO PGI would have to adjust prices,
* Then the average player would find it more attractive.

Is that about the long and short of it? Now here's the problem:

PGI doesn't care about whether one whale brings in $1,000 or a hundred "average players" bring in $1,000 - they get their $1,000 either way.

There is zero guarantee that lowering prices would increase revenue; it might, but it might also do the exact opposite. It is self-evident that the monetization model PGI is currently employing is successful, or the game (and perhaps company) would have shut down already. If it works and it makes them enough money to do what they want to do, why change it?

Also, I'm not convinced that the "average player" agrees with your assessment of MWO's pricing model. Seeing as, you know, people seem to buy 'mech packs like they're going out of style. Us whales, we're not all that many.

So now, instead of calling people fools for paying for the game you (hopefully) play, perhaps you can show your brilliance by showing how YOU would guarantee that lowering prices would increase revenue by such an amount it would overcome the overhead of reworking the monetization model.

Because relying on a small number of whales is not a long term sustainable business model. Converting a new player to a whale is a nigh impossible task especially since this franchise is niche and most die-hard BT fans already are playing this game (or at least have checked it out). What you want in a F2P game is a low barrier for conversion which only works when the prices are reasonable for the average gamer. Any more questions?

Edited by Ezekeel666, 27 December 2015 - 12:03 PM.

[Kraftwerkedup]

Tell that to Versace.

I mean ok on a deeper level, youre blaming surplus value, on people who are willing to pay it.

I mean both Marx and Mises disagree with you there. Thats pretty strong when ideologically, they couldnt be farther apart. Youre barking up the wrong tree here.

These are digital goods. The only resources invested are time/wages/operating costs.

They can charge literally whatever they want, and probably sustain their business.


Oh and if 'Free' isnt within the realm of average gamers, then we gamers and the entire industry are in serious trouble.

Theres no such thing as a pay wall here. You can get 1,000 MC from events 5-8 times a year. Which is pretty much the same thing as a pre planned economy, or interventionist economics. If you dont go and get the stimulus package that they offer pretty much every month...well, thats because youre lazy. Go get your GR check bro.

Edited by Kraftwerkedup, 27 December 2015 - 12:08 PM.

[JC Daxion]

GrogX, on 27 December 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

I keep my MWO receipts in their own folder just to remind myself why I need to log back in and play from time to time. I can't count the number of times I've bought a month of premium time for one night of drunken MWO.

Mostly because I don't remember them very well

Lol... no shopping while drinking!!


PS, they now have day passes for 250MC.. put a sticky note on your computer to remind you for those nights.. only blow 250MC not 2500

Ezekeel666, on 27 December 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

Fools and their money are easily parted.

If you are looking for other interesting investment opportunities you guys might want to checkout Star Citizien. PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARP.

Please post what you have spent your money on for the last 5 years.... (your entire budget, because my guess is, you have tons of stuff i would think was foolish...) Don't judge others for their entertainment values..

People spend more on a 3 day vacation than any of these numbers i have seen... But i guess only fools go on vacation.. *sigh



Big thanks for all those do spend, It makes me have a great game.. and i can't wait to thank all those for the epic star citizens that is coming....

This fool will keep going out on sunday and drinking beer and eating wings.... I think that costs me more than what most people have posted they have spent.. So i guess only fools eat out at restaurants too.. Maybe i should start growing my own chickens and brewing my own beer... Ohh wait that would cost me far more in time, and land and sainity, than the 25 bucks i spend.. with a nice tip for the cute barmaid..

Kraftwerkedup, on 27 December 2015 - 11:32 AM, said:

I think all digital goods are sub 1$ value. I wouldnt give you 50 cents for a Gold Direwolf. I wont give you a quarter for a Top Dog, Oxide, or Grid Iron. I wont give you 10 cents for a color.

That hasnt stopped me from getting these things...having spent nothing...so why do you care what other people spend? If you want to spend 1,000 dollars on a Grid Iron...go for it.

Ill grind contests, events, and community run tournies for my stuff thank you. Then we can have fun shooting each others gundams.

Get over yourselves.

I get what you are saying... But take into account all that time you have spent.. Perhaps it is all fun, but perhaps it has not..

(not saying you.. just making a point) There are those that make in a single day, than what would take 1000 hours to earn.. Kinda states who the fool is now right? Someone priced out what they could earn in a weekend at one of the events.. It took something like 30 or 40 hours.. and calculated down to under .50 cents an hour... Was not even close to minimum wage pay to earn it all

Edited by JC Daxion, 27 December 2015 - 12:25 PM.

[stjobe]

Ezekeel666, on 27 December 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:

Because relying on a small number of whales is not a long term sustainable business model. Converting a new player to a whale is a nigh impossible task especially since this franchise is niche and most die-hard BT fans already are playing this game (or at least have checked it out). What you want in a F2P game is a low barrier for conversion which only works when the prices are reasonable for the average gamer. Any more questions?

Sure, I have some questions.

First off, where's your support for your claim that the "average player" has any problems whatsoever with MWO pricing? Some sure do, as certain as some don't, but why are you so certain the "average player" would spend any more if prices come down?

Secondly, the conversion rate generally is in the single-digit percentage even for wildly successful F2P games; the vast, vast majority of F2P players never pay anything ever. The current monetization seems to work insomuch as the whales seem content to keep buying packs, and most likely there's a lot of non-whales also buying packs, so again: Why change?

Finally, Steam. Steam packs, more precisely. Lower-priced, pick-your-pack-and-go. Perfect entry points, and once you've made a purchase, you're on the road to whaledom. See also: Weekend sales.

If you pay attention, the only thing you need to pay full price for is if you absolutely, positively must pre-order that new shiny 'mech pack. Everything else WILL come on sale sooner or later at half the price. Which is again, perfect conversion points.

So final question: What conversion points are you missing in MWO's monetization?

I mean, it does feel like you're just sore at not being able to afford everything you want - I admit that's just reading between the lines, but if so; welcome to the real world - and therefore lashing out at those that are, even though doing so might actually hurt the game more than it helps you actually gain anything.

[DaZur]

Rule #1 of MWO is never sum your investment....

[Kraftwerkedup]

JC Daxion, on 27 December 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

Lol... no shopping while drinking!!


PS, they now have day passes for 250MC.. put a sticky note on your computer to remind you for those nights.. only blow 250MC not 2500






Please post what you have spent your money on for the last 5 years.... (your entire budget, because my guess is, you have tons of stuff i would think was foolish...) Don't judge others for their entertainment values..

People spend more on a 3 day vacation than any of these numbers i have seen... But i guess only fools go on vacation.. *sigh



Big thanks for all those do spend, It makes me have a great game.. and i can't wait to thank all those for the epic star citizens that is coming....

This fool will keep going out on sunday and drinking beer and eating wings.... I think that costs me more than what most people have posted they have spent.. So i guess only fools eat out at restaurants too.. Maybe i should start growing my own chickens and brewing my own beer... Ohh wait that would cost me far more in time, and land and sainity, than the 25 bucks i spend.. with a nice tip for the cute barmaid..









I get what you are saying... But take into account all that time you have spent.. Perhaps it is all fun, but perhaps it has not..

(not saying you.. just making a point) There are those that make in a single day, than what would take 1000 hours to earn.. Kinda states who the fool is now right? Someone priced out what they could earn in a weekend at one of the events.. It took something like 30 or 40 hours.. and calculated down to under .50 cents an hour... Was not even close to minimum wage pay to earn it all

Yeah fortunately its almost always been fun. Theres been some events though that are real slogs, but those were mostly last year. They more or less have figured out how to make them less painful.

[Revis Volek]

Ezekeel666, on 27 December 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

Yes, they are fools with a lack of impuls control and/or too much disposable income who are responsible that PGI can continue with this godaweful monetization model selling overpriced stuff to whales instead of adjusting the prices to make it attractive to the average player. $5 for 1 out of 100 colours, $20 for 1 of 100 mechs, $5 for 1 of 100 patterns. Only a fool would support that nonsense.

So your broke and upset....understandable.


But you wont get far trying to tell others how to spend their money.

[JC Daxion]

Kraftwerkedup, on 27 December 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

Yeah fortunately its almost always been fun. Theres been some events though that are real slogs, but those were mostly last year. They more or less have figured out how to make them less painful.

Cool.. and yea you are right.. the events have been more fun... But honestly.. one of my favorite events was the Spoils go the victor, and i earned a victor! Not to say i want um all like that.. But that particular weekend i had the time, and enjoyed 3 days of trying to get the reward...

3+ days of slaving.. or an hour of work and bought the damn thing.. :grin:

[Kraftwerkedup]

I just dont get why someone would be upset that something that costs 30 dollars, doesnt cost 15 dollars, when with the tiniest effort, you can get the 30 dollar thing for free.

Just wait and play.

Its not like you cant get that Direwolf without the pack, and there really arent Heroes that are that much cooler than the main variants, and Champions just cut out a tiny, tiny fraction of yer mastering time.

And now mastering has been nerfed...so theres less reason to do it.

If you want/have the money to skip the grind, by all means, spend away. But you cant complain about the cost of something, when theres a line you can go stand in to get it for free. Were all going to see the movie. Who cares if some people paid to get seated first.

Thats why they work. So they can do this.

Id sort of understand it if the only way to get these mechs was to spend money...but its not...theres no reason to complain about the prices. I think the entire F2P model is stupid, but, thats my opinion. Clearly it works.

QVC works. I wont by anything from QVC either...but im not knocking people who do, unless they treat it like a heroin addiction and are ruining their lives by being addicted to something.

[Ezekeel666]

stjobe, on 27 December 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

Sure, I have some questions.

First off, where's your support for your claim that the "average player" has any problems whatsoever with MWO pricing? Some sure do, as certain as some don't, but why are you so certain the "average player" would spend any more if prices come down?

Secondly, the conversion rate generally is in the single-digit percentage even for wildly successful F2P games; the vast, vast majority of F2P players never pay anything ever. The current monetization seems to work insomuch as the whales seem content to keep buying packs, and most likely there's a lot of non-whales also buying packs, so again: Why change?

Finally, Steam. Steam packs, more precisely. Lower-priced, pick-your-pack-and-go. Perfect entry points, and once you've made a purchase, you're on the road to whaledom. See also: Weekend sales.

If you pay attention, the only thing you need to pay full price for is if you absolutely, positively must pre-order that new shiny 'mech pack. Everything else WILL come on sale sooner or later at half the price. Which is again, perfect conversion points.

So final question: What conversion points are you missing in MWO's monetization?

I mean, it does feel like you're just sore at not being able to afford everything you want - I admit that's just reading between the lines, but if so; welcome to the real world - and therefore lashing out at those that are, even though doing so might actually hurt the game more than it helps you actually gain anything.

Your disconnect from reality is strong if you cannot see that the average gamer judges the current pricing as unreasonable (read forums post here and on Steam and Steam reviews) and especially if you think that the Performance packs on Steam are a 'lower-priced' 'perfect entry point' for new players all while these packs are actually the price of multiple AAA games. Guess that excessive disposable income of yours is to blame and I can only suggest to take a walk in the real world sometimes. You might learn a thing or two on how things are going for the average middleclass person with family.

[Kraftwerkedup]

JC Daxion, on 27 December 2015 - 12:31 PM, said:

Cool.. and yea you are right.. the events have been more fun... But honestly.. one of my favorite events was the Spoils go the victor, and i earned a victor! Not to say i want um all like that.. But that particular weekend i had the time, and enjoyed 3 days of trying to get the reward...

3+ days of slaving.. or an hour of work and bought the damn thing.. :grin:

Yup. I got my Victor, Raven, Hunchie, two Centurions, Cataphract and the mechbays that come with them. Just from playing some matches during the events. Weeee.

So im gonna spend my money I slaved over at work (fortunately im a musician so its not terribly unpleasant to work) on something I can get for free, because im impatient...then im gonna yell at other people who spent more of their hard earned money than I did and then blame them for the prices PGI sets...

COOL STORY BRO. lol

These posts come up all the time im always just blown away.

Really? So if everyone stopped buying things they lower their prices, then magically more people are going to spend money to make up for the revenue their losing, so they can make the exact same revenue theyre making now....

This is why we cant have nice things heh.

Ezekeel666, on 27 December 2015 - 12:32 PM, said:

Your disconnect from reality is strong if you cannot see that the average gamer

Yet, theres 9 individuals in this thread telling you youre wrong.

Lets assume you know how averages work....whats the average gamer saying RIGHT NOW IN THIS THREAD?

[Ezekeel666]

DarthRevis, on 27 December 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

So your broke and upset....understandable.


But you wont get far trying to tell others how to spend their money.

I am not broke. Not that there is any shame in having no money. I am also not upset since whether MWO fails or not is not really my concern. I am just saying my opinion and I will continue to do so. Do not like it? Go pound sand.

[Kraftwerkedup]

But you came into our house yelling about this, then tell us to pound sand when we disagree with you.

Dude, uh, youre the one that should be kicking rocks. No one agrees with you.

The whale, the average gamer, and the commie freeloader, all are telling you youre wrong.

Edited by Kraftwerkedup, 27 December 2015 - 12:40 PM.

[Ted Wayz]

Ezekeel666, on 27 December 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

Yes, they are fools with a lack of impuls control and/or too much disposable income who are responsible that PGI can continue with this godaweful monetization model selling overpriced stuff to whales instead of adjusting the prices to make it attractive to the average player. $5 for 1 out of 100 colours, $20 for 1 of 100 mechs, $5 for 1 of 100 patterns. Only a fool would support that nonsense.

I think they will shift their model. As I said the TT crowd is no longer their target audience so I am guessing we have seen the last of the mega packs. Think we will see all the prices come down soon.

[LordNothing]

ive spent far far more than pgi deserves. i do not recommend it.

[JC Daxion]

Ezekeel666, on 27 December 2015 - 12:32 PM, said:

Your disconnect from reality is strong if you cannot see that the average gamer judges the current pricing as unreasonable (read forums post here and on Steam and Steam reviews) and especially if you think that the Performance packs on Steam are a 'lower-priced' 'perfect entry point' for new players all while these packs are actually the price of multiple AAA games. Guess that excessive disposable income of yours is to blame and I can only suggest to take a walk in the real world sometimes. You might learn a thing or two on how things are going for the average middleclass person with family.

And he is the one with the disconnect? steam users crying about over priced, when 90% of the bad reviews are... well it's a good game but not worth more than 5 bucks.. Middle class woes? You have any idea how many people think middle class is actually rich?????

I do have to wonder if you own a cell phone though.... if so can i blame you now that i can no longer make .10 cent phone calls?


(edit.. your post history just told me all i need to know... Have a nice day....)

Edited by JC Daxion, 27 December 2015 - 12:54 PM.

[Kraftwerkedup]

Ezekeel666, on 27 December 2015 - 12:43 PM, said:

Don't you realize that I have stopped talking to you

You just quoted my post, after reading it, then responding to it. Thats a conversation. I think its fairly clear here who the delusional person is. I hope you enjoy your 24 hour sit out.

Obviously though, as it always does around these parts, itll take a few days for Patience to read it, and ban you for a day.

Calling people drunk, dumb, dumbasses, etc, is not how you get your point across.

Look, obviously youre upset at capitalism. I get it. Ive been there. Youre saying StJobe and people like that, spend too much, thus justifying a failing business model (you must have seen 'that' southpark episode).

Unfortunately for you, you dont realize that the same business model, is why there were snakeoil salesmen, and why they made a freaking killing, until it was actually made illegal.

So unless you want to get bill against this business model in its entirety passed, it will always be successful. There will always be a casino. There will always be aftermarket parts for cars. There will always be crappy local bands who have merch. There will always be a QVC.

Theres nothing wrong with it, its human nature. No one has any idea what you want PGI to actually do other than "lower prices bro, then more magical people will buy your thing".

Then you dont understand economics, apparently dont know what Surplus Value is, or Marx or Mises....so why should ANYONE LISTEN TO YOU.

Youve got a bunch of people posting how theyve spent 1,000 dollars. Others saying theyve only spent 50 or 60. Ive spent nothing.

Yes, their pricing scheme is completely insane, but, it works. It would work the same way, if they adjusted it. They wont be more successful if cbill for MC valuation was the same as MC for mech, or other differentials that are completely weird. "Fixing" it to your specifications will make no difference.

[stjobe]

Ezekeel666, on 27 December 2015 - 12:32 PM, said:

Your disconnect from reality is strong if you cannot see that the average gamer judges the current pricing as unreasonable (read forums post here and on Steam and Steam reviews) and especially if you think that the Performance packs on Steam are a 'lower-priced' 'perfect entry point' for new players all while these packs are actually the price of multiple AAA games. Guess that excessive disposable income of yours is to blame and I can only suggest to take a walk in the real world sometimes. You might learn a thing or two on how things are going for the average middleclass person with family.

Final question for you: What if I'm the "average gamer" and you're not?

Also, Kraftwerkedup? You'd laugh yourself silly if I stated what my actual political leanings are - ever heard of a guy called Alexander Berkman?

But when in Rome...